Alternative Medicine?

I grew up with the best insurance you could get. Therefore, if we were sick we went to the doc. The doc prescribed meds. We took them. We got better. We didn’t give it a second thought. My wife grew up without decent insurance, when she even had any. They didn’t go to the doc unless it was absolutely necessary. Fast forward a lifetime, my wife and I have kids. Our insurance is, well, adequate to be generous. Going to the doc is expensive. So, when our kids get sick we aren’t quick to run to the doc (I think that’s a good thing, but not really the point of the post). My wife, not having grown up with good medical coverage is quick to look for homeopathic remedies. This is something I’m not familiar with, nor am I totally comfortable with just because it’s new to me.
But, I have to admit I’ve seen it work….I think. Here’s 3 instances where I think it’s worked at least as well as ‘conventional’ medicine in the last few months:
1) Some of you might remember (naturally you do, aren’t I the center of your universe?) a few months ago I shot a ground hog and the scope bit me above the eye. It was a deep cut. I thought I’d need stitches but my wife gave me, I think it was arnica? The next morning the cut was closed up 100%. Within a day or two it was almost invisible. No visible scar today.

2) My wife was diagnosed with gall stones Friday. She was in incredible pain, it was her third bout this year. The doc said once the inflammation goes down the gall bladder should be removed. The ultrasound showed stones. She did some research and has been on a diet of just apple juice, beet juice, and raw veggies. She thinks she’s passed one already. They pass through the, uh, back door so it’s not as obvious as passing through the keyhole of the front door. The pain is gone and she feels great. She will get another ultrasound to be sure.

3) My son came home from school complaining of an ear ache yesterday. Within a few hours he was crying more than he was quiet. Wasn’t sleeping due to the pain. My wife have him a remedy, something for the pain (Tylenol), and garlic oil drops in his hears. I thought he’d be going to the doc today. He woke up dancing around the house saying he felt great. Instead of the docs, he’s back as school.

I have to say, I’m surprised this natural stuff seems to work.

Homeopathic stuff is pure bullE36 M3, the bullE36 M3tiest area of "alternative" medicine. The placebo effect is real and fairly powerful though.

Now sometimes an old folk remedy turns out to really work and is used in alternative medicine before "mainstream" medicine starts doing it, but those are rare fringe cases. For every one case of periwinkle tea or cranberry juice there are 99 cases of tiger penis.

BTW I'd just like to tell everyone not to take any of that silver crap. Look up Argyria. My grandmother turned herself a little bit grey thanks to this stuff advertised on a Christian TV channel before I got wind of it and told her of the dangers.

Thousands of years of field testing went into what society thinks of as 'outdated' medicine today. I wouldn't suggest that we go back to bleeding patients to balance their humors, but traditional remedies are worth objective consideration.

There are home remedies that can be helpful. It's where the basics of a lot of medicine comes from. Some of the most powerful meds out there are plant-based (i.e. taxane type chemotherapies) so there are herbs/extracts, etc. that can have a medicinal use. There are also no FDA regulations on supplements that mean anything - so unless you produce your own, there is effectively no quality control for any supplement/herbs you buy - it might have what's listed as the main ingredient, maybe not and no telling what the dosage is. Without the quality control piece, any claims that it works has no validity at least on the science front.

In my line of work I have met a lot of people who tried to treat themselves for cancer. The hard truth is that precious few of these people survive their decision. Home remedies for colds, flu, cuts, bruises - no problem. Home remedies for appendicitis, cancer = fatal. Gallstones - if juicing works for her, great, just don't let her suffer hoping things get better if they really aren't.

I don't know exactly where the line between natural, homeopathic, and folk remedies is. I don't really think most of what I think are homeopathic remedies work, but I can't deny the lack of scar tissue above my eye. It was very deep.
The garlic oil did help my son. He's 5, so that's all he knew was mom was putting drops in his hears. He was clearly in pain last night, he's in school now with no issues. That's not the placebo effect.
My wife's gall stones will be a big deal for me to see. If they are no stones that will speak volumes since the doc said they don't go away and are not passed.
The jury is still out in my book but I'm not going to make the blanket statements I used to make "If the doc doesn't prescribe it, it's crap".

None of the items on that list actually seem to be homeopathic - traditional homeopathy is to start with something that would CAUSE the symptoms in a healthy person, and dilute it to the point where you probably don't even have one molecule in it. If you're dealing with something concentrated, it's not real homeopathy. (And is a lot more likely to actually do something, good or bad.)

Although herbal medicine and homeopathy can look similar, they're not the same. The main problems with herbal medicine is that it's not very well regulated. It sounds like your wife is more into the latter.

I takedicine for what is absolutely necessary. Any possibly life threatening disorder or one that may cause harm to someone else such as my RBD.

If I'm not in terrible pain or at risk of further injuries, I take care of it without mainstream medication. I don't take pain killers. I still have the pain killers in the cabinet from last time I had a tooth pulled. If there is a (legal) herb I can use or another 100% natural.

The reason I do it this way? Side effects from western medication.

DrBoost wrote: I don't know exactly where the line between natural, homeopathic, and folk remedies is.

Natural medicine doesn't necessarily mean "alternative" but it's often used as a code-word for it. In theory there's no reason natural medicine couldn't be totally legit...it just wouldn't benefit from all those unnatural scientific advances.

Folk makes no such distinction and is another way of saying "unproven old wives' tales that may or may not be true."

Homeopathy is such a bunch of batE36 M3 insanity that the Scientologists have adopted it. One of the basics of homeopathy is that the more you dilute something, the more powerful it becomes. The sheer stupidity of it is protested annually in a mass homeopathic overdose suicide attempt in which nobody has ever been killed.

"Back in the olden days" doctors had it pretty good. Someone comes to you sick, you dance around a little, blow a little smoke, chant some, give them a plant or two and send them on their way. Half died. Half got better. You claim healing the half that got better and the other half was (pick a god)'s will. We aren't really set to accept that level of success anymore.

As for Mrs. Boost, I can see that a diet completely void of fats, such as the various juices, will give the gall bladder time to rest and heal itself. No fats, no bile needed, right? The stones aren't going away. Best (realistic) case: More pain further down the road. It (gall bladder) can come out now or it can come out later.

oldtin wrote: There are also no FDA regulations on supplements that mean anything - so unless you produce your own, there is effectively no quality control for any supplement/herbs you buy - it might have what's listed as the main ingredient, maybe not and no telling what the dosage is. Without the quality control piece, any claims that it works has no validity at least on the science front.

Actually there are companies that voluntarily choose to have a 3rd party validate the products in their supplements are in fact actually there, in the amount stated and do not include anything that isn't on the label.

Advocare is one and I've found their products have helped my wife and I. To be honest, tart of the reason Advocare have a 3rd party company check their products is that they sponsor many athletes (Drew Brees, etc) and causing them issues with officials due to failing a drug test or worse, causing a health issue is not something they want to happen.

However, people that go to GNC or the healthcare section of their super market looking for vitamins, etc. and expect to get anything useful haven't done their research. If they did they might find that one should still get off their butts and workout (just go for a walk at least) and not pound fast food and processed food down their gullets.

As to Natural remedies, there certainly are some valid things around (look at tylenol and where it originally came from) and there are just as many that are pure BS or placebo. The trick is finding real scientific evidence that proves those solutions work.

The word we use for "alternative" treatments that work is "medicine". You don't have to go to the doctor for every scrape, bruise or fever.

However, in my opinion, if a high fever develops or somebody is sick for more than 5 days, it is time to see a doctor, insurance or not.

For gall stones, maybe she can have the stones pulverized and then change her diet completely FOREVER (Like Dr. Hess said) to keep the symptoms down.

Don't be too quick to blow them off. When I was a kid I had warts on my knees, elbows and hands. I made many, many trips to the doctor for them to be burned, frozen or cut off. We tried every known OTC and prescription topical treatment known to man. They always came back after several months. My grandmother suggested that vinegar would solve the problem. At that point my mom was ready to try just about anything, so for a week I went to bed smelling like vinegar with soaked bandages all over me. I haven't had any warts since.

Some of those old wives tales work and in a non life or death situation, I'm willing to give them a try.

DrBoost wrote: The garlic oil did help my son. He's 5, so that's all he knew was mom was putting drops in his hears. He was clearly in pain last night, he's in school now with no issues. That's not the placebo effect.

Hi DrBoost,

Please keep in mind that most people will get sick many times in their lives and in every case except one, they’ll recover. As a result, we’re presented with many opportunities to wrongfully assume causality after observing what is nothing more than a simple correlation.

I’m thrilled your son’s ear ache went away but we’ll never know what his outcome would have been had no action been taken. Additionally, from your son’s prospective, your wife is every bit as capable (perhaps even more so) of creating a placebo effect as a doctor.

I've had very good results with garlic-infused olive oil as a treatment for an ear infection. My son was getting them three or four times a year. Sometimes he would end a run of antibiotics and the symptoms would return. The doc would prescribe a different antibiotic. I was not happy with the "success ratio" and did a little research. Garlic oil, which I would call a "folk remedy" is more effective in my experience.

turboswede wrote: Actually there are companies that voluntarily choose to have a 3rd party validate the products in their supplements are in fact actually there, in the amount stated and do not include anything that isn't on the label. Advocare is one and I've found their products have helped my wife and I. To be honest, tart of the reason Advocare have a 3rd party company check their products is that they sponsor many athletes (Drew Brees, etc) and causing them issues with officials due to failing a drug test or worse, causing a health issue is not something they want to happen. However, people that go to GNC or the healthcare section of their super market looking for vitamins, etc. and expect to get anything useful haven't done their research. If they did they might find that one should still get off their butts and workout (just go for a walk at least) and not pound fast food and processed food down their gullets. As to Natural remedies, there certainly are some valid things around (look at tylenol and where it originally came from) and there are just as many that are pure BS or placebo. The trick is finding real scientific evidence that proves those solutions work.

Yes, you can follow GMP protocols and pay for verification - it's still a manufacturer paying someone to test/claim it is what they say and the moral hazard that comes with paying for your own verification. Not the same as regulations or force of law, but good that they have some standards.

These guys have interesting listings for home remedies.

mguar wrote: In reply to DrBoost: .. a doctor has spent 10 years dedicated to learning to prescribe medications and perform procedures he/she is paid for. Then, for the rest of his/her career they get samples and golf outings paid for by the pharma companies

Fixed it for you

mguar wrote: They are your kids. treat accordingly..

Yeah, these are my kids and I'm not quick to take a chance. But at the same time, I'd rather not pump them full of meds that won't do anything. How many times has someone been prescribed something for a virus? Last I checked meds don't do much to a virus.
Between my wife and I, I think we strike a pretty good balance. But I really appreciate the links posted. Since my wife is in favor of natural, homeopathic, folk, or what ever treatments I need to understand it.

My mother would lay me down with a hot water bottle and some olive oil in the ear canal for my earaches. My wife would head to the doc for antibiotics.

Both treatments fixed the earache. I like the option of leaving it alone, treating the pain, and giving nature a chance to fix things. More often than not, nothing is just as effective, it seems to me.

I grew up with almost unlimited access to a doc, mom's an RN and was the office nurse for one of two surgeons in town. She used to bring home our shots and give them at home. Well, except for the tetnus shot that I routinely got for some stunt I pulled that didn't work and ended up with a trip to the doc. She grew up in the Ozark mountains that didn't have much doc access. She would often combine modern medicine and the old country remedies. I have what I would call very good medical now being retired military. But still call a family member to double check diagnosis and treatment. Mom's retired now but my sister is a LPN and lab tech working those medical machines that do scans and my daughter-in-law is a physicians assistance. Her dad is a podiatrist. So lots of access to medical information.

GameboyRMH wrote: Homeopathic stuff is pure bullE36 M3, the bullE36 M3tiest area of "alternative" medicine. The placebo effect is real and fairly powerful though.

CBC television in Canada did an investigation of Homeopathic "medicine". Stuff is pure BS. http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2011/01/14/marketplace-homeopathy.html While lots of folk remedies can be effective, the supplement/ naturalpathic stuff is nothing more than dangerous fraud. Just ask my 2 of my inlaws that spent $50k on alternative "medicines" and are 6 feet under from conditions that could have been successfully treated by modern medicine.

Toyman01 wrote: Don't be too quick to blow them off. When I was a kid I had warts on my knees, elbows and hands. I made many, many trips to the doctor for them to be burned, frozen or cut off. We tried every known OTC and prescription topical treatment known to man. They always came back after several months. My grandmother suggested that vinegar would solve the problem. At that point my mom was ready to try just about anything, so for a week I went to bed smelling like vinegar with soaked bandages all over me. I haven't had any warts since. Some of those old wives tales work and in a non life or death situation, I'm willing to give them a try.

I had warts on all of my knuckles, both hands. My Mom said her sister could remove them. I ran into her at a family reunion about ten years ago and asked her about it. She grabbed my hands looked me in the eye (which made me very uncumfortable, like she was looking into my soul) made a couple wierd grunting noises and told me not to think about them and they would be gone. A week later I thought about it looked at my hands and they where gone. Haven't had one since.

There are reasons why people are living longer, healthier lives. "Alternative medicine" isn't one of those reasons.

Sounds like most of you guys are in favor of making pharmaceutical companies money rather than try a home remedy on a non-threatening ailment.

Bunch of pill poppers.

In reply to mguar:

Well, that was 30+ years ago so I'm not too worried about it, and the grandmother that suggested the vinegar died of old age at 99 so I'm not too worried about that either. The only real history we have is for dementia so I'm hoping the smoking will kill me first. That's what got my other grandmother at the young age of 87.

Monty: How are you doing today?

Old Man: Oh, I'm slipping gradually into senility.

Monty: Really? Do you consider that a good thing or abad thing?

Old Man: Well, it's a mixed bag. It's good in the sense that I can take walks in my underwear. I can give small children the middle finger. But as long as I look happy while I'm doing it, people just assume I'm senile.

Monty:Yeah, so what's the bad?

Old Man: Well, sometimes I give small children the middle finger and don't realize I'm doing it until someone slaps me. So I really am going senile.

Appleseed wrote: Sounds like most of you guys are in favor of making pharmaceutical companies money rather than try a home remedy on a non-threatening ailment. Bunch of pill poppers.

I don't like homeopathy, but home remedies can be another story. There's good and bad home remedies out there. If I've got a sore throat, I usually use a salt water gargle for it instead of an OTC medicine; it seems to work just as well.

Just keep in mind that a lot of the "natural" treatment products out there are made by companies with at least as much greed as pharmaceutical companies but operating under almost none of the rules and regulations.