Am I about to get car dealer berkeleyed?

As I said in my other thread, I've made a verbal agreement to buy a '13 Sonic from a dealer in Phoenix.

I was fixing to pay cash, but the money is tied up in the market and the market is down, so I wanted to take out a small loan for a short time, hoping the market comes back.

My Credit Union wanted to see a Purchase Agreement in order to finalize the loan.

The dealer emailed me a scan of a Purchase Agreement, dated 1/10/16. It's mostly filled out, the important info is in place, but it isn't signed by anyone. Hmmm.

I went to visit their website, and the asking price of the car has increased 30%, from $9988 to $12,988!!

I have this horrible sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that when I fly down there Friday, they're going to tell me that...

The Purchase Agreement isn't signed, or it's expired, or for some other reason it's not valid.

And the price has gone up 30%

And if I don't like the new price I can pound sand...

And I'm going to be stuck at some car dealership in Scottsdale with no hope but to get a cab back to the airport and pay whatever exorbitant cost of a last-minute, one-way fare back to Vegas is.

Am I right or wrong to be freaking out?

Call the salesman you've been working with and tell him your bank won't accept the PA without signature, name, and title of authorized dealer person. If they balk at that, then you bail.

Quick answer: How do you know if a car dealer is berkeleying you over? Answer: He's doing business with you

Sorry that's all I know, but it works well as a rule of thumb

trust your gut. Get them to sign the dang document. Just like angrycorvair says.

If you do get out there and get berked, call a local reporter and ask them for a ride to the airport.

Stop doing it by email. Talk to an actual person with a name. Get the docs signed.

EvanR wrote: I was fixing to pay cash, but the money is tied up in the market and the market is down, so I wanted to take out a small loan for a short time, hoping the market comes back. ... The dealer emailed me a scan of a Purchase Agreement, dated 1/10/16. It's mostly filled out, the important info is in place, but it isn't signed by anyone. Hmmm.

Web site "asking price" is a negotiating point, it doesn't necessarily mean anything. Call 'em up, ask them to send you a signed purchase agreement with the agreed-upon price. If they don't, walk.

As for the original point though, don't assume the market is coming back anytime soon. To me this feels an awful lot like the winter of 2000 -- market was at a high, things were booming, now the market is down 10%, lots of people are assuming it's just a brief hiccup but there's this undercurrent of worry... Taking a loan instead of selling could turn out to be a stupid idea if things don't recover until 2020.

codrus wrote: As for the original point though, don't assume the market is coming back anytime soon. To me this feels an awful lot like the winter of 2000 -- market was at a high, things were booming, now the market is down 10%, lots of people are assuming it's just a brief hiccup but there's this undercurrent of worry... Taking a loan instead of selling could turn out to be a stupid idea if things don't recover until 2020.

Any short-term market investment is always a gamble.

The math is like this... I put $7k in to an S&P 500 ETF about a year ago. Figuring in for the dividend already paid, combined with the market loss, it's now worth about $6750.

The Credit Union is giving a 2.99% "simple interest", four-year loan. If I hold the loan for the full four years, the total interest will be $435.

So yeah, if it takes 4 years for the S&P500 to bounce back, it would be smarter for me to take the loss now, costing $250 vs. $435.

It's not a lot of money either way, but I'm willing to take this gamble. I think this is a short-term drop in the market, but your guess is as good as mine.

Get the doc/paperwork/dealer fees in advance and in total as well.

jamscal wrote: Get the doc/paperwork/dealer fees in advance and in total as well.

Oh, that's all on the purchase agreement already. But if they didn't sign it, its a piece of paper, not a legally binding document.

Here's a '15 Sonic with a manny tranny local to me, for $11,987 NMNA:

http://raydennisonchevy.com/details/2015-Chevrolet-Sonic-Pekin-IL/3935811?cid=7

iadr wrote: Stock market? read zerohedge.com Also educate yourself on the damage going public does- to the businesses, the staff, and the industry that business is in. Being in the stock market is immoral. All that aside, I'm calling it: Huge drop Tuesday and dropping through the week.

How does this, umm questionable "advice", relate to the OP?

The_Jed wrote: Here's a '15 Sonic with a manny tranny local to me, for $11,987 NMNA:

Nice price on that. More odd to see a sedan with a stick than a hatch.

I don't do trunks, though.

have a local dealer do a trade with the dealer that has the car you want, then buy it from them.. that way you can actually touch, feel, and taste the car before committing more than a couple of gallons of gas to get it..

I wouldn't be freaking, I'd just be walking. Not worth freaking over.

Your verbal agreement isn't worth the air it was floated on. The 30% increase is more real. If it's still worthwhile to you at that 30% price hike, fine, go for it. If not, go find something else.

It wouldn't bother me all that much. I've seen this several times in cars I call about, and been in the exact same situation. The price I see on Autotrader is $15k, but the morning after I call, it's suddenly $18k. I forget the exact numbers now, but when I called on my wife's minivan we discussed and negotiated on the price that was on the website. The next morning, the price on Autotrader had jumped. However, I had a scanned agreement in my hands from the dealer. I don't know why they jacked it up on Autotrader and I didn't really care. They honored the agreement and they even delivered the van to us for a ridiculously cheap price. If it'll make you feel better, get them to sign the agreement they sent you. I'm not saying to just blindly trust them, but if you've got a written agreement and you're not getting a really bad vibe from them, I wouldn't get overly concerned.

The_Jed wrote: Here's a '15 Sonic with a manny tranny local to me, for $11,987 NMNA: http://raydennisonchevy.com/details/2015-Chevrolet-Sonic-Pekin-IL/3935811?cid=7

Evan - you're really doing a fly & drive for a used Sonic?

The one Jed posted makes a lot more sense. Brand new leftover. 0 miles. Full factory warranty. New car financing, which is usually cheaper than used. Hell... talk to your local Chevy dealer - they may be able to work out shipping the car to Vegas vs the expense and time of doing a fly & drive...

They aren't screwing you yet, but they will if given the chance. They jacked the price rather than taking it down or marking it sold. If someone walks in with what they're now asking, your deal is voided by the non-signed documents and they get to make a ton more on their new sucker.

Tell them to pound sand. Do not sign any purchase agreements before personally inspecting the car. Or make your agreement contingent upon passing your inspection. Fly & Drive is usually a bend over deal, they have you up against a wall and your berry's firmly in hand squeezing and smiling.

Junkyard_Dog wrote: hey jacked the price rather than taking it down or marking it sold. If someone walks in with what they're now asking, your deal is voided by the non-signed documents and they get to make a ton more on their new sucker.

This is what I figured too.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

iadr wrote: Stock market? read zerohedge.com Also educate yourself on the damage going public does- to the businesses, the staff, and the industry that business is in. Being in the stock market is immoral. All that aside, I'm calling it: Huge drop Tuesday and dropping through the week.

How does this, umm questionable "advice", relate to the OP?

Yeah, nothing like depending on conspiracy theories written by someone convicted of insider trading to help you manage your retirement funds. That's a sure fire winner!

well, they DO know the ends and outs of the trading game

foxtrapper wrote: I wouldn't be freaking, I'd just be walking. Not worth freaking over.

I'd give the dealer a chance to sign the original purchase agreement first. If they balk at that, then I'd walk.

Ian F wrote:

The_Jed wrote: Here's a '15 Sonic with a manny tranny local to me, for $11,987 NMNA: http://raydennisonchevy.com/details/2015-Chevrolet-Sonic-Pekin-IL/3935811?cid=7

Evan - you're really doing a fly & drive for a used Sonic? The one Jed posted makes a lot more sense. Brand new leftover. 0 miles. Full factory warranty. New car financing, which is usually cheaper than used. Hell... talk to your local Chevy dealer - they may be able to work out shipping the car to Vegas vs the expense and time of doing a fly & drive...

I flew from Philly to Atlanta for a 4-year-old Neon with almost 50k on the clock. It was worth it.

That being said, I'd buy the new Sonic too.

EvanR wrote:

The_Jed wrote: Here's a '15 Sonic with a manny tranny local to me, for $11,987 NMNA:

Nice price on that. More odd to see a sedan with a stick than a hatch. I don't do trunks, though.

I agree about the trunk thing, I was looking for a hatch when I stumbled onto that one. If you change your mind, and we can mesh our schedules, I can supply shuttle service from P.I.A. to the lot and/or around town, if needed/wanted.

As much as I don't like trunks, that Sonic sedan is a smoking deal for a new car..

Okay, after teaching them remotely how to operate a scanner, we have the correctly-signed document. Off to the Credit Union tomorrow!