Am I really unemployable???

Well, I've been out of work since August of '08 with just a short job in there in the beginning of '09. I've been applying for work, in the beginning it was anything that I know I can do but I realized I am competing against folks that have been doing the same job for years. Of course what employer would hire a guy that can do the job after some training over a guy that can hit the ground running? I understand that logic. So, for the last year + I've only been applying for jobs that I am 80% or more qualified for (typically 95%). I've only been called back for 2 interviews in person and one on the phone (one of those interviews was just a formality so they could hire someone they already had in mind) And yes I do the follow-up calls/emails/smoke signals bribes after the initial application and interview.
Now comes the rant:
I can't get a $(#*@ job!! I am one of the "unemployable" according to yahoo. I've applied for jobs as a mechanic (I'm ASE certified and have 5 years in a dealership that stopped about 7 or 8 years ago). I was told that I have had "professional" jobs since leaving the dealership and he thinks I'll just work there long enough to get a "better" job. Well prick, it's been nearly 2 years and that "better" job hasn't come along so even if you were right I'd still be there getting crap done for you. Then I've applied for jobs that I have done in the past, with years experience and can't get them because I don't have a degree. HUH!?!? I can't get a "lesser" job as a mechanic because I'm too professional, and I can't get a "professional job" because I ain't smart enough? Case in point, I just interviewed 2 weeks ago for a job as a technical writer/trainer. The company in question (company A) just purchased a chunk of business from company B. The job I was laid off form 2 years ago was Technical Writer for Company B. So, I am applying for a job that I have done, with the exact same freaking product that I have years of experience with. The only training I would have needed was Company A specific things like expense reports and toilet paper usage guidlines.
I don't think I could have been more qualified............except I don't have a degree. I did the job for years and did it very well but I don't have a degree to say I can do it.
What the heck am I supposed to do? I have a wife and 3 kids to support. The funny thing is I've been supporting them by doing side jobs here at home but I suppose that's too "professional" for a shop to consider hiring me as a mechanic huh?

That "needing a degree" stuff is total BS for most jobs. In IT the HR managers always look for it, even if you're applying to be the toner change/help desk monkey, because they think it "shows commitment" rolleyes

Stop whipping out your Giant Purple Snorklewacker during job interviews

I suggest the following training video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4rSZP0nNCc

I have a big fancy printer and nifty graphic software. Where would you like your degree from?

Your situation is VERY difficult. My wife was in the same situation for 5 years. The biggest problem with the job market (in any industry) right now is there are so many people competing for the same jobs. So companies can hire senior level people and pay them entry level salaries. It may not be that you're over or under qualified, it may be that they can hire someone with your experience for half the price. The whole thing with Company A and B is simply this, they don't want to hire you because you did work there before. They probably think that there is something inherently bad about you which is why you were laid off in the first place, but of course they can't tell you that because it would be illegal, but that is the reason.

Couple of suggestions and I apologize if they don't help.

1. I don't know where you live, but if you could apply to jobs in other areas (aka out of town or out of state) you may get better results. Yes relocating is very traumatic, but if it means a good gig it could be worth it.

2. You mentioned doing side jobs from home so maybe you could expand that and create your own small business. It may not make you as much cash in the short term but in the long term it could work out. If you ever thought of having your own business, now is the time to try it. Do some research but there may be some federal, state and/or local programs to help you out.

3. Is there a different niche in your industry you could move into? You say you are ASE certified and worked as a mechanic, then as as technical writer. Could you use/combine that experience to move into the manufacturing, marketing or some other related area of your industry?

4. Lastly, and this is a last resort, lie about having a degree. I did it to get my first job and no one checked. Ever. Hey desperate times call for desperate measures.

PM sent

You have so many attributes and talents. Is there any possibilty that you can find a nich market to launch your own business? After 35 years in electronis security, I was working for the WORST boss in the world. Told him to take this job and shove it. Yeah, I had been making plans, putting plans inplace, when the time was right just pulled the trigger. Strange nich market, West Indies, but it has worked out well. I can only suggest you try the same. There are opportunities out there. Just takes dedication and persistance to make it work. Export puts you in a whole new world, and car guys are everywhere.

Thanks for the tips folks. I am running my own business but it's a rather seasonal thing. I actually have figured out a niche to beat the seasonalness thing, but it's a new business so it's sloooooow.
And yes, I have thought about lying about a degree. I mean how kood they no I dont has a degre?

I would say that if it looks like your business(es) are developing, I'd focus my energy on that. Ultimately you'll be relying on your own skills and marketing ability and not on another company's whims.

DrBoost wrote: I mean how kood they no I dont has a degre?

They would call the university on your resume and check with the registration office. It's more common then you would think. When I was in HR we would do it all the time.

Also Google yourself. The companies do it. Check to see if there is anything. Even some dope with your name posting on message boards can have an impact.

Another thing that could help you is to not have a beard or gray hair and don't mention that you have kids, or a wife for that matter unless asked.

With so many fish in the pool companies can be this selective and are.

right now, there are so many people available for jobs that they are probably more likely to take the person that will work for less, even if it means that they have to train them. i'm in the same boat- i made too much money at a job that i quit 4 years ago after 9 years of working there. potential new employers think that i expect to get paid that much now. screw it- i'm making money on scrap iron and fixing cars on the side right now and waiting for a job that i want to do that someone is willing to pay me to do.

I feel your pain. Really! I was unemployed twice for 6 months each time. I have two college degrees and was hearing the same thing you are: too much experience, made too much money in the past,... great resume, but we have nothing to offer you.

I'm guessing some your problem may be you live in Michigan. I think you MI folks here have covered the job situation in that state.

There are some small colleges that do offer degrees that take into account life experience etc. They aren't all completely a diploma mill. Many have classes at night or on-line classes. I know any college is going to cost $$$, but community colleges may be worth a look. .

If you think you are unemployable, then you are.

Don't take no for an answer and use this phrase constantly "Whatever it takes"

I sold a house in the depths of the worst housing market ever, changed jobs in the worst job market ever, and got a bump in salary/big promotion.. Just be too stupid to give up...

Just throwing this out there, as I've seen it help a lot of people in similar situations: Any golf courses you could caddy at? Make money, and you get the chance to meet some people who could possibly be in positions to offer you jobs.

flip cars

We just hired a degreed mechanical engineer for what I am guessing based on what he told me is the high side of $15/hr. The job market sucks. I am glad I got in when I did, right before the bust.

grimmelshanks wrote: flip cars

I've flipped three and have yet to see a dime, but that was before people video taped such things for the interweb.

I think its just a matter of time till folks like myself and Dr Boost start a revolt and begin an education discrimination campaign. Nuttin against you college educated folks but all a degree proves is you can take tests. I can prove that without loosing 4 years of my life. I've been lucky that 12 years of military training and experience is considered equivalent by my employer but its just a matter of time. My father, now in his 60s, is extremely qualified in his field and is often passed over for jobs due to his age, which is, of course, illegal. But as long as they have the "no degree" excuse to fall back on he's hosed.

I'm blessed to be one of the most overpaid HS graduates I know. But I also know I wont ever progress any further in my company because of a piece of paper that verifies that I know what I know.

I'm not stupid. I have a documented IQ of 164. Classrooms bore me. I clep'd my way through all but 3 credits for an AA but never finished that final course. I know co-workers with masters degrees that I can run circles around but we are all let to believe that a little piece of paper makes someone better.

Meh.

JThw8 wrote: Nuttin against you college educated folks but all a degree proves is you can take tests.

really dude?

Really?

I'm not going to get into this debate. I will say that the degree gets your foot in the door, beyond that it is the person.

ignorant wrote:

JThw8 wrote: Nuttin against you college educated folks but all a degree proves is you can take tests.

really dude? Really? I'm not going to get into this debate. I will say that the degree gets your foot in the door, beyond that it is the person.

Exactly, it just gets your foot in the door. So why limit your candidates based on something like that?
I'm sorry but I work with BAs MBAs etc every day and I've met some real vegetable matter that managed to get a degree. Its not a valid way to sort the candidates anymore and many very capable people are eliminated due to the education prejudice. Its discrimination, a degree does not make someone more or less qualified for a job, better or worse at what they do, it proves they can sit in a class and take a test. It proves they are trainable, there are cheaper ways to prove that.

I guess more to my point is it doesnt even matter what your degree is in these days.

I work in IT, I had an employee working as a software developer with a degree in marketing. The degree did nothing to prove he knew anything about software development. But he had a degree, that's good enough. So what did that degree prove? That he was teachable. Do we need to spend 20-40k plus to prove someone is teachable?

DrBoost wrote: And yes, I have thought about lying about a degree. I mean how kood they no I dont has a degre?

As someone who dropped out of college the first time, had to serve in the military to earn a GI Bill, and is going to finally walk the stage tomorrow four years later than planned for my degree, I would highly suggest you not do that.

I can't believe other GRM'ers would even mention something like that. Would you lie about being a Veteran? How does this differ any? Being a soldier just shows you spent at least 4 years "learning".

Also, employer's check up, I know. A place I interned at last year just fired a 10+ year employee for faking an AA degree. He never did anything wrong, was great at his job, and actually attended the school.

Look doc, I'm unemployed (again). It sucks. The job market sucks (unless you'll work for minimum wage and no benefits), the economy sucks, and everybody else seems to be making it. I understand, I really do. But do not cheapen yourself or your fellow man. I worked damn hard to earn my Bachelor's Degree, and I can guarantee you what I learned was way more than just "how to pass a test". Hell, my last four classes didn't even HAVE "tests"!

P71 wrote:

DrBoost wrote: And yes, I have thought about lying about a degree. I mean how kood they no I dont has a degre?

As someone who dropped out of college the first time, had to serve in the military to *earn* a GI Bill, and is going to finally walk the stage tomorrow four years later than planned for my degree, I would highly suggest you *not* do that. I can't believe other GRM'ers would even mention something like that. Would you lie about being a Veteran? How does this differ any? Being a soldier just shows you spent at least 4 years "learning". Also, employer's check up, I know. A place I interned at last year just fired a 10+ year employee for faking an AA degree. He never did anything wrong, was great at his job, and actually attended the school. Look doc, I'm unemployed (again). It sucks. The job market sucks (unless you'll work for minimum wage and no benefits), the economy sucks, and everybody else seems to be making it. I understand, I really do. But do not cheapen yourself or your fellow man. I worked *damn* hard to *earn* my Bachelor's Degree, and I can guarantee you what I learned was way more than just "how to pass a test". Hell, my last four classes didn't even HAVE "tests"!

I agree. What about doctors degrees? Okay to fake that?

I know you aren't going to do it, I'm just saying.

I really disagree with the "only teaches you how to pass tests" idea. It gives you a broad knowledge of a lot of things. No, it isn't going to prepare you for your job--the only thing that will do that is your job--but it certainly isn't worthless, and unless your major is something like actuarial science or accounting, it doesn't teach you to "just pass tests".

I don't want to insult xd here, but ever since the Corporate Overlords overran my once wonderful privately held company, I'm beginning to understand that the HR department is often the enemy, from resume to retirement. They're no longer just administrators dealing with employee benefits, etc., but now a full-fledged member of the "think of the stockholders" cadre. They are not there to find qualified people to recruit, they're not there to make the workplace a better environment, and they're certainly not there to represent your concerns to the organization at large. They're there to protect the company from it's employees. From finding "legal" ways to jettison older or newly disabled workers, to protecting the "rights" of the thin-skinned shiny happy people who take offense at any other employees' habits/appearance/words/etc. (after all, the `pantywaists' may sue!), to Zero-Tolerance documentation of simple mistakes in advance, so they can dissmiss at will anyone they wish for "non-performance issues". (so that they can illegally dismiss older/disabled workers without having to admit the real reasons for such dismissals)

How did we, as a nation, get to the point where a company considers it's own employees as an "enemy"? Boggles the mind. Personal consumption is 60 to 90 percent of the US economy, depending on which study you read:
http://www.hoover.org/research/factsonpolicy/facts/4931661.html
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/10/29/gdp_numbers_consumer_spending/
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/15ab886c-3b2e-11df-a1e7-00144feabdc0,s01=1.html

How can the corporate folks continue to hope for more consumer spending on one hand, and continue to seek to eliminate jobs that pay well enough to allow us to consume on the other? To me, it seems a bit short-sighted.

Sure ain't the kind of Capitalism I was taught in my high school Social Studies class. Maybe my liberal buddies are right about this whole "race to the bottom" thing..
http://www.economist.com/business-finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15606339