Am I really unemployable???

I would never lie about having a degree, but it is tempting. I just don't get it. I mean, IMO a degree isn't worth very much, especially when everyone I talk to says it doesn't matter what degree you have. That makes no sense. I'm going to be starting school in a few weeks to get a business degree. I have no interest in business, marketing or the like but I can get it online and I need to work as well to feed my family.
Anyway like I was saying, it makes no sense. I can guarantee you there isn't anyone else who knows the product (for the last job I didn't get) like me, cuz everyone else that does still works for Company B. So, in this case they'll take a guy with a degree and train him on the product (and it's MUCH more than knowing what it is and what it does. You have to know TONS of technical stuff to field problems over the phone, recommend installs and the like) AND train him on the Company A protocol over me who they only have to train on Company A protocol?
I don't want to sound like a whiner but I don't know what the point of trying to get a job is. I can't get a job that I've done for years because I am not real good at Algebra (never needed to know anything other than the most rudimentary Algebra in any job I've had).
Oh, and I think I will be flipping cars. 3 cars ago I started with $2400, I just sold a car for $4000 so I think I'm doing pretty good.

Here's my take on the future. After a few years these employers will be glutted with educated morons that don't have any actual skills or experience and realize the error of their ways. By that time us uneducated people will have educations but degrees will be tainted. Then they won't touch us because they want people that got a real education in the workforce and I'll have to sell my 3rd kidney to make ends meet.

Berkly me!

IMO, a degree (from a real university) is worth it. I will be graduating with a BA in Business. My Major in Entrepreneurship (that is running your own company or working in a company of 15 or less) with a Formal Minor in Human Resources. I started my first business at age 20 with a legitimate business license, insurance, and the whole gig. It was profitable for three years and I sold it when it got "too big" for me. Now that I actually have the knowledge to back it up I realize that I could have taken that same business and added a zero to the amounts I made.

I spent 30 weeks shadowing a business owner, pouring over their books, and writing a highly detailed, 35-page report on every little nuance of their firm and what they could do to improve it. I worked with team members all of the world (UK, soldier in Iraq, English teacher in China, and various states) on an 8-week project that resulted in published material. I've had to actually submit professional-level technical papers for publishing and peer review.

This education is WAY more than just a stupid piece of paper I paid a ton of money for. I know that tomorrow afternoon, when I have that "worthless" piece of paper from Washington State University in my hand, I'll be better able to land a job than I was last week.

JThw8 wrote: I think its just a matter of time till folks like myself and Dr Boost start a revolt and begin an education discrimination campaign. Nuttin against you college educated folks but all a degree proves is you can take tests. I can prove that without loosing 4 years of my life. I know co-workers with masters degrees that I can run circles around but we are all let to believe that a little piece of paper makes someone better.

A-men brother.

I don't think the point was to diminish a higher education. The point is that having a college degree does not make you smarter than someone without one who has verifiable experience in a field. I currently work under a couple of degreed idiots who can't accomplish anything more than making useless work for us in the field. Yet I can never be promoted to their level because I don't have proof I didn't sleep through the 4 years of schooling they took, despite my technical superiority and large dose of common sense they are lacking. I don't particularly want to move up, but if I did, spending the tens of thousands to get the degree to have more headaches and make a paltry 10 grand more doesn't seem like a good return on the investment.

To those who do decide they need the degree to move ahead, remember, unless you're talking 6 figure job the place where you get your degree doesn't mean squat. A community college can do the same thing for you that a pricey college will for drastically less money. The goal is to get the piece of paper. Most employers don't worry about where that paper is from.

Than you ddavidv, that is indeed the point I am trying to make. You certainly can learn something at a college, but you don't need to learn it from a college. The few times I tried to take college classes I had learned all the syllabus material within the first week and had gone off on my own learning beyond the material. Classroom learning does not work for some people.

There certainly is a value to education, but to value the worth or abilities of an employee based on a piece of paper (not their actual knowledge) is wrong. As I stated previously, more and more in this country it is just a way to legally discriminate for other factors (usually age).

The job I do, day in and day out is taught at exactly zero universities in the world. However there is a professional certification program for it. So if you are hiring me to do that job why would a degree weigh higher than a professional certification.

I would never discourage someone who wanted to go to college from doing so, but when I am hiring people (and yes I have been in a hiring manager position many times in my life) a college degree is a non-factor in my decision making process.

ddavidv wrote: To those who do decide they need the degree to move ahead, remember, unless you're talking 6 figure job the place where you get your degree doesn't mean squat. A community college can do the same thing for you that a pricey college will for drastically less money. The goal is to get the piece of paper. Most employers don't worry about where that paper is from.

There's truth to this. Also unless your suma cum laude or cum laude (sp) nowhere on the degree is your grade point average. I got my degree after I retired from the army at age 45 and did most of it at night while working full time, taking care of 1.2 acre yard and 2 teenage girls. And part of that time I was a Tech Writer/Editor. It was my military experience that got me the job but the paper got me promoted a few times. The last time was 2 months ago when I got an in-office promotion to GS13. I work for the army still. My degree and some other job certifications has little to do with what I do. My boss tells me if I go back for a Masters I could make 14 and 15 and be in charge of an office. I'm 51 now and not sure I want to do that. Been in charge before (platoon sgt) and it's a headache. And around here I don't seem to have the political mind (and I don't golf) it takes to run things, I'm an in the trenches technical type.
Part of it might be the area you live in. I know moving is not always possible for a variety of reasons.
Don't lie about having a degree but you could start going to school at least part time. And then you could put pursuing a degree on the resume.

I collapsed my own thread... just imagine how bad it was.

Try a temp service, Staffmark or any of the local slave traders.It will get you in the door and may help stabilize your situation. If you like the job,bust your hump for a few days and see what happens, if you dont like the job call the service and see what else they have

Well, I got a call back from a job I applied for. It's a shop that specializes in Euro cars Linkey But I'm sure he'll finally see me and say "Huh, no Doctorate degree? I didn't even know Snap On would sell to a non degreed person. I'm sorry but we're going to have to pass on you since we have another candidate that has a degree in NBA Statistics."

corrado is my effing hero! Ive been saying that about my corporate HR mafioso for years now.

I owe $16k for a degree I never finished - because I dont get along with school. I am another one of those documented higher IQ types, and my whole life was told I needed to apply myself more and "If youd spend half the energy on school that you put into your bmx/music/art/cars/etc [take your pick], youd do sooo much better in your classes" yadah yaddah. I too hear it all the time about not having my degree...but you know what, I shouldnt need that. I outperform most in my site, and am not nearly the highest paid. Theres no where for me to go at this point, and Im hoping that just putting in the time will be sufficient. Most jobs that I look at say "bachelors degree or equivalent background in the industry" and Im banking on the equivalent part...but now it looks like too much time can be just as bad.

I think the jobless masses will eventually begin working for themselves or unite to form small businesses. I have a feeling the big boxes will eventually crumble and fall as more and more small businesses and family run operations will be able to offer better customer service and maybe even bartering once money begins to lose its value compared to "stuff"...."I got some tomatoes, I see your starving, and I need that intake manifold you got on that shelf". It wont be long Im afraid!

After being laid off in April '09, I've only gotten 2 interviews. When I asked about compensation at the second one, I had to tell them not to bother. $12 to $14 to rebuild jet engine parts! (Think about that the next time you climb in for your next vacation!). There are no jobs in aviation, at least none that you could live on. I am fortunate that I had savings and other business interests. About the time that unemployment runs out, the apartment building will be producing a decent income. I told my girlfriend that I will most likely spend the rest of my life self employed.

In reply to 4cylndrfury:

Yeah, I'm kind of in the same boat. I'm pretty smart, but school just bored me to tears. I only got about half-way through. Might have stuck it out, but after my dad died I tried to work full time and take a full time schedule of classes. Never missed a day of work, never missed a class..but never did any stinking homework. Flunk city.
I actually enjoy what I do (master control tech for cable TV network), I just can't stand the people I'm working for at the moment. And I'm tempted to just leave the field (to me, it seems to by a dying medium-like commercial FM radio 30yrs ago), but where would I go? Without that piece of paper, no one wants to talk to me (especially at 48yrs old), even in related media using the same technology (many of the video or music systems in stores/bars/etc. use broadcast automation systems).

I've always been a bit of a leftist, but never enough to completely turn my back on capitalism. However, these corporate types are making me rethink a lot of my stances on this kind of thing. "Think of the stockholders"? You betcha. Every time I go to the pistol range.

4cylndrfury wrote: I am another one of those documented higher IQ types, and my whole life was told I needed to apply myself more and "If youd spend half the energy on school that you put into your *bmx/music/art/cars/etc* [take your pick], youd do sooo much better in your classes"

That's exactly how I am. Now that I am doing architecture I am much happier since it is much more hands-on and design based. I am only in the first year architecture course though and need to submit my portfolio at the end of this quarter to be accepted to the program. I don't have the required GPA for the program but I'm hoping my portfolio has more impact than my previous grades like it should. Why should my grade in classes such as Biology or Statistics have more weight than my actual architecture work?

In reply to JThw8:

Chip on your shoulder maybe?

I work in engineering. I find it interesting that guys in the office who either don't have a degree or only have a two year degree seem to have the same attitude and chip.

I guess my 60+ hours a week for 5 solid years of studying, doing problems and generally busting my ass don't count for anything.

Contrary to popular belief they do actually teach you stuff in college. And while it can be boring to sit in classroom and pay attention to something like differential equations, it does build the self-discipline to apply yourself to what can seem an impossible task.

Besides it doesn't have to be all boring classroom stuff. Our senior design project was the school's FSAE engine intake and exhaust, which means we spent a lot of time in the machine shop, welding bay and in the dyno cell beating the hell out of an engine.

I would venture a guess that there are a few engineering degrees that are worth their weight so to speak, but to say youd rather hire a college grad with a early childhood development degree to work in a logistics firm or a kid with his English degree to manage your 1st shift manufacturing team over a 45 y.o. with 10 years experience in Logistics but no degree is just ridiculous, and an example of the bureaucratic nonsense thats gotten this country in so much trouble already...propagating it is just as bad in my book as actually doing the discriminating....bart simpson said it best, and it rhymes with "bet rent"

No chip at all on my shoulder. And certainly in fields such as engineering and medicine etc I can see where the value lies in a education.

But our society has reached a point where for some reason we feel that all jobs are made better by college. Its just not true. In so many fields on the job specialized training is faster and more effective. And still required even if you have a degree.

To judge whether or not a person is capable of excelling or even coping with a job based on whether or not they have a college degree, in most instances, is pointless. As so many others have pointed out in this thread, you don't even have to have a degree in your field, just any old degree. It seems to me that diminishes the value of the degree even further.

As far as the self discipline learned in college, it may apply for some but certainly not all, and I think 12 years in military service provided me a much greater understanding of self discipline than most if any schools could.

But a chip, no. I've found a niche where companies need me. Enough to have to ignore the degree requirement. I get paid better than most college educated folks I know, not because of my schooling, but because of my skills.

JThw8 wrote: I get paid ... not because of my schooling, but because of my skills.

this should be the case in all non-specialized fields...

JThw8 wrote: I get paid better than most college educated folks I know, not because of my schooling, but because of my skills.

My schooling opened the door.

I get paid because of my skills.

ignorant wrote:

JThw8 wrote: I get paid better than most college educated folks I know, not because of my schooling, but because of my skills.

My schooling opened the door. I get paid because of my skills.

And I'm not knocking that, or trying to belittle those who have gone to school. But it shouldn't be the deciding factor in landing a job these days and unfortunately it is.

Education is a wonderful thing, but it will rarely impart and never replace experience.

My point was never to say that "OMG everyone is wasting their time with schooling" I don't think there is anything wrong with getting a higher education, I highly recommend it to anyone so inclined. Where I find fault is with today's corporate society which places education, even when it is in a non-related field, above skills and experience.

Sooner or later I will probably finish my degree. I will do so through the magic of CLEP. Makes people happy, for someone else to tell them I know what I know I guess.

JThw8 wrote:

ignorant wrote:

JThw8 wrote: I get paid better than most college educated folks I know, not because of my schooling, but because of my skills.

My schooling opened the door. I get paid because of my skills.

And I'm not knocking that, or trying to belittle those who have gone to school. But it shouldn't be the deciding factor in landing a job these days and unfortunately it is.

I understand. If I have time before I leave for a business trip, I'll relate my own personal story... It's interesting to say the least.

mblommel wrote: In reply to JThw8: Chip on your shoulder maybe? I work in engineering. I find it interesting that guys in the office who either don't have a degree or only have a two year degree seem to have the same attitude and chip. I guess my 60+ hours a week for 5 solid years of studying, doing problems and generally busting my ass don't count for anything. Contrary to popular belief they do actually teach you stuff in college. And while it can be boring to sit in classroom and pay attention to something like differential equations, it does build the self-discipline to apply yourself to what can seem an impossible task. Besides it doesn't have to be all boring classroom stuff. Our senior design project was the school's FSAE engine intake and exhaust, which means we spent a lot of time in the machine shop, welding bay and in the dyno cell beating the hell out of an engine.

They well have that attitude because they are BETTER then the high dollar flunkies with special letters on the paper that can't fix coffee. My biggest problem with the engineering programs out there is the how the programs are laid out. In 1.5 yrs, I took ONE engineering-ish class, statics with Dr Bob Hubbard @ MSU. I ran out of money after that semester and went home plus I was bored. I enrolled at Ferris State in mech eng tech and had way more fun for two years for the AAS then what I put up with at the other school. The problem is there isn't anything to hold interest while you have to take the bullchit courses, the humanities, social sciences, and math, that aren't going to lead to anything productive towards a degree.

Brian

Wow, I can't believe how oppressed the members of this board are. I have multiple college degrees and an MBA, and I have been unemployed for almost two years now. The pain is felt all over. As a (former?) manager, a degree indicates to me that the job applicant completed four years at something, whether he or she liked the classes, or the teachers, or the work, whatever. Did he or she achieve the goal, yes or no. Just one indicator he or she would be a good employee. And hey, if you don't want to go to school, your choice. Reality is that higher education is valued in the corporate world. Life is not fair. If life was fair, I would not be in my current situation. My $0.02. Take what fits, leave the rest.

[Internet tough guy alert] Take the corporate bs and shove it. Ive been at my job for over 5 years, longer than it would take me to get my degree, Ive survived 2 rounds of mass layoffs, worked for 3 companies in the same building doing the same thing, been promoted 2 times (still hourly) and have a higher level of understanding about my job and the work that goes on in my building than my degree holding manager. But he got the job because of that fancy paper, and its whats holding me back. You hide behind your rules...all corporations do, and using a triviality like a degree as a singular proof of someones willingness or ability to complete a task is cowardly-the professional equivalent of saying its my ball and my rules and my yard and i say you cant play cuz i dont like you. Get outta here with that crap. [ / internet tough guy]

jdub13101 wrote: As a (former?) manager, a degree indicates to me that the job applicant completed four years at something, whether he or she liked the classes, or the teachers, or the work, whatever. Did he or she achieve the goal, yes or no. Just one indicator he or she would be a good employee.

Well, even though I don't have a degree I can show that I can complete 4 years, plus 16 of actual work, not doing keg-stands and jello shots at frat parties. While some punk was getting his degree on middle-eastern culture I was building prototype engines, or repairing cars or writing service manuals. That's what I'm getting at. Like others have (more eloquently) said, a degree (especially since they don't usually care what the degree is) does not mean the person can do the job. It does mean they can sit through a boring or challenging class. Why is it that work experience means nothing anymore?

To go back to your original question, No you are not unemployable. Frustrated, burned out, and angry from the search but not unemployable. I guess from the tone of the conversation so far, I should be the most hated person here. I have multiple degrees and I work in HR.

That being said I am also looking for work right now. After doing contract consulting work for the last 4 years, I have learned a lot about how to navigate corporate environments as well as the ins and outs of the work search process. I have been managing to get at least one to two interviews a week for the last month. I have been thinking about starting a blog or something to share some of what I have learned. Things like 70% of the jobs are never advertised and get filled by referrals. This means your friends and the people you have worked with are your best source of job leads. Another counter intuitive bit is the more specific you are in your search the faster you'll be working, even if it isn't what you were specifically looking for. What I found is clearer you are in what you are looking for, the easier it is for people to know how they can help.

Regarding the post about corporations seeing employees as the enemy, corporate America doesn't actively hate you. However it doesn't love you either. Any publicly traded company is going to be forced by its shareholders to treat you as a means to an end. I think it is really unfortunate, but right now a job is a business transaction. You sell you time and abilities. They give a check.

JThw8 wrote: I think its just a matter of time till folks like myself and Dr Boost start a revolt and begin an education discrimination campaign. Nuttin against you college educated folks but all a degree proves is you can take tests. I can prove that without loosing 4 years of my life. ...but we are all let to believe that a little piece of paper makes someone better.

where do I sign up? Viva la revolution!