Okay, China hosts the olympics this year and suddenly they're dominating the medals as well? As I write this they're a bit behind the U.S. in total (65 to 67) but far outpace everyone else in the world in terms of gold medals, of which they have 37.
I know they have a billion-strong "talent pool" to draw from, but still... I can't remember the last time they were even in the top three!
The East German judge calls shenanigans.
J
From what I understand, that's typical. The hosting country tends to have an advantage, even over impartial judges. It's hard to ignore the "12th man" so to speak.
they take children from their home at young ages and have a state funded and mandated training program.
The U.S. athletes do it for the sport.
The chinese do it because they are told to and then eventually grow to like it.
I will inject a bit of Hess here and say that they probably are rigging things slightly because they want to be seen as a global power.
I was watching the gymnastics competition last night and the girl doing the vault did a minor fault and a HUGE one where she landed on her knees instead of on her feet.. and she still beat the american who only had a small hop at the end.
Granted, the chinese girl was doing her routine at a higher level, but everybody was questioning the judges on their call.
I'm gonna go ahead and say it now.
I have nothing against the Chinese people, their culture, or their home land, but their government as a whole is berkeleying shady. I always had my doubts about our own government, but I don't think anything could make me want to live in China.
My big thing with the Chinese here is that... Those girls in the gymnastics were not 16. The American woman's team all looked like young women, or at least close to it. The Chinese girls looked like... girls.
And can anyone explain to me why the minimum age is 16, and yet the Chinese had a 15 year old (that's what the tv said) and the American Divers had a 15 year old as well?
the chinese are also playing to the judging in a smart way. apparently in a lot of sports you get more for difficulty ratings than execution. So If you have a difficult routine vs a moderate difficult routine the extreme difficulty will win even if execution is off somewhat.
mtn wrote: My big thing with the Chinese here is that... Those girls in the gymnastics were not 16. The American woman's team all looked like young women, or at least close to it. The Chinese girls looked like... girls. And can anyone explain to me why the minimum age is 16, and yet the Chinese had a 15 year old (that's what the tv said) and the American Divers had a 15 year old as well?
They have to turn 16 in the year of the Olympics they do not have to be 16 at the time of the games.
The minimum age thing - you have to be 16 at some point during this competition year, so there are some competitors that are legal but not yet actually 16 as of this moment. Kinda like how horses all have the same birthday. I can't remember the specific cutoff date.
I am not surprised at all by the medal tally. China has known for 12 years IIRC that it would be hosting this event. Therefore, they have had 12 years to seek out, develop, and train athletes for this event. They have put in a great effort in the nation to develop athletes, much greater than any previous olympics, and many of these athletes were small children when China learned it would be hosting these games. Of course the hometown crowd can't hurt the judging in subjectively scored sports either.
Josh wrote: I am not surprised at all by the medal tally. China has known for 12 years IIRC that it would be hosting this event. Therefore, they have had 12 years to seek out, develop, and train athletes for this event. They have put in a great effort in the nation to develop athletes, much greater than any previous olympics, and many of these athletes were small children when China learned it would be hosting these games.
+1
They've mentioned China having programs to foster more medals.
Of course it could be pretty scary what those programs might be...
Notice this does not happen in track, field, or swimming... you can be a winner or loser by so little that no one can tell with the naked eye... but you can't fool a stopwatch or a measuring tape. The competitors know exactly where they stand against their opponent.
Any sport with a panel of judges is too subjective to take seriously as anything more than a demonstration of skill regardless of how amazing it is to watch.
walterj wrote: Any sport with a panel of judges is too subjective to take seriously as anything more than a demonstration of skill regardless of how amazing it is to watch.
Yea, just watch boxing. It's amazing how poor the juding has been at this Olympics.
Boxing = Gymnastics....
E-
walterj wrote: Notice this does not happen in track, field, or swimming... you can be a winner or loser by so little that no one can tell with the naked eye... but you can't fool a stopwatch or a measuring tape. The competitors know exactly where they stand against their opponent. Any sport with a panel of judges is too subjective to take seriously as anything more than a demonstration of skill regardless of how amazing it is to watch.
That's why, as tough and as crazy as it is, gymnastics isn't a sport.
I read somewhere that China is spending 10 times what the US is spending on training. Maybe they're robots.
walterj wrote: Any sport with a panel of judges is too subjective to take seriously as anything more than a demonstration of skill regardless of how amazing it is to watch.
cough Drifting! cough
Also the hosting country is allowed extra atheletes. Cannot remember the exact number but I remember when the Olymics came to Atlanta, one of the commentators mentioning it.
Duke wrote:walterj wrote: Any sport with a panel of judges is too subjective to take seriously as anything more than a demonstration of skill regardless of how amazing it is to watch.*cough* **Drifting!** *cough*
Olympic Drifting, it's GENIUS! Why didn't I think of that?
They could do the drifting during the "Competition Cautions" at the OlympiCAR stock car events. Because NASCAR could run the Olympics better.
Project 119
http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/beijing/archive/2008/01/09/gold-rush-china-s-olympic-strategy-and-project-119.aspx
I would have to imagine "playing to the home crowd" is a huge incentive...wherever the Olympics is held.
Besides, look what happened to the (formerly) Communist "states" in the late '50s and through the '60s....their governments wanted to put on a huge show for the world to see and as a consequence we had a whole slew of Olympic competitors that had questions raised as to their sex. Russian women swimmers in the '60s made Mike Phelps look like a 98 pound weakling.
I'm just not sure it's the judges.
integraguy wrote: ... look what happened to the (formerly) Communist "states" in the late '50s and through the '60s....their governments wanted to put on a huge show for the world to see and as a consequence we had a whole slew of Olympic competitors that had questions raised as to their sex. ...
I saw an article somewhere last week about a middle-aged German man who was a gold medal winning female shotputter back in the day. Apparently the steroids effectively changed her sex, so she ended up having the surgery to make it official. 
As for playing to the home crowd, it would be a shame if any judges were caught up in dragnets intended to catch criminal activity or otherwise stirring up dissent. They might wind up spending some quality time in a Chinese prison or just "disappearing," if you catch my drift.
I'm finally getting into the Olympic spirit
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