America owes Toyota an apology

No clutch pedal = NOT a manual.

I love the outlaw slushboxes idea!

Knurled wrote: Assuming that DSG style units still count as "manual".

Does Not Count!!!

Manual Gearbox = H pattern/Sequential gear selection and a third pedal. When you absolutely, positively must enjoy a car, except no substitutes

In reply to Knurled:

i'd argue no automated clutch does not a manual trans make.

Didn't read the whole thing. Americans don't apologize until the person/group involved are too old to demand restitution and have time to enjoy it. Nothing in the Toyota drama ever changed my mind about their cars. I drive one now, and should they choose to make a car I consider interesting again I'll buy another one. I, for one, have no apology to make, and neither do my tax dollars.

In reply to daytonaer:

That is my point exactly you can't find a stripper econobox anywere anymore hardly except Kias but those are worst then the Yaris. A couple mods and it is pretty fun. Sure the interior plastics suck but I don't really care.

America owes Toyota an apology?

Yeah, right!

I'll give them a one-finger salute.

1988RedT2 wrote: America owes Toyota an apology? Yeah, right! I'll give them a one-finger salute.

When I hear stuff like this at work.. I always tell them about the fact that 5 of my college friends work for Toyota, 3 of my college friends work at Honda R&D and 3 at Honda Manufacturing. I have 1 friend working for GM. So I always tell them that buying from toyota or honda supports many of my friends. They then say some crap about the money going overseas, which is BS.. Figure out how much stays here and you'll find its like 2-3% of car purchase price goes to corp as profit. And most of that stays with the local country corp..

bah.

alfadriver wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Well, to be fair, we should also apologize to Ford (Pinto and Explorer), Audi (5000), GM (trucks) etc.

The Ford Pinto had a real problem with the fuel tank placement, just like Crown Vics do today. And the Yaris is the best econobox currently in production IMO. What's wrong with the one you drove?

We've been through this multiple times- the Pinto was a set up- and had a common design with most of the cars of the period. I have to just look in my garage at my Alfa to see a copy. Most of the urban legends about the case were things either falsified or taken out of context/attributed to the wrong author. The Crown Vic? 80mph rear ending, with a jack and other things in the trunk set up to puncture the tank- that too was exposed. As for the Yaris.... as posted before- in order of how I noticed them: 1) Ergonomics- the middle mounted dash may look interesting, but it's totally distracting, and a very, very poor execution of a dash. One should not have to turn left or right to see that information. Major fail. 2) Interior- every single surface besides the seats were hard plastic. Considering how often it's brought up, I figured that this would never happen in a Toyota. Then the seats- I could not find a very comfortable position, and by the time we got to Ponce- my leg was very sore. Thankfully (for it) the bad interior distracted my wife from the poor NVH. 3) engine- all in all, ok- but pretty gutless, it could be for my other major problem- 4) transmission- holy hunting. Totally inexcusable shift schedule, where you slow down as you climb a hil, and when if finally downshifts, you are now at 5000rpm- followed by an upshift- repeat without stopping. No way to climb a mountain with a constant speed- which makes it a MAJOR PAIN when in traffic. Horrible, horrible, horrible. (BTW, we have gotten into the second decade of 2000- you CAN use more than 4 forward speeds). 5) steering- uh- couldn't feel a thing. And while a manual everything is somewhat acceptable, the fact that each of the manual components were a pain to deal with isn't. Had I not had a passenger, the pass mirror would have been a major pain to deal with. And reaching the rear doors wasn't as easy as one would expect.... Again, considering how cheap a POS that was, I honestly thing that many Toyota owners use the "reliabilty and reputation" excuse as a reason to justify owning such horrible cars AND paying such a premium for such garbage. Best car? Seirously? Cool aid sweet? Get out more. There's a LOT better out there.

I said "best econobox," and most of the issues you listed are standard econobox problems: Center-mounted dash (I agree, horrible idea, sadly they're the rule rather than the exception these days), numb steering, engine meant to get you from A to B cheaply, cheap interior, manual everything (a plus on an econobox, as the buyer probably wouldn't like to spend a few hundred every time a window motor/switch fails or their seat gets stuck in a bad position because of an electrical problem).

Awful slushboxes are becoming less prevalent these days with auto 5-speeds that know when to shift down, so I guess that's a valid problem. Seat comfort depends on the person sitting in it - I can only cartoonishly cram myself into a 2007 Corolla while other people drive them around just fine.

ignorant wrote:

1988RedT2 wrote: America owes Toyota an apology? Yeah, right! I'll give them a one-finger salute.

When I hear stuff like this at work.. I always tell them about the fact that 5 of my college friends work for Toyota, 3 of my college friends work at Honda R&D and 3 at Honda Manufacturing. I have 1 friend working for GM. So I always tell them that buying from toyota or honda supports many of my friends. They then say some crap about the money going overseas, which is BS.. Figure out how much stays here and you'll find its like 2-3% of car purchase price goes to corp as profit. And most of that stays with the local country corp.. bah.

If you think that Toyota does all that they do for 2% to 3% profit to get to them in Japan, you're crazy.

racerfink wrote:

ignorant wrote:

1988RedT2 wrote: America owes Toyota an apology? Yeah, right! I'll give them a one-finger salute.

When I hear stuff like this at work.. I always tell them about the fact that 5 of my college friends work for Toyota, 3 of my college friends work at Honda R&D and 3 at Honda Manufacturing. I have 1 friend working for GM. So I always tell them that buying from toyota or honda supports many of my friends. They then say some crap about the money going overseas, which is BS.. Figure out how much stays here and you'll find its like 2-3% of car purchase price goes to corp as profit. And most of that stays with the local country corp.. bah.

If you think that Toyota does all that they do for 2% to 3% profit to get to them in Japan, you're crazy.

Agreed. The lion's share of the profit goes where the execs and shareholders are.

96DXCivic wrote: In reply to daytonaer: That is my point exactly you can't find a stripper econobox anywere anymore hardly except Kias but those are worst then the Yaris. A couple mods and it is pretty fun. Sure the interior plastics suck but I don't really care.

Have you even LOOKED at a new Kia? The rest of the country has and they're buying them.

ignorant wrote:

1988RedT2 wrote: America owes Toyota an apology? Yeah, right! I'll give them a one-finger salute.

When I hear stuff like this at work.. I always tell them about the fact that 5 of my college friends work for Toyota, 3 of my college friends work at Honda R&D and 3 at Honda Manufacturing. I have 1 friend working for GM. So I always tell them that buying from toyota or honda supports many of my friends. They then say some crap about the money going overseas, which is BS.. Figure out how much stays here and you'll find its like 2-3% of car purchase price goes to corp as profit. And most of that stays with the local country corp.. bah.

What's your point? My aversion to Toyota is the result of test driving their vehicles and finding them lacking. The only new cars I've ever purchased have been Mazdas. I'm thrilled that Toyota's product has gotten so much negative publicity lately and I look forward, perhaps unrealistically, to the day when they join Oldsmobile and Plymouth as brands that were once popular but are now extinct.

Bobzilla wrote:

96DXCivic wrote: In reply to daytonaer: That is my point exactly you can't find a stripper econobox anywere anymore hardly except Kias but those are worst then the Yaris. A couple mods and it is pretty fun. Sure the interior plastics suck but I don't really care.

Have you even LOOKED at a new Kia? The rest of the country has and they're buying them.

I didn't even know Kia existed anymore, I jest of course, but I rarely see them and don't even know what they offer - the Rondo? fugliest thing in creation. Now, Versas, D.C. is coming down with them, much like the Jetta was the default car around here for most of the last decade. The new Hyundai, the one that looks like a Mercedes, there have been a gazillion new ones here so far this year, and for good reason, quite an attractive car.

Bobzilla wrote:

96DXCivic wrote: In reply to daytonaer: That is my point exactly you can't find a stripper econobox anywere anymore hardly except Kias but those are worst then the Yaris. A couple mods and it is pretty fun. Sure the interior plastics suck but I don't really care.

Have you even LOOKED at a new Kia? The rest of the country has and they're buying them.

I did not like. But the Yaris I was in was modified so I would need to be in a similarly modified Kia to compare.

I've looked at a new Kia. I see them in the junkyard all the time when I'm looking for parts for my 20-year old Mazda.

1988RedT2 wrote: What's your point? My aversion to Toyota is the result of test driving their vehicles and finding them lacking. The only new cars I've ever purchased have been Mazdas. I'm thrilled that Toyota's product has gotten so much negative publicity lately and I look forward, perhaps unrealistically, to the day when they join Oldsmobile and Plymouth as brands that were once popular but are now extinct.

This. that and the wonderful displeasure of owning one.... and selling their parts for a while. that was fun. "Engine? 3.0 coming right up."

Starting to get a little off topic, but...

Here's the new Kia Forte Koup

And here's the new Kia Forte Koup racing in the Grand-Am Continental Tires Challenge

racerfink wrote: Starting to get a little off topic, but... Here's the new Kia Forte Koup And here's the new Kia Forte Koup racing in the Grand-Am Continental Tires Challenge

ah, yes, okay. I've seen a few of these, both sedan and coupe - the coupe is a very, very good looking car.

In reply to nutherjrfan:

I must say I wouldn't mind trying out the Forte Koup.

Anybody--well, almost anybody--can make a pretty new car. The question that needs to be answered, in my mind, is: Will it still be running when the warranty runs out?

racerfink wrote: If you think that Toyota does all that they do for 2% to 3% profit to get to them in Japan, you're crazy.

gross margin from their annual report is around 12%.. I might be a little light, but once you subtract out their ridiculous expansion/growth costs I'll bet I'm only a % or 2 off on my 2-3% estimate..

Find me better numbers..

Too many people think that automotive is a good margin business. It's not. It's total crap. My current company won't touch anything less than 25% GM and I used to work for a company that wouldn't touch anything less than 400%..

GameboyRMH wrote: Agreed. The lion's share of the profit goes where the execs and shareholders are.

so you mean the US.. The US holds more shares than any other country through our large financial services companies and the ranks of the US execs are growing very fast.

America didnt create the problem Toyota did with terrible management of the issue. And it wasnt just US taking action on this problem. If Totyota quality hadnt slipped I dont think President of the company would have been out publically admitting the quality had slipped.

1988RedT2 wrote: Anybody--well, almost anybody--can make a pretty new car. The question that needs to be answered, in my mind, is: Will it still be running when the warranty runs out?

Mine are. 110k past warranty and counting.