American attitudes, where are we at today.

First, everything in this post is stated from the point of view from the poster. Nothing said here is meant to be personal and should not be taken as such. Personal attacks are not welcome.

Second, this isn't meant to be political, but a state of the citizenry. That being said, politics may be brought to light as an example. But this isn't the core of what is going on.

Am I the only one that feels that most of the country have lost their minds? 47 Senators violating the Logan Act, and borderline sedition because they don't like the President. States passing voter restriction law citing election fraud that they have no evidence of. Our country being viewed by the world as the greatest threat to peace on the planet. Blaming the poor and elderly for our budget problems when we spend more on one jet than all welfare costs. Focusing on finger pointing and no one coming up with solutions to actual issues. Yet in all of this...

People refuse to vote and/or support the same clowns over and over that get it us into this mess. Not only being content with the media and government lying to us, adamantly defending those who lie because the side you don't support is the one pointing out the lie.

I have friends, that are intelligent, responsible people that have political and social views that are as fragmented, contradictory, and hypocritical on almost everything they stand for.

So what say you GRM. We are a fairly mixed group. Be nice and state your opinion.

... and I thought this post was gonna be about trucks

nevermind

Business as usual.

What we see now has been about a half century of radical thought processes in the making.

I could take the time to make a rebuttle for my own personal concerns.....but with some people here, reasoning doesn't apply to them, so I'll just not bother.

Mandatory voting should fix it all.

Learn to grow your own food, shoot straight and disappear into the wilderness. Read "For Whom The Bell Tolls". Ponder it a bit.

Travel a bit outside the borders too. While you can. Maybe settle somewhere.

Know that you do not live in the special snowflake of perfection you have been told you do.

Winter is Coming. (this post brought to you by HBO productions and in no way affiliated with the account it is posted to).

Flight Service wrote: "because they don't like the President"

It is not a matter of like/dislike, it is a matter of agree/disagree with the president.

I was once very liberal.

Then, I became pretty conservative.

Now, I realize they are the same. There is not a solution because both sides want the same thing.

Politics is no longer about solving problems. It is about creating and sustaining chaos.

Chaos drives people to the polls. If you can get your constituents pissed off enough about something, they will show up. Not to vote for you, but to vote against the other guy.

Both major political parties promote chaos, then offer promises to fix the chaos, which only lead to more chaos.

In reply to SVreX:

We are not very often on the same page but that is some sage wisdom you speak.

Let us never speak of it again.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

I think we are much more often on the same page than you realize.

SVreX wrote: I was once very liberal. Then, I became pretty conservative. Now, I realize they are the same. There is not a solution because both sides want the same thing. Politics is no longer about solving problems. It is about creating and sustaining chaos. Chaos drives people to the polls. If you can get your constituents pissed off enough about something, they will show up. Not to vote for you, but to vote against the other guy. Both major political parties promote chaos, then offer promises to fix the chaos, which only lead to more chaos.

I did the opposite. First Conservative then Liberal, but yeah the rest has been my observation as well.

And no, it was because they didn't like him. There is a well documented meeting that they would do everything humanly possible to obstruct and prevent the President upon his initial election. It doesn't matter that 80% of the current administrations policies are late 80's and through 90's GOP policies.

But none of this is the question.

The question is We The People. Where do we stand? Why do we continue to let what is happening happen if it is truly what we don't want? Why are we so ingrained to continue to support people who want to condemn us and support people who are against our best interests and the country's. Or what's worse be completely apathetic to all of it. What happens to the country or ourselves.

That is the question.

SVreX wrote: Mandatory voting should fix it all.

First, amnesty. Second, get them all on subsistence and dependent on the system. Then mandatory voting.

Zomby Woof wrote: Business as usual.

Sadly, this. Laws selecting who gets to vote (the people who will vote for you, obviously) have always existed. It's probably better off now than before when it was only white land owning males. It's not perfect, obviously and still in need of improvement, but it has been worse. We just have to keep it from moving backward.

Same goes for rationalizing contradictions when it serves you. That goes way back. Here's some info about Thomas Jefferson many people know- he was highly educated, wealthy, and fairly progressive for his time in many ways. He also stated many times his belief that all men are created equal. He also owned slaves. Sound contradictory? It is, but he had rationalizations for it. While he believed blacks were 'morally' equal to whites, he believed they lacked the advanced reasoning skills and creativity of whites. Therefor, for them to reach their true potential (here meaning productivity/moving society forward, that society where Jefferson was conveniently on top) they should be 'directed' in their work. How convenient for Jefferson.

It's not all bad, though, he believed the Indians and whites were morally and intellectually equal, which was very progressive for the time. The only issue was their culture which had not sufficiently advanced (an anthropological theory not debunked until the early 20th century). They must therefore be fully assimilated (this is now called ethnocide, like genocide but with culture). Fortunately again for Jefferson (and other white colonists) this meant that their culture was not sufficiently advanced enough to lay claim to land, and it was therefor up for the taking. One of the many ways people acquired land back then (and somewhat today) was to 'improve' it- clear trees, plow and plant crops in rows, build a fence around it. Indian farming didn't do those things (no plow animals, they planted corn, beans and squash together, not many fences). By definition then even Indian farm fields weren't considered advanced (basically a synonym for 'European') enough to qualify as 'improvements'. Colonists could then 'improve the land' that the Indians didn't own, but since the Indians were equals, they could repurchase their old land back. How convenient.

As a side note, Jefferson even designed his house so that he, and his guests, could benefit from slaves cooking/serving food and the like without needing to see them. It was designed to hide the slaves, basically. It's much easier to believe contradictory yet convenient things when you aren't forced to face them. as much.

Flight Service wrote: But none of this is the question. The question is We The People. Where do we stand? Why do we continue to let what is happening happen if it is truly what we don't want? Why are we so ingrained to continue to support people who want to condemn us and support people who are against our best interests and the country's. That is the question.

(deep breath) Because we have been cultivated to.

It takes a man with nothing to lose to start a rebellion. If you want change outside the confines of legal means then you have to risk something. The people of this country are "First world hungry" and "First world poor" but the number of people who are not really having their needs for survival met are few. A "miffed" body of people are what we really are. The ruling class knows damn well that if you buy off the poor with subsidies and keep the working class in big screen TVs that no large opposition force is going to hold.

Sorry... but fat, dumb and happy is how to rule. And we are.

I find most things political in nature or having to do with the federal or state government to be distasteful. I don't feel I can trust any of our elected officials to try to do a good job or do what they were elected to do. I feels as if politicians have only their own best interests at heart, those being the continuation of the status quo, the growth of government and government power and by those means the continuation of the influence and power of said politicians. Just makes me sick and there is nothing I can do about it.

I agree that we are now in a society that blames things on other people. No one wants to take responsibility for their actions anymore.

Also, I think they need to put term limits on the folks in Congress. It's gotten to the point where it doesn't matter if they are left or right, they just go around in circles about the same crap over and over again. Time for new people with new agendas that could benefit the country. They just fight each other constantly and never get anything done.

There you go, trying to offer solutions again.

Term limits is logical. It does not fit the chaos agenda, and therefore will not happen.

It is a really easy sell to convince people they will loose leadership, experience, and political clout with term limits.

Flight Service said: I have friends, that are intelligent, responsible people that have political and social views that are as fragmented, contradictory, and hypocritical on almost everything they stand for.

You are aware that your friends are thinking the same of you, right?

the problem starts with us. "we" the people have been sold a bill of goods. Not by our politicians, but by the companies that sell us our goods.. whether durable, food, or information. We buy what they want to sell us (instead of them making what we want to buy) and in turn they use that money to buy/hijack our political system for their own good.

It is like the housing/debt crash that happened at the end of George W Bush's presidency. You can blame him and his policies all you want, but if we had not bought into the need for bigger, better, faster, now.. we as a country would not have been up to our eyeballs in debt and the bursting bubble would have been much smaller and less painful.

The real issue is.. did we learn from it? To judge by all the Credit card offers I get.. not one iota.

My plan is that in the next few years I will buy a bigger boat, cash out on all my 401ks, and leave. There are many places in this world that are less inhabited and more free than the supposed "land of the free"

Nice thread. Some well reasoned points all around and no mud slinging, well done.

There seem to be problems with entitlement, greed, corruption, sloth, and the rest.

I suspect that Madison Avenue can largely be blamed. Selling us all on the newer/shinier/bigger/etc widget that we just have to have keeps us all in the rat race and blind to the real problems. When there is unrest here in the states people loot TVs and sneakers. When there is unrest in other countries governments fall. Our priorities are out of whack.

Politicians have a "my party first" attitude that gets in the way of moving forward legislation which is needed to keep the wheels on the national bus. Children are taught not to take their ball and go home, our elected leaders should as well.

Sadly, I don't think it's going to get better any day soon. Shotgun shells and canned food my friends, time to stock up.

KyAllroad wrote: Nice thread. Some well reasoned points all around and no mud slinging, well done. There seem to be problems with entitlement, greed, corruption, sloth, and the rest. I suspect that Madison Avenue can largely be blamed. Selling us all on the newer/shinier/bigger/etc widget that we just have to have keeps us all in the rat race and blind to the real problems. When there is unrest here in the states people loot TVs and sneakers. When there is unrest in other countries governments fall. Our priorities are out of whack. Politicians have a "my party first" attitude that gets in the way of moving forward legislation which is needed to keep the wheels on the national bus. Children are taught not to take their ball and go home, our elected leaders should as well. Sadly, I don't think it's going to get better any day soon. Shotgun shells and canned food my friends, time to stock up.

very true. Before the last election, Congress had an approval rating in the single digits. Most of them got re-elected

I'm with SVrEX, with one caveat: I haven't swung fully one way or the other. Like the vast majority of Americans, I see good ideas in both ends of the political spectrum. The problem is, the far fringe on both sides is now running the show and won't hear of any compromise which would help the nation as a whole. Since term limits would effectively end much of this the politicians are of course against it, not to mention it would end their careers as 'public servants' (ha!).

I also have seen something else I find disturbing: on Farcebook there was a recent feed or whatever you call it which was started by a picture of Hilary Clinton. The comments were almost all not about her ideas etc but concentrated on her appearance in that picture. I am no fan of her policies or past history of deceit but find the attacks over appearance by alleged adults to be very disquieting. FWIW, I felt the same way about Rush Limbaugh's attacks on Chelsea Clinton; if I were Bill Clinton I think I would have resigned then punched that assclown right in the mouth. If someone wants to call out a person over their politics or voting etc record that's fine, go right ahead. Knock off the personal attacks.

The unfortunate thing is this goes right back to the creation of the US, along with every so called civilized country on the planet. Need a recent example? The Japanese Diet along with various other Pacific Rim Parliaments have been the scene of fistfights, for crying out loud. The real problem is the cussedness of human beings and I don't know how to fix that.

There's a lot more that I have considered but there's not enough bandwidth for me to cover it all. I will say that I have become disgusted by the political process worldwide, not just here.

I don't know if any of you have witnessed politicians move from the local to the state level, but it's interesting. Getting the approval and support you need from your party of choice isn't as easy as showing up and wearing the right color tie. You very much need to become part of the machine. Politicians are sorted and homogenized long before they make the national scene. A few exceptions, but not many.
Now couple that with jerrymandering. The district you vote it was drawn in a very specific way to support one party or the other. You are very seldom choosing between the parties, but rather between the candidates of the party that was going to win, and THAT voting was done in the primaries long before the general elections took place. That's why we have the reelection rate we do.
We have a very strong "my team" culture here. Well, human beings in general have that, but the system in the US is set up pretty well to exploit those feelings. We're pretty unlikely to have any sort of real push back in this country because "my team" is working against "your team" and that makes me pretty content. I'll sit in my basement and polish my bullets and cans of food, but someone is already fighting for me, so I don't have to. And if anyone doesn't think the parties change through time in response to the people, just look at the parties now vs. The 60's and then around the Great Depression and back to the civil war. Party change happens at about the same rate as the change in the general population, pretty damn slow.
And THAT is the main point I'm getting at. Change in political parties happens slowly, much more slowly than it happens in an individual. Your early political/social views almost certainly mirrored your parents. They taught you values and right and wrong, so it makes sense. Then you learn about the world as a young adult and they change. Then a young parent, home owner and singnifcant (it feels like) tax payer. Finally, someone who is likely to live largely on the gifts of society through SS and Medicare. We individually change faster than politics. At some points in our lives we will feel aileniated by the system, at others, fairly well represented. It's fun to rib my parents about their extremely liberal political stances in the late 60's/early 70's when they now have Fox News on 8 hours a day.
TL;DR: Go Team!

Curmudgeon wrote: I also have seen something else I find disturbing: on Farcebook there was a recent feed or whatever you call it which was started by a picture of Hilary Clinton. The comments were almost all not about her ideas etc but concentrated on her appearance in that picture. I am no fan of her policies or past history of deceit but find the attacks over appearance by alleged adults to be very disquieting. FWIW, I felt the same way about Rush Limbaugh's attacks on Chelsea Clinton; if I were Bill Clinton I think I would have resigned then punched that assclown right in the mouth. If someone wants to call out a person over their politics or voting etc record that's fine, go right ahead. Knock off the personal attacks.

I have been through this and it is why I stay away from political talk on forums.. on a sailing forum I am on, there is a large contingent of fairly right winger who will not call our President "Mr. President" or "President Obama". I will not recite the words they prefer, but to say they are unflattering would be a gross understatement.

I will admit I did not care for our Last President's policies.. but ht was still "Mr. President" and "President Bush" to me as that was a title he earned and assumed when he took office.

If not for Dysfunction, there would be no function at all in the US government