That wasn't on the quiz. 
Seriously, though, I did not know about the credits for small businesses who cover more than 50% of their employees' insurance premiums.
That wasn't on the quiz.
Seriously, though, I did not know about the credits for small businesses who cover more than 50% of their employees' insurance premiums.
Knurled wrote: The quiz was easy.
Quiz said: You answered better than 97% of Americans.
\ That was the funny part.
Knurled wrote: That wasn't on the quiz.
There is a lot of stuff in there no one knows about. It's embarrassing that everyone is so bent out of shape over something they know so little about. A few folks started spreading their side of things and bingo - that's what it is.
It's not perfect, and not what I wanted, but it's nothing like the abomination it's being painted to be. It's ludicrous to listen to the rants and raves about "government run health care". That's not what it is. Not even close. That is a lie. Shoot, even if we'd gotten what I wanted, single payer insurance, it wouldn't be socialized medicine or government run health care. You think doctors in Canada work for the government? Nope. Private practice, just like in the U.S. But how many times have I heard "responsible" politicians rail against the "government run health care" we're supposed to be getting?
There are plenty of things to be unhappy about in the plan, but please, read a summery of what is actually in it and make up your own mind. We complain about the politicians and how the whole lot of them are crooked, then can't jump on their bandwagon fast enough or spread their misleading nonsense far enough. Just look at it and see what you think.
A little less drama and a few more facts would go a long way. I don't know how it will work out. Unlike everyone else in America, apparently, I'm not an expert on medicine, insurance or constitutional law. We'll have to see. But it should be better than what we have now. More than half the bankruptcies in the US are related to health care. Who do you think ends up paying for that? And there are people complaining that they'll have to pay for someone else's health care? Man, you already are- and in about as inefficient a manner as you possibly can.
fast_eddie_72 wrote: More than half the bankruptcies in the US are related to health care. Who do you think ends up paying for that? And there are people complaining that they'll have to pay for someone else's health care? Man, you already are- and in about as inefficient a manner as you possibly can.
It's a total racket. There's no other business that can financially destroy not just a person but an entire family, without their consent.
And, like you say, we're already paying for it in a highly inefficient manner.
Knurled wrote: It's a total racket. There's no other business that can financially destroy not just a person but an entire family, without their consent.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did they make getting treatment MANDATORY?
You pretty much have to consent to anything they do to you. You may not like the alternative, but you DO have to agree to accept the treatment.
In reply to Duke:
What if I have a heart attack in the middle of WalMart? What do you think the bill would be on the emergency services, hospital services, etc.?
Conquest351 wrote: I know for a fact that most of the time when you offer to pay cash for medical expenses, they will cut it in half. We did that for my daughter's birth and some of the things my 16 yo has needed recently. The difference between the Insurance Price and the Cash Price was consistantly 45-50%. THAT is what's wrong with the medical care here in the US. Overpriced for no damn reason.
Not to call you out on that, but that's probably not accurate.
What you're paying cash for is more likely the "Usual and Customary" negotiated rate that the provider worked out with the insurance companies.
The original "Insurance Price" is called the "billed charge" and is really only used as a bargaining chip. The provider puts out that ridiculously inflated charge in negotiations with the insurance company in order to get their negotiated charge higher. It's really just a form of bargaining.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:Conquest351 wrote: I know for a fact that most of the time when you offer to pay cash for medical expenses, they will cut it in half. We did that for my daughter's birth and some of the things my 16 yo has needed recently. The difference between the Insurance Price and the Cash Price was consistantly 45-50%. THAT is what's wrong with the medical care here in the US. Overpriced for no damn reason.Not to call you out on that, but that's probably not accurate. What you're paying cash for is more likely the "Usual and Customary" negotiated rate that the provider worked out with the insurance companies. The original "Insurance Price" is called the "billed charge" and is really only used as a bargaining chip. The provider puts out that ridiculously inflated charge in negotiations with the insurance company in order to get their negotiated charge higher. It's really just a form of bargaining.
Exactly. And this is why I called bullE36 M3 in the other healthcare thread when claims were made that you can get 80-90% taken off your bill. If a healthcare provider accepts less than the negotiated rate, they either figure you are a deadbeat and they better take anything they can get or you are a welfare case.
But yeah, 50% of the bill is about right. Nobody pays 100%, not cash people, not medicare, not medicaid, not insurance companies, so the 100% amount is irrelevant to the discussion.
Cash is cheaper by a lot.
I just want one person to tell me why they and their life choices are my responsibility. Like SS, you didn't save but some how thats my burden to now. You went to the doctor and some how now I have to pay for it. You sent your kids to public school and I have to foot the bill.
What ever happen to liberty and freedom? Why did it have to become servitude and confiscation of my money to give away to others?
fast_eddie_72 wrote: This is a 10 question quiz that's pretty interesting: http://healthreform.kff.org/quizzes/health-reform-quiz.aspx Lots of stuff in there (and lots of stuff not in there) that you'd never guess listening to the debates.
I got nine out of ten.
Duke wrote:Knurled wrote: It's a total racket. There's no other business that can financially destroy not just a person but an entire family, without their consent.Correct me if I'm wrong, but did they make getting treatment MANDATORY? You pretty much have to consent to anything they do to you. You may not like the alternative, but you DO have to agree to accept the treatment.
If you are unconscious, consent is assumed.
ThePhranc wrote: Cash is cheaper by a lot. I just want one person to tell me why they and their life choices are my responsibility. Like SS, you didn't save but some how thats my burden to now. You went to the doctor and some how now I have to pay for it. You sent your kids to public school and I have to foot the bill. What ever happen to liberty and freedom? Why did it have to become servitude and confiscation of my money to give away to others?
Being that you currently have no insurance, you're in prime position to answer that question on the flip side as well.
ThePhranc wrote: Cash is cheaper by a lot. I just want one person to tell me why they and their life choices are my responsibility. Like SS, you didn't save but some how thats my burden to now. You went to the doctor and some how now I have to pay for it. You sent your kids to public school and I have to foot the bill. What ever happen to liberty and freedom? Why did it have to become servitude and confiscation of my money to give away to others?
Because you weren't born in mogadishu
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:ThePhranc wrote: Cash is cheaper by a lot. I just want one person to tell me why they and their life choices are my responsibility. Like SS, you didn't save but some how thats my burden to now. You went to the doctor and some how now I have to pay for it. You sent your kids to public school and I have to foot the bill. What ever happen to liberty and freedom? Why did it have to become servitude and confiscation of my money to give away to others?Being that you currently have no insurance, you're in prime position to answer that question on the flip side as well.
Being that I pay my own bills I am not a burden to others.
oldtin wrote:ThePhranc wrote: Cash is cheaper by a lot. I just want one person to tell me why they and their life choices are my responsibility. Like SS, you didn't save but some how thats my burden to now. You went to the doctor and some how now I have to pay for it. You sent your kids to public school and I have to foot the bill. What ever happen to liberty and freedom? Why did it have to become servitude and confiscation of my money to give away to others?Because you weren't born in mogadishu
Funny you would pick that place as somewhere with more liberty and freedom.
ThePhranc wrote:oldtin wrote:Funny you would pick that place as somewhere with more liberty and freedom.ThePhranc wrote: Cash is cheaper by a lot. I just want one person to tell me why they and their life choices are my responsibility. Like SS, you didn't save but some how thats my burden to now. You went to the doctor and some how now I have to pay for it. You sent your kids to public school and I have to foot the bill. What ever happen to liberty and freedom? Why did it have to become servitude and confiscation of my money to give away to others?Because you weren't born in mogadishu
Funny "haha" or funny weird?
ThePhranc wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:Being that I pay my own bills I am not a burden to others.ThePhranc wrote: Cash is cheaper by a lot. I just want one person to tell me why they and their life choices are my responsibility. Like SS, you didn't save but some how thats my burden to now. You went to the doctor and some how now I have to pay for it. You sent your kids to public school and I have to foot the bill. What ever happen to liberty and freedom? Why did it have to become servitude and confiscation of my money to give away to others?Being that you currently have no insurance, you're in prime position to answer that question on the flip side as well.
That's not what insurance is.
When you CAN'T pay your bill, you WILL be a burden to others. Your choice inevitably becomes a burden on others, in the same exact way that you're complaining in this thread.
Your choice would ultimately become my responsibility if you were to be involved in an accident that resulted in huge medical bills that you couldn't afford.
So yeah.
Why should your life choices be my responsibility?
While i don't like the bill, i'm REALLY not mad that you're probably being forced to get insurance. You're less of a liability to me if you have insurance. Less my responsibility.
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
I was going to say that, going to point out how he already gets his bills discounted to the point where the rest of us already pay some of his healthcare expenses, etc. But I give up. Some people join a discussion to learn, some just to argue.
Otto Maddox wrote: Some people join a discussion to learn, some just to argue.
I really like that. Thanks
Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: I was going to say that, going to point out how he already gets his bills discounted to the point where the rest of us already pay some of his healthcare expenses, etc. But I give up. Some people join a discussion to learn, some just to argue.
How is it that "gets his bills discounted to the point where the rest of us already pay some of his healthcare expenses"? Is he delinquent on his bills or is he just paying cash? (please forgive me if I missed a post where he is settling a delinquent debt for reduced rates)
ThePhranc wrote: Funny you would pick that place as somewhere with more liberty and freedom.
Why funny? People say they want less government - how about none? - effectively no rules or regulations, you don't have to pay for other people's kids to go to school, no taxes, no service - you can do what you want - the ultimate in laissez-faire - every man for himself. Somalis are unburdened by a government. They have however much liberty and freedom they can enforce.
In reply to mguar:
Eisenhower the General saw the potential for moving troops, equipment, and armaments quickly around this large country of ours. It is nice that it also allows us to get to our vacation destinations too! The Germans were only copying the Romans, btw.
MrJoshua wrote:Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: I was going to say that, going to point out how he already gets his bills discounted to the point where the rest of us already pay some of his healthcare expenses, etc. But I give up. Some people join a discussion to learn, some just to argue.How is it that "gets his bills discounted to the point where the rest of us already pay some of his healthcare expenses"? Is he delinquent on his bills or is he just paying cash? (please forgive me if I missed a post where he is settling a delinquent debt for reduced rates)
He's stated before in these discussions that he gets 80-90% off services. At a write off that big, it's impacting other people.
Even if it's really only a ~50% reduction and he's exaggerating, he's still taking advantage of the negotiations that the insured have paid for through their premiums.
Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: I was going to say that, going to point out how he already gets his bills discounted to the point where the rest of us already pay some of his healthcare expenses, etc. But I give up. Some people join a discussion to learn, some just to argue.
Actually you don't subsidize me. I pay the cost for the service provided. You pay more then I do. If you paid cash you too would pay less. Clearly the doctor knows what something costs and is still making money off of me at the lower rate.
Its ok if you don't understand how business works.
oldtin wrote:ThePhranc wrote: Funny you would pick that place as somewhere with more liberty and freedom.Why funny? People say they want less government - how about none? - effectively no rules or regulations, you don't have to pay for other people's kids to go to school, no taxes, no service - you can do what you want - the ultimate in laissez-faire - every man for himself. Somalis are unburdened by a government. They have however much liberty and freedom they can enforce.
Argument adsurdum. Its an intellectually dishonest approach used when some one can't actually justify their argument and instead come up with an argument so absurd to discredit the other person. Too bad they only discredit them self. See you have to create a false argument because you can't actually refute mine.
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