An ode to the humble minivan

I used to daily a Mazda 5. I think of it as a bigger and more useful Hatchback, not a smaller minivan. It's fun to drive, has a slick manual transmission, and looks decent. On the other hand, no disappearing seats, tiny cargo space, and near unusable 3rd row. On top of that, I rarely saw better than about 26 mpg.

We rented a Caravan on a vacation with 4 adults and a toddler. It was the superior vehicle in every way except driving excitement. We will probably get a Pentastar caravan for our next car.

In reply to tuna55:

But all of my camping gear is in there with me. And I'd really, really like to keep the bike (worth more than freakin van) inside as well.

Also, anyone looking at late-model Pentastar vans, avoid one with the old 3.3L OHV V6. Meager power and gas mileage (I average low/mid-20's, driving fairly conservatively). Even with a lot of hwy driving at 70 mph, the best I've seen is about 25.5 mpg.

bastomatic wrote: I used to daily a Mazda 5. I think of it as a bigger and more useful Hatchback, not a smaller minivan. It's fun to drive, has a slick manual transmission, and looks decent. On the other hand, no disappearing seats, tiny cargo space, and near unusable 3rd row. On top of that, I rarely saw better than about 26 mpg.

Does the 3rd row not fold down at all? Are the buckets in the center row removable?

Ian F wrote: In reply to tuna55: But all of my camping gear is in there with me. And I'd really, really like to keep the bike (worth more than freakin van) inside as well.

I'm kinda in the same boat, but replace "bike" with "wife".

Ideally I'd installed a hitch and use my hitch rack locked entirely to the van. Still need enough space inside to sleep comfortably and have a divider installed behind front seats.

Ian F wrote: Also, anyone looking at late-model Pentastar vans, avoid one with the old 3.3L OHV V6. Meager power and gas mileage (I average low/mid-20's, driving fairly conservatively). Even with a lot of hwy driving at 70 mph, the best I've seen is about 25.5 mpg.

It's not as bad as all that. The Battle Bus had the 3.3. If you have a full load it does struggle a little, especially with the AC on, but it will hold its own in traffic. Economy is not excellent. With mixed driving you'll get around 20. But it is pretty bulletproof and low-maintenance. The 3.8 is undeniably more powerful, but I wouldn't put a huge premium on it for a utility vehicle.

In reply to Duke:

You say that as I'm about to put mine in for service to fix a leaking coolant system... apparently some bypass pipe on the back of the engine has rusted...

I will agree it's easy to service. In an engine bay designed for a DOHC V6, that little OHV engine looks tiny.

I think part of the MPG hit is due to the old 4 spd trans compared to the 5 spds others have.

Lastly... for a utility vehicle, I'd want the more powerful engine for the increased towing capacity.

Well, yeah, for towing, I get it, but a minivan probably isn't the weapon of choice for towing anything other than a small sailboat, a couple motorcycles, or a gardening trailer anyway.

Sucks to hear about the rusty coolant pipe.

In reply to Duke:

Agreed, but the engine and trans in my van feels strained at times just moving its own weight around. I'd like to be able to tow a small cargo or travel trailer, but I think the trans would explode. With the larger engines these vans were available with towing packages.

I've towed many small cars on a dolly behind my minivan, including one of our LeMons racers. Sure I noticed the weight behind me, but I never felt like I was going to lunch the tranny or throw a rod. Ease from a stop light, extra braking distance and highway speeds under 70mph and it's fine. We also towed our 6x8 landscape trailer loaded with all sorts of things quite often.

It's not an ideal tow vehicle, but for small or lighter jobs, it's fine.

Ian, what are the years/specs on your van? Its not in your profile garage.

I used to get 3.3 Caravans as loaners when the MPV was in for an oil change. I would not own one.

I rented a dodge caravan newer where the seats folded in the floor and I was able to fit 3 karts resting side by side, 4 engines, parts, stands, and a basement full of parts. I would have never been able to fit all of that in a truck. I will see if I can find the picture it is on my old non-smart phone.

In reply to PHeller:

It's a 2008. Only options are Stow-n-Go and rear HVAC controls. I'm not saying I hate it - I've put almost 40K miles on it since Dec-13 - and it's been reliable. I do kinda wish I'd splurged on the nicer/newer/lower-miles/more-optioned 2011 T&C the dealer also had at the time. But it was also twice the price.

Ian F wrote: In reply to PHeller: It's a 2008. Only options are Stow-n-Go and rear HVAC controls. I'm not saying I hate it - I've put almost 40K miles on it since Dec-13 - and it's been reliable. I do kinda wish I'd splurged on the nicer/newer/lower-miles/more-optioned 2011 T&C the dealer also had at the time. But it was also twice the price.

Well, that's what led me to buying the Concert Coach. I had a 70,000-mile 2000 GC Sport that got totaled. They gave me $4000 for it. I found an identical van, same mileage, condition, trim, color, everything - except AWD with the 3.8 - for $4000. I almost bought that one, but decided to move up to something newer. Once I got looking at the options, I wanted a 5th gen. Conventional internet wisdom told me to look past the 2008-2010 models, so then I was shopping 2011 GCs and T&Cs in the Touring trim. We drove a 2011 T&C Limited, and that's the one that stuck with us while we were thinking about all the other options. Mrs. Duke loved the van, but we didn't like the color combination on that one, and I was worried about the smaller brakes... so we wound up with a 2012 T&C Limited, pretty much all the way up, except the towing package (though it has the load-leveling suspension).

Mrs. Duke had a minor freakout about the scope creep, but after sleeping on it for a couple days, she settled down and we pulled the trigger. It was a 36-month lease return with solid service records, it's got 45k on the clock, it's Near Mint, and we paid just a hair over 50% of the original sticker price. I don't think we'll regret it.

It's a real shame the Euro-Crafter vans are getting such poor reviews, because I think for many they'd be an excellent alternative to the now extinct small, fuel efficient pickup.

The dodge website says that a strippy Caravan should cost $19,600 on the lot. That's absurdly cheap.

PHeller wrote: It's a real shame the Euro-Crafter vans are getting such poor reviews, because I think for many they'd be an excellent alternative to the now extinct small, fuel efficient pickup.

Is that the VW van? I had to google "Euro-Crafter vans" and that's all that showed up.

I thoughts that's what they call those car based vans like the Transit Connect, Ram ProMaster City, Nissan/Chevy NV200.

I guess not.

Ah... depends on where you are, maybe? Bad reviews or not, I see Connects and Ram C/V's everywhere around here. NV200's less so, but I don't see many of their full-sized vans either.

Klayfish wrote:

bastomatic wrote: I used to daily a Mazda 5. I think of it as a bigger and more useful Hatchback, not a smaller minivan. It's fun to drive, has a slick manual transmission, and looks decent. On the other hand, no disappearing seats, tiny cargo space, and near unusable 3rd row. On top of that, I rarely saw better than about 26 mpg.

Does the 3rd row not fold down at all? Are the buckets in the center row removable?

On the mazda5, all seats fold down. None stow below the load floor, and they make a relatively flat-ish floor. There are lots of pockets and crannies where the second row folds down that makes it a less than ideal surface for cargo.

Compared to the stow-n-go, it's awful.

Can you really fit 4x8 sheet goods in the pentastar vans?

mazdeuce wrote: Can you really fit 4x8 sheet goods in the pentastar vans?

Yes.

mazdeuce wrote: Can you really fit 4x8 sheet goods in the pentastar vans?

Absolutely. I could close the hatch on a dozen sheets of drywall in the Battle Bus. It's possible in the Concert Coach, too, but it will be a while before I try.

mazdeuce wrote: Can you really fit 4x8 sheet goods in the pentastar vans?

See the pic I started this thread with? That's a 4x8 sheet of oak sitting happily in the enclosed space.

Ah crap. This might be exactly what I need. Somehow I missed that these were that big inside. Hauling the whole family in the truck is getting cramped and because I'm always there to pick up the kids I'm getting increasingly asked to ferry other kids. I basically need safe and practical. I can tickle my with the other stuff in the Grosh.