..and here we go - E-mail on interfaith marriage gets St. Charles man on no-fly list

E-mail on interfaith marriage gets St. Charles man on no-fly list

Abe Mashal, a 31-year-old dog trainer from St. Charles, says FBI agents told him he ended up on the government’s no-fly list because he exchanged e-mails with a Muslim cleric they were monitoring.

The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security, which enforces the no-fly list, wouldn’t comment. In October, Homeland Security sent Mashal a letter saying that it had reviewed his file and that “it has been determined that no changes or corrections are warranted at this time.”

The no-fly list is really about keeping us safer. Really. It's not about making someone toe the line or used as a bludgeon to blackmail someone into being an informer. The no-fly list is not punitive at all. Nope. You want to make something of it? Here, put your name on this list.

I think that article raises as many questions about the "victim" as it does about the no-fly list.

Senator Joe sends a posthumous "I APPROVE!"

Before I have a brainsplosion, I'd love to hear corroboration and/or the FBI's line. "No comment" isn't very compelling...

While this is certainly only one side of the story, I don't see how this raises questions about the guy on the no-fly list. Does it give us a complete picture of him? No. But the only reason I have to think twice about him is that the FBI noticed him.

I wonder whether the actual original email's around... Was it the recipient or the content that was worrisome?

I'm trying very hard to give the FBI the benefit of the doubt here. Whether that's warranted is another question, but since I'm not an expert on this subject...

In reply to ransom:

The article makes no mention of the cleric's location or prior affiliation with Mashal. Is the cleric one associated with Mashal's mosque? Why did Mashal seek the advice of this particlual cleric instead of others. Why is Mashal seeking inter-faith parenting advice AFTER becoming a parent? Wouldn't a former Marine have some concerns and use due diligence when seeking email advice?

To me the only reason to be on a no fly list to stop a bomber or highjacker. Check the snot out of somebody that is on the list. Don't you trust the TSA to do their job? Many people are on these lists for no apparent good reason. And talking to the FBI doesn't get you removed.

I know someone on the no-fly list because one of his hobbies is taking pictures of abandoned buildings. Serious.

If the TSA did screw up by letting people on the no-fly list actually fly, i might be more inclined to worry about this problem thats further along the chain...

as it is, they can't/don't consistantly perform their job.

My problem isn't enforcing the list per-se, it's the list that I have a problem with. It's far too large and has people on it that don't need to be on it, like my friend that's on it for taking pictures.

And no, there's nothing more to my friend's case. He's been arrested a couple of times for trespassing, but no charges were ever brought up. We're talking abandoned hospitals here, not ultra sensitive power plants.

oldsaw wrote: In reply to ransom: 1) Is the cleric one associated with Mashal's mosque? 2) Why did Mashal seek the advice of this particlual cleric instead of others. 3) Why is Mashal seeking inter-faith parenting advice AFTER becoming a parent? 4) Wouldn't a former Marine have some concerns and use due diligence when seeking email advice?

1) Does it matter?
2) Perhaps this guy is noted for this issue. Again, does it matter?
3) Who says that he didn't before? Again, does it matter?
4) Really? You think there is a problem seeking advice from email? How is that any different than seeking advice on a web-forum?

If the guy is telling the truth (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), he should not be on that no-fly list.

In reply to oldsaw:

I thought about it, and I started to say that I shared a couple of your questions. But then I thought further, and I'm not sure whether to dump my gripes at the feet of the Associated Press or of the authorities. I want to know what attempts were made to get a comment, and about what.

Without that info, my thoughts run towards wondering how much we should impinge on someone's ability to live their life before we have to file charges and provide the opportunity to clear one's name.

In the meantime, this guy's undergoing a sort of partial detention with no opportunity to address the issue. It is my understanding and belief that we do not do that sort of thing in the U.S., and that this is one of the really good things about being here.

In reply to mtn:

Mashal may be an innocent victim. If so, he should be immediately removed from every no-fly list.

What matters is that the article only presents one side of the issue. There is no reporting of the cleric's affiliations and what may have put him under scrutiny in the first place. Nor is there any background on Mashal's possible attempts to get advice from other sources. Omissions prompt unanswered questions.

The responses from the FBI and DHS should raise questions but the article is decidely one-sided.

I have to wonder if there are additional factors (training or knowledge possessed by Mashal) being withheld.

Has Mashal always been a Muslim ?

Just thinking out loud here....

spitfirebill wrote: To me the only reason to be on a no fly list to stop a bomber or highjacker. Check the snot out of somebody that is on the list. Don't you trust the TSA to do their job? Many people are on these lists for no apparent good reason. And talking to the FBI doesn't get you removed.

I agree here.. the "no fly" list should be a "strip search" list and "go through your luggage with a magnifying glass" list.

I love abandoned buildings. I want to make a coffee book of forgotten places.

I wonder how many of us are being watched right now because of this board?

EastCoastMojo wrote: I love abandoned buildings. I want to make a coffee book of forgotten places.

If you hate flying, take some pictures of buildings and kill two birds with one stone.

I question why there is a no-fly list in the first place. I can see a targeted "Person of Interest" list where you have additional/more scrutinous screening in case you have concealed a device in your anus or something but... just a blanket "No flying for you" seems like a punishment for behaving in a certain way and that is a sign of more interesting things to come...

You guys aren't commies are ya?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Senator Joe sends a posthumous "I APPROVE!"

So does his successor Peter King.

"Are you now, or have you ever been, in contact with a Muslim? Are you, yourself, a Muslim?"

In reply to RexSeven:

Indeed. Witch hunts, communist hunts, now Muslim hunts.

These are just the really obvious ones. I know way too little history, and the more tiny bits I find out, the more of a page-turner it becomes. At the same time, it seems disheartening how short a period of time it takes to either forget the lesson or forget the entire episode.

In reply to EastCoastMojo:

It's been done. You have an e-mail.

I'm not on the no fly list but am flagged for "hightened" security screening. What that means is I get to go in a little room with two TSA agents. We play 20 questions, they make me empty my pockets, remove my belt and shoes, they wave the wand over me and send me thru a sniffer, my carry on is unpacked and inspected, my checked baggage apears and is unpacked and inspected. Then a dog sniffs everything and I get an escort thru the terminal.

I fedex stuff to where ever I am going and carry on only enough to get me thru 1 night.

When the security lines are heavy I can get thru quicker.

I rarely fly anymore so its no big deal, I just plan accordingly.

YAY for the patriot act... I mean. It has the word patriot in it right? How bad could it be..

Good job people who voted for Bush.

huge-O-chavez wrote: YAY for the patriot act... I mean. It has the word patriot in it right? How bad could it be.. Good job people who voted for Bush.

Really dude? That is just an shiny happy person comment. Most of the folks I know who voted for him weren't happy with him either. Dislike or hate or despise him. Not the folks who voted for him.

mtn wrote:

huge-O-chavez wrote: YAY for the patriot act... I mean. It has the word patriot in it right? How bad could it be.. Good job people who voted for Bush.

Really dude? That is an Ignorant comment. Most of the folks I know who voted for him weren't happy with him either. Dislike or hate or despise him. Not the folks who voted for him.

ftfy..............

It's Iggy up to his old tricks. If the Patriot Act was/is such a bad idea (and it is) then his idol would have abolished it.