And we keep voting for these people!

As bad as this post has been, I really got a laugh out of some Republican Congressperson berating the president for taking "another vacation" (his Martha's Vineyard vacation is only about 10 days) while completely forgetting that congress took a few weeks off for the 4th of July and is currently on a 5 WEEK vacation.

And to sort of stay on topic? is the Israel "lobby" really that strong?

again a bit OT but in the thoughts of dumping the electoral college I found this http://www.270towin.com/

it's a map showing the way the state voted going all the way back to 1789... sort of fun to look at as you can see how 3rd parties played into things a bit... also interesting as you can see that back then before the states did the one party takes all votes system how things looked... come 1824 they start showing the popular vote... also just for fun look at 1864...

integraguy wrote: And to sort of stay on topic? is the Israel "lobby" really that strong?

It's not the strength of any particular lobby that has me upset, rather it is the weakness of our elected representatives.

it's the whole "if it can't bend it will break" thing .. which is fine for most people's spines.. but the backbones of most politicians seem to flap in the wind

Sometimes a system cannot be changed by following the rules created to protect the system. There is a lot of sacrifice for anyone involved...by definition - you are involved in an illegal undertaking. The problem with this country is that Americans are still pretty comfortable despite hard times. We have too much to lose to shove change down the throat of government. We are fat, dumb and mostly not desperate enough to risk status quo for the hope of something better. Without the threat of consequence, corruption breeds like cockroaches.

very true GPS... even at our worst.. we still live better than most 3rd world countries

carguy123 wrote: The Electoral college doesn't allow for a third party and since they are the ones that actually do the voting that counts that's the limiting factor. But since there's really no need for the electoral college anymore the first step is to get rid of them.

You and I rarely agree, but on this topic, we do in its entirety.

integraguy wrote: As bad as this post has been, I really got a laugh out of some Republican Congressperson berating the president for taking "another vacation" (his Martha's Vineyard vacation is only about 10 days) while completely forgetting that congress took a few weeks off for the 4th of July and is currently on a 5 WEEK vacation. And to sort of stay on topic? is the Israel "lobby" really that strong?

Gotcha there. It DOES look bad when O goes on lavish vacation very often, but Congress did it more and Bush did it a lot more.

My Dad has a picture of a guy in jail with a fat font that says "RE-ELECT NO ONE"

sorry, but i have to point out that these two stories are faux-outrage. the first article from PressTV is basically a mouthpiece for this lady Medea Benjamin, who aside from being head of an "anti-war" group, seems to be at least pro-palestine if not anti-israel. the article shows her cards in the last line:

She said they were planning to meet with those Congresspersons to “question them about their trip and also give them our opinion which is very different from the opinion of the AIPAC of what the conditions are in Israel for the Palestinians.”

the second article from huffington post, is written by Michael Berg, who's affiliation is just below his name at the top of the article: Member, St. Louis Palestine Solidarity Committee and Jewish Voice for Peace

I have a feeling that these people are more trying to punish those congresspersons who went on an AIPAC-paid trip to Israel by painting them as not caring about the "financial crisis" going on in their districts. and i'm sure there are no jewish people in any of those districts either....

Nice to know the Israeli tail is still shaking the American dog.

Eh, if voting actually changed anything..it would be illegal.

friedgreencorrado wrote: Eh, if voting actually changed anything..it would be illegal.

Voting led directly to our recent outrage on raising the debt ceiling. So, voting changes things but not always in the manner one hopes.

As for the OP and at least one subsequent post, the two linked articles were written by individuals with agendas against Israel's decision to defend itself (with force when necessary). In reality, American legislators are far more likely to be influenced by domestic practitioners of Judaism. You know, the ones who vote overwhemlingly for Democrats.

oldsaw wrote: ....You know, the ones who vote overwhelmingly for Democrats.

Is that really true? (do you have any evidence to back that up) You would think they would favor the Reps since they seem to have the least reluctance to funnel money to Israel (or military spending in general).

Of course, the "issue" of Israel might cross the lines since it can be seen as both a social related and military related issue.

I've been voting for 35 years, sad to say all too often it's become a vote for the lesser of two evils. I can see why some voters become apathetic... but that's still no reason not to vote.

fasted58 wrote: I've been voting for 35 years, sad to say all too often it's become a vote for the lesser of two evils. I can see why some voters become apathetic... but that's still no reason not to vote.

So have I, and I'm done. Citizens United vs. FEC killed it for me. I used to think it was all rhetoric by my younger friends, but I don't think it's tinfoil hat stuff anymore..

aircooled wrote:

oldsaw wrote: ....You know, the ones who vote overwhelmingly for Democrats.

Is that really true? (do you have any evidence to back that up) You would think they would favor the Reps since they seem to have the least reluctance to funnel money to Israel (or military spending in general). Of course, the "issue" of Israel might cross the lines since it can be seen as both a social related and military related issue.

The evidence is out there:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3325529,00.html

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/128242

http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp509.htm

oldsaw wrote:

aircooled wrote:

oldsaw wrote: ....You know, the ones who vote overwhelmingly for Democrats.

Is that really true? (do you have any evidence to back that up) You would think they would favor the Reps since they seem to have the least reluctance to funnel money to Israel (or military spending in general). Of course, the "issue" of Israel might cross the lines since it can be seen as both a social related and military related issue.

The evidence is out there: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3325529,00.html http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/128242 http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp509.htm

What evidence? Your link shows the Jewish vote went Republican once in 1920!

I guess 1 vote in the last 96 years is reasonably overwhelming.

I was kind of hoping AC was kidding.

Look, there are plenty of other articles written about the trip. The trip is a fact and i find it an outrage no matter who is reporting it. Toss aside the authors' agendas and focus on the facts. 20% of our congress thinks it's ok to essentially accept a bribe from what amounts to a foreign government.

In reply to T.J.:

I guess that means you're opposed to any/all Congressional trip outside the country, if they aren't directly paid for by those traveling.

For the record, I have similar sentiments for those who accept campaign donations from corporations and unions. After all, those are tantamount to bribes, too.

I have no issues with congressional junkets outside the country.. especially when it something directly related to the job we elected them to do.. brib..er.. donated trips are fishy

In reply to oldsaw:

Trips on our dime are one thing. I think they get abused at times, but at least they are spending the US government's money on those trips. I'm not against trips to other countries as a rule, just ones paid for by other country's lobby groups provided as a free gift or vacation.

carguy123 wrote:

Joshua wrote: Freshman=Tea-Party?

Freshmen= ANY Party members that were recently elected.

Well obviously but everytime I have heard the term "freshman" in the last year it was referring to the gung ho tea party types since they seem to make up the bulk of the recently elected.

Joshua wrote:

carguy123 wrote:

Joshua wrote: Freshman=Tea-Party?

Freshmen= ANY Party members that were recently elected.

Well obviously but everytime I have heard the term "freshman" in the last year it was referring to the gung ho tea party types since they seem to make up the bulk of the recently elected.

There's a good reason for that.