Another Thread About Garden Tractors....

My hand-me-down Troy-Bilt LTX-1842 lawn tractor seems to have finally kicked the bucket. Thought I was having carb/fuel issues, so I replaced the carb, only to have it do the same thing. I think the rings went on it, because I'm getting a heavily soaked plug and SEVERE blow-by. I disconnected the vent tube to the carb, and it just pukes oil out. It's not overfilled, either. After 25 years of service, it's probably time to retire the old gal. Here's a couple pics of what I'm dealing with (Excuse the yard mess, in the middle of moving back into my house and cleaning up the property): 





As you can see, the thing is not happy. 

Anyway, I am finding myself in the market for a garden tractor. I've wanted one for a while; they seem more useful, since they can use various attachments to perform tasks around the yard. I wouldn't mind grabbing one with a snowblower and/or plow, because that would be useful. Seems like $500 should buy me a used, running unit with a mowing deck. My friends tell me I want a Hydrostatic unit because they are easier to use, and I tend to agree. I have a friend that's into old IH Cub Cadets, and another friend that's into old Deeres. I'm also considering other makes like Wheel Horse, Ariens, and Simplicity. Even some of the old Sears tractors look like they have potential. 

What should I be looking for in a garden tractor? Any particular models to keep an eye out for, and similarly, ones to stay away from? 
 

I like my Ariens (GT16) for the rear/mid/front hydraulic lift. I have it set up with Cat 1 three point and really only use it with the rear blade now or to tow stuff around the yard. It only gets used about once or twice a year unfortunately. 

Something with rear PTO would be nice for additional equipment options. 

I briefly had a Deere GT235 that I gave to my inlaws. Dislikes were weaker frame than the older stuff and it is having issues with the interlock module that would be easier bypassed if it used a simpler system. It did run and mow well though. 

Make sure you can find parts before picking a brand. My local cub dealer can still get me stuff for the IH cubs I love, but they aren't cheap. The long PTO belt for rear accessories is over $150 now, just for an example. 

Most of them have pretty good followings these days, if you can deal with the Facebook groups. Lots of people out there are stepping up to fill parts holes which is nice to see as well.

As I said, I'm a fan of IH Cubs, specifically the Quiet line series of the late 70s. They have a variant of the Kohler K3 series engine which is pretty much bulletproof. 1000,1200,1400,1600 are manual transmission, the XX50s are hydrostatic. Having had both, I like the hydrostatic better. The first 2 numbers denote horsepower. They have an electric PTO on the front of the motor, and use different belts for different things, like deck, tiller, snow blower.

Some were available with hydraulic lifts and accessories. These don't necessarily command a premium, but they can. 

If you're going to want a tiller, buy one that comes with it. I've been trying to sell just a tiller and people are complaining that I'm not selling the gearbox with it. Apparently they're hard to find by themselves. 

Prices I've been seeing are kind of all over the place. Locally, a runner with a mower deck and plow are usually $500-700. 

Make sure it doesn't smoke or knock, use the right fluids in the right places, and they're pretty much indestructible. 

I picked up a 1969 Cub 125 with a plow, winch, snow tires and chains for $600 last year. PO replaced the muffler, but it's so loud it might as well be a straight pipe. Any suggestions Rico? I love the hydrostatic BTW. 

In reply to clutchsmoke :

That looks like whatever the farm store or farm had on hand. And as I look for them specifically for the 125, I see that's what they're supposed to look like. 

That's a Kohler k301AS though, if it's still the original motor. That's the same as in my 1250. So there should be a chamber style muffler available. 

Without taking far too much stuff off I can't expose the one on my tractor, but it exhausts through grill. Still loud, I can hear it with my 3m worktunes on, but I have to imagine it's quieter than that. 

There's a full on shield around the muffler, that probably helps a little too. 

Really looking at it, I may do something about it this summer. On my 1000 it excited through the grill, on the 1250, the pipe doesn't even extend to the grill. I'll probably extend it out and put a 90 on it too point it to the side. 

Another thing I thought of. If you buy something that doesn't come with all the attachments you want, get a brand common in your area. I'd like a front blade for my ariens but most that is available in the area is for John deere. 

After a couple of low-end riding mower/tractors I wound up getting a deal on a John Deere (a real one, not a MTD with green paint). I used to think it was silly to pay extra for a J-D.

No longer.

It is light years better than any of the consumer grade garbage that MTD packages under 14 different brands and paint jobs. You'll pay the J-D tax for parts though.

EvanB said:

Another thing I thought of. If you buy something that doesn't come with all the attachments you want, get a brand common in your area. I'd like a front blade for my ariens but most that is available in the area is for John deere. 

This is a great point. Most of the stuff in my area is either Cub Cadet or John Deere with Wheel Horse being a distant 3rd. Deere stuff carries a premium, it seems. My friend has a 318, and although he loves it, those regularly sell for well over a grand here now. There's a Cub 147 nearby for $500 that I have my eye on. It comes with a mowing deck, which is all I really need to start. 

In reply to ddavidv :

My dad has a newer Cub Cadet that he got from Home Depot. He's had nothing but problems with the mowing deck since he got it; it keeps killing belts. It of course is a rebadged MTD. I wouldn't touch one of those.

I've got a late 90s-ish Simplicity Broadmoor 16. It's been a really solid machine, though I can't say I've really challenged it all that much. There's a local dealer for parts, but used accessories are thin on the ground. I'd like to find a plow/blade for it at some point, and I've thought about rigging up another muffler to quiet it down a bit.

I've missed a few of these since I posted this, including a Cub 127, a late model Wheel Horse Hydro, and a Case 222 that was way too cheap. But I've been doing research.

I think my #1 is finding a Cub Cadet with hydro. There are more accessories/parts for these available locally (and affordably) than anything else, including JD stuff. I'm zeroing in on a few models that I would be happy to get and keeping my eyes peeled. 

In reply to Tony Sestito :

I have a Cub Cadet 1042 I got from Tractor Supply about 14 years ago. Other than also eating a belt every year or so it's been pretty solid. My yard is all rocks and roots which doesn't help belt life either. 

I know there's lots of talk about it but I don't think MTD or AYP makes any of the Deere products. Deere makes their own entry level machines. We cut about 3 acres and PW wanted a Deere so I bought her a D170 that now has 600hrs on it. We beat on it pretty hard and it's been good so far. I don't find parts to be particularly expensive and the dealer stocks everything 

I completely understand if you just want something different or have different needs, but assuming the rest of the machine is okay can't you just buy a new 18hp Briggs for ~$700?  

Buying another used old machine is just going to be months of discovery as you learn and repair what is wrong with it. 

Obviously if the troy built is just straight worn out replacement is necessary but you've only pointed to engine problems.  

I have a 318 and a "big box store" John Deere. All the talk about how bad they are is ridiculous, I bought it in 2006 and have maintained it like it should be and it's fine. Have I had to replace a coil? Yes. The spindles? Yes. A fuel pump? Yes. Did it have the crap tuff torq transaxle that required a fluid change and a gear replaced? Yes. It's been here 18 years though. I don't use the 318 hardly at all, have a snow blower attachment for the LA and use it extensively for everything. The cub cadet I had before was a pile, the snapper I had before that was also. If you buy used it's a crap shoot, no matter the brand.

In reply to nocones :

I considered this. The fact is, the machine has other issues.

I actually got the thing for free years ago from my dad. He is the patron saint of deferred maintenance. I had to fix a bunch of stuff already to make it work. The mower engagement is wonky, it's getting rusty, the steering is so loose that I don't know it will actually turn sometimes, etc. It's just worn out. It's had a good run, but it's time for it to go.

I know it seems kinda nuts looking at stuff that's half a century old to replace it, but a lot of the older stuff is easier to service and has better parts availability than this thing. I have friends who are into the older stuff, so they know all the ins and outs.

That said, I wish HF made a replacement for the Briggs Intek that it has that's lower cost and probably more reliable. If they made a Predator for like $300, I'd kick the can down the road until the next failure. If I have to spend though (and I do), I'd rather spend on something a bit more useful around the yard. 

I had a 50+ year old IH Cub Cadet 127 Hydrostatic Drive since new. There's two thing wrong with those old garden tractors:

1) 12 hp will only cut so much grass in so much amount of time.

2) The 2 outer 12" blades of the 3 blade 42" deck don't spin fast enough to cut well.

This made the cutting speed slow and turned the mower into a gas hog.

To bad I couldn't figure anyway to add a 20 hp engine which would have made the Cub a great tractor. (Front pto pulley output and rear direct driveshaft to the Hydrostatic drive.)

I replaced it with a Poulan Pro lawn tractor made by Electrolux with a 19hp Kohler engine and the better of the two hydrostatic drives that are out there and which will mow circles around the old IH.

It's also just a mower and I would never try to do anything with it other than just cut grass.

Edit: To be fair, I am trying to mow 1.3 acres of property. You might not need to worry about how fast you can mow.

Man I've been perusing Marketplace for a replacement just today. We have a JD L120 with a 48" deck that spits belts here and there. Sometimes they go under the blades before I get it stopped and there's $30. Got it used 4 years ago from a honest to goodness farm and the deck was always kinda banged up and had some sloppy welds. I upgraded the pulley to the "fix" for tossing belts and it helped none at all. Also it smokes a lot and leaks oil all over from all over. 
 

Meanwhile I "inherited" my BIL's grandparents' Craftsman which I don't like. Put a new carb on it to get it to run and has begun stalling out more and more frequently. 
 

Anyway, I know nothing about any brand but have been happiest with the JD and would like another. They all cost over $1k here if they have a mower deck, sadly. With kids' dental work coming up I may have to get a nice pair of scissors before approaching that kind of $$

I did find some guy selling two L120s for $400 just north of Detroit, 2 hours from me. As long as the wheels haven't been stolen off of them that's a bargain, despite any needed work. Anyone else in MI want to go halfises with me?

In reply to VolvoHeretic :

I don't have a huge property, a little over a half acre, so I don't think I'll have the blade speed issues you have. I can mow it all with the walk-behind, but having something that I can hop on and mow the lawn with easily is a time saver. It takes me half the time or less to mow with the tractor. And in the spring/fall, it really comes in handy for cleaning up the yard. I also use the aerator, thatcher, and trailer a lot moving stuff around. I'm missing it right now with cleaning up all the pine cones that are all over the place. I usually toss on the thatcher which picks them all up like a big rake. My lawn/yard is a disaster from doing house construction, so not having it is less than ideal right now. 

Getting something a bit more heavy duty would also be handy as a vehicle tug for derelict project cars! 

God, this thread is making my still-not running 109 Cub Cadet laugh at me for still not having it running.

Is the K241 10HP Engine enough to tow *anything* up a hill? Can the 109s hydrostat have other Kohler engines bolted to it? I don't wanna expand this project when I've barely started, but I do worry about it a bit.

I have a well worn JD GT235 with the V twin 18HP Briggs engine that I bought new in 1996.  I really wish it had an Hobbes time meter on it, I cannot imagine how many hours are on this thing.  I have many, many acres to mow.  Well, yesterday I fired it up and it was running like crap.  Was running fine when I parked it from what I remember.  Idled OK but popping through the carb with throttle and wouldn't run the mower deck, no power up high.  Sounded weird.  Did the usual debug, thought it was ignition, found a suspect plug wire, maybe a bad magneto.  One plug had perfect color, the other was black and sooty.  Fussed and fiddled, mags looked good, fixed wire, it seemed fine.  Compression was 155/165 (!!) No change in operation.  The popping through the carb got me to thinking it might be a broken valve spring so I pulled the valve covers (it's an overhead valve engine).  Looky what I found.  Exhaust side.  Doesn't run too good with about 0.020" exhaust valve lift!   These things will run seemingly forever with good maintenance.  Inside of the engine was spotless.  That being said, I have no friggin' idea of why this thing bent.  It's aluminum, while the intake pushrod is steel.  Go figure?  Anyway, less than $50 for parts and shipping and I'm back in business.  Oh, and I bought a JD 1025R a couple of years ago to do the heavy mowing now, way quicker than the 235.

Strong suggestion.... if you like the tractor and the rest of it is still serviceable, consider a re-power.

Lawn equipment like this is usually configured for off-the-shelf engine options, and the rest of the tractor is probably all configured to accept any one of a dozen engines from Kohler, Briggs, Tecumseh, Honda, Subaru/Robin, etc.  Honestly, you might be able to find a Predator sitting on the shelf at HF that would work.  Worst case, you find an old Cub Cadet with a blown hydrostat and you can probably scavenge the Briggs out of it for next to nothing.

I have a couple wheel horses. First is a C101 thats on its 3rd engine. First death was my fault. Second engine was a Briggs v twin that I put headers on and had revving to like 5-6k.... Sounded great, didn't last long. Last is a predator 420 that's still going strong. It's a solid machine, short of my hamfistedness.

Second machine is a 416H, with the foot pedal hydro conversion. It's so much nicer! Sure, I miss the bullet proof 8 speed, but this one is holding up well. The Onan twin is much smoother than the single pot HF, and the hydro lift is great. WH machines are nice, accessories are cheaper than JD - but I'd love me some power steering.

I've been shopping for a JD 425/445/455 or maybe a 420 with a deck and loader, but man the JD tax hurts in New England.

Provided the engine isn't toast, this could be a good machine. Looks to have the forward swept axle (which I think is often paired with gear reduction steering). I have the same blower and it's a beast at 300-350lbs. Should be able to find a deck reasonably priced.

https://www.facebook.com/share/h19RTTc1bGG9ytRQ/?mibextid=kL3p88

Well, I feel like a moron today. 

After getting ghosted a bunch of times from sellers on Marketplace on new-to-me garden tractors, I started looking at what I could do to try and last-ditch save this one. Giving it another look, I started with the oil. Last I looked, it seemed like it was at normal levels, albeit with a little condensation on the stick. This time was different. 

I checked it, and there was something in there, but not just oil. And the level was DOUBLE what it should be and it had zero viscosity. It smelled most like fuel. So I took a chance and drained whatever was in there, changed the filter, added proper oil, and it sputtered. No matter what I did, fuel and air weren't mixing right, so I tossed on the old carb and it fired right up. It smoked for a minute, cleared up, and I mowed the lawn like none of this orderal happened. I feel like a dope. 

So, I guess I can hold off on getting a garden tractor for now. I am going to still keep my eyes peeled for a good deal on a heavier duty machine, and hope this thing lasts the season.