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curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/1/16 5:20 p.m.

I have a Netgear wn2000rpt wifi extender. I had asked about this last year and had decided to get a better wifi extender with an external antenna, but I failed. So I thought I'd ask

Long story short: Up here at the lake I get little dribbles of wifi from the lodge. My wifi extender doesn't get enough signal to reliably connect. The plan was to get one with an external antenna, hack the antenna and put it in a parabolic/directional thing like a cantenna or lampshade.

Before I drop coin on another extender (I'm cheap) I wondered if I could hack this one, find the antenna array inside, and bypass it putting a coax connector in its place. Then I could make my antenna external to see if that works before spending money.

Anyone done something like this?

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
8/1/16 5:49 p.m.

That should work. I bought a couple of yagi's on amazon and have them on linksys routers.

JoeTR6
JoeTR6 HalfDork
8/1/16 7:57 p.m.

Do a Google search for "cantenna". If your WiFi router has a threaded connector for an antenna, you can probably make and adapt a highly directional antenna that will work.

pjbgravely
pjbgravely Reader
8/1/16 9:26 p.m.

If you have line of sight a pringles can antenna should work.

Huckleberry
Huckleberry MegaDork
8/1/16 9:33 p.m.

Aim this at the lodge. If it helps (because it's cheap in invested time to test with) - then go full cantenna using an online calculator for the diameter/length of the tube. Steal a dipole antenna from an old card or router.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/YOBfxbpxosA

Enyar
Enyar Dork
8/1/16 9:40 p.m.

How do you connect to the wifi at the lodge? Do you need a login? Splash page?

I'm trying to do something similar but I got a feeling whatever you guys are doing is better than what I'm doing.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/2/16 10:24 a.m.

No splash page. Just simple WEP login.

No line of sight. Blocked by a hill and trees.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/2/16 10:30 a.m.
JoeTR6 wrote: Do a Google search for "cantenna". If your WiFi router has a threaded connector for an antenna, you can probably make and adapt a highly directional antenna that will work.

I've read up on the cantenna a lot. It might be too directional for me. The source router is about 300 yards away (its a Nano... not in size, in brand... meant to broadcast pretty far). My problem is physical obstruction, not necessarily distance. I'm thinking a parabolic; somewhere between a satellite dish and a gooseneck lamp shade maybe, but I have to research how to find the right amount of condensing I need to do. I think if I use a cantenna, I will have either great reception or zero depending on if a leaf is in the way or not. If I go too wide with the parabola, I might not be capturing enough signal.

My extender does not have a threaded connector or external antenna. Internal antenna only. It looks like this:

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/2/16 10:39 a.m.
Huckleberry wrote: Aim this at the lodge.

Yeah, but where do I put it? I don't have an antenna.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo UltimaDork
8/2/16 11:45 a.m.

You need a pair of cheap routers with antenna jacks (preferably with 1 watt radios, note that with a high gain antenna this is sorta illegal but nobody is going to care in a remote area) and a pair of cheap Yagi antennas, aim antennas, set up the remote AP to bridge mode, up transmit power until it works right, done. You want the antennas either outside (put the router in a box if needed) or at a window.

Also, don't run WEP, might as well run nothing at all. Use WPA2 with a fairly long password.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/2/16 12:00 p.m.
BrokenYugo wrote: You need a pair of cheap routers with antenna jacks (preferably with 1 watt radios, note that with a high gain antenna this is sorta illegal but nobody is going to care in a remote area) and a pair of cheap Yagi antennas, aim antennas, set up the remote AP to bridge mode, up transmit power until it works right, done. You want the antennas either outside (put the router in a box if needed) or at a window. Also, don't run WEP, might as well run nothing at all. Use WPA2 with a fairly long password.

Not my router. I don't have access to set up any security. I'm just trying to pull in a signal that the lodge owner was nice enough to provide. Speed test shows about 5mb down, 2mb up, so its just enough to post here and watch netflix with a lot of interruptions

Security up here is the least of my worries. Its used by about 20 of my immediate family and close friends, most of whom are 80 years old and probably just use it to stream nudie flix and check their prescriptions at WalMart.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/2/16 12:10 p.m.
BrokenYugo wrote: You need a pair of cheap routers with antenna jacks (preferably with 1 watt radios,

Can you expand on this? I assume the 1w is transmit power? If so, I'm only trying to supply four campsites. The rest of the campground has adequate direct access to the radio at the lodge. Why the two routers? Wouldn't that just split the gain I generate with a directional antenna?

My problem isn't rebroadcasting, its pulling signal in. The few moments a day that I get enough signal from the lodge to my extender, it supplies us all with room to spare.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo UltimaDork
8/2/16 12:56 p.m.

Ah, I understand now, I was describing how to set up a long distance link you have control of at both ends. In your case (the ripping off wifi sort of case) you need a single router and bigass directional antenna (somehting liek a yagi should bleed off enough omnidirectionally for the users). A few years ago the router to buy for this on a budget if you didn't need a ton of throughput (like 50 Mbps tops running as a repeater) was the TP LINK WR741ND, though I'm not sure it will let you run the proper config with the stock firmware (I flashed mine with OpenWRT), or if something better is availble now.

The max legal power (1 Watt) will make sure the distant router hears you loud and clear, listening to it is strictly a matter of how good your antenna is though. EDIT: I should probably expand that a 1 watt router is perfectly legal, it's just when you put much of an antenna on one the "effective radiated power" exceeds the limit.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/2/16 3:40 p.m.
BrokenYugo wrote: The max legal power (1 Watt) will make sure the distant router hears you loud and clear, listening to it is strictly a matter of how good your antenna is though. EDIT: I should probably expand that a 1 watt router is perfectly legal, it's just when you put much of an antenna on one the "effective radiated power" exceeds the limit.

Ah that makes sense. I was stupidly forgetting that I have to send data back. I was only thinking about RX like a TV signal booster.

I'm thinking that I might not have to go too much farther than I am now. If I can just boost signal I'm in the pink.

Forgive my dumbness... the TPLINK router - is it the firmware change that lets it be a repeater?

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/2/16 3:45 p.m.
curtis73 wrote: Forgive my dumbness... the TPLINK router - is it the firmware change that lets it be a repeater?

Depends on the hardware revision, OpenWRT supports most:

https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/tl-wr741nd

Yes you should modify the antennas on both sides, it's definitely doable...with big TV dishes acting as backfire antennas, you can even extend a wifi link until the curvature of the earth gets in the way.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/2/16 4:56 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote:
curtis73 wrote: Forgive my dumbness... the TPLINK router - is it the firmware change that lets it be a repeater?
Depends on the hardware revision, OpenWRT supports most: https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/tl-wr741nd Yes you should modify the antennas on both sides, it's definitely doable...with big TV dishes acting as backfire antennas, you can even extend a wifi link until the curvature of the earth gets in the way.

Is it safe to assume that one antenna is the tx/rx for the device connection and the other is tx/rx to the source router? Or is one antenna for both tx's and the other for both rx's?

I'm just thinking I don't need to boost the secondary side, I just need help talking with the router at the lodge. Downstream from the repeater to our devices is A-OK. Its upstream to the web side that is the issue.

I ask that because if it is the first scenario (where one antenna handles tx/rx to the upstream) then I only need one dish.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/2/16 6:09 p.m.

And I'm going to ask this here too because I'm berkeleying so pissed off with this crap right now...

First, a description. For the sake of this conversation, the Lodge's wifi SSID is "Lodge". My extender box is "Lodge_ext". We can all get "lodge" if we walk to the top of the hill but none of us get it at our campers. So we all connect to "lodge_ext". I always assumed that I had connection problems because "lodge_ext" wasn't getting enough gain from "lodge." But the rest of my family is having almost zero issues using the repeater box. When I try to connect with my phone it says "failed to obtain IP address" and/or "AP not in use." When I try to connect the PC (it has been here with multiple OS including everything from XP to Win10) it says "secured, no internet" and has the little yellow triangle. Meanwhile my nephews are watching movies and chatting with friends on "lodge_ext".

I would say its because they are Mac/iphone users, but the connection to the "ext" isn't the issue. We're all 20 feet away from it. If we're both connected with full strength to the "ext", how are they getting web while I keep getting nothing? There are usually only a few moments of the day when I can get internet through the "ext." I know it DOES work, just only about 10% of the time it works for them.

My nephew and I were just standing beside each other outside my camper. He downloaded a youtube video while connected to "ext". I tried to connect and got "failed to obtain IP" and "AP not in use." In order to write this message I had to hike to the top of the hill so I could get "lodge" connection.

Is there some setting that is messed up for me? Maybe I can solve this issue by just changing some settings instead of making tinfoil antennas and buying another repeater.

pjbgravely
pjbgravely Reader
8/2/16 7:17 p.m.

If some devices connect and yours does not it could be that the repeater is having DHCP problems. Try power cycling the repeater to see if that helps. If not then your device could be at fault. Try disabling security on the repeater to see if that helps. If not maybe your device has a problem with the DHCP hand shake. You can try connecting with a static IP.

Also is the repeater on a different channel than the source? It should be as far as you can get it, ie if it is 1 then your repeater should be at 11.

WOW Really Paul?
WOW Really Paul? MegaDork
8/2/16 7:36 p.m.

In other news, if you still have issues later down the road, might be worth your while to look into wiMax setups.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
8/2/16 7:42 p.m.

Yeah, you don't have a signal strength problem. You have a configuration problem. Are you sure you have the right password? Are you configured correct? Does someone near you have a similar device? Try "forget"-ing everything and start over. Can you see the _ext router?

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/2/16 8:58 p.m.
pjbgravely wrote: If some devices connect and yours does not it could be that the repeater is having DHCP problems. Try power cycling the repeater to see if that helps. If not then your device could be at fault. Try disabling security on the repeater to see if that helps. If not maybe your device has a problem with the DHCP hand shake. You can try connecting with a static IP.

The repeater gets cycled frequently; probably once every few days. It never fixes the problem but its one of my standard rotation of attempts to solve issues.

I will try disabling security and see if that helps.

I spent about an hour tonight looking for a way to assign an IP in Win10 tonight and couldn't figure it out. I remember that screen well: radio buttons with "automatic" or "use this address." Can't find it in Win10. Ideas?

Also is the repeater on a different channel than the source? It should be as far as you can get it, ie if it is 1 then your repeater should be at 11.

No, and frustratingly it can't be changed. When used as a repeater, the channel option is greyed out. A googley search turned up the answer from Netgear's own support site: When used as a repeater, the broadcast channel must be the same as the router channel. I happen to know that is BS, but regardless, the channel is not able to be changed... at least not with this firmware.

Still, I would think that if conflicting channels were the issue, the problem would be similar across multiple devices, right?

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/2/16 9:10 p.m.
Dr. Hess wrote: Yeah, you don't have a signal strength problem. You have a configuration problem. Are you sure you have the right password? Are you configured correct? Does someone near you have a similar device? Try "forget"-ing everything and start over. Can you see the _ext router?

Forgetting doesn't change anything. I can see the _ext router. Full 100% signal. It connects brilliantly to the _ext every time, but my PC says "no internet" and has the little yellow triangle in the taskbar and my android phone says "failed to obtain IP" and "AP not in use." Strangely, I'm currently using my Win10 PC connected to _ext to post this message. I think Mercury is aligned with Jupiter or something.

Positive I have the correct password. Every time I "forget" the connection I have to re-enter it. If I don't get it right it just pops up the password screen again. (its also a ridiculously easy password. It might as well just be "password")

List of devices that use this _ext repeater:
- Me: Android phone and PC Win10
- Nephew 1: iphone and PC Win10
- Nephew 2: iphone and ipod
- Sister and brother in law: 2 iphones and 1 Macbook
- Mother: ipad
- Father: Android phone (but I'm not sure he's connected)

The only other Android is my dad's and he has no idea if it connects or not. The only other PC is my nephew and (since he forgot his charger) it hasn't connected since the battery died two weeks ago. I need to borrow dad's Android and see if we connect (or fail to connect) at the same times.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/2/16 9:16 p.m.

BTW... I really appreciate all your help, folks. I feel like I'm spending a crazy amount of my measly 7-week vacation trying to connect to the internet so I can solve the problem of not being able to connect to the internet. Last year at this time I was deciding to just say screw it and buy a better repeater.

This is how hard-core GRM I am. I refuse to throw money at something when I can instead learn how it works and hack it. (and spending nearly a year doing it)

asoduk
asoduk HalfDork
8/2/16 9:18 p.m.

you're on the right track here...

i'll help you with the windows 10 part... right click the start button, go to control panel. it should be the old windows 7 stuff from there.

pjbgravely
pjbgravely Reader
8/2/16 9:54 p.m.
curtis73 wrote: I spent about an hour tonight looking for a way to assign an IP in Win10 tonight and couldn't figure it out. I remember that screen well: radio buttons with "automatic" or "use this address." Can't find it in Win10. Ideas?

Sorry I don't use windows at home. If it is a consolation on Linux, a static IP is getting harder to do, I usually need to edit config files. It might be a registry change in Microsoft windows.

No, and frustratingly it can't be changed. When used as a repeater, the channel option is greyed out. A googley search turned up the answer from Netgear's own support site: When used as a repeater, the broadcast channel must be the same as the router channel. I happen to know that is BS, but regardless, the channel is not able to be changed... at least not with this firmware. Still, I would think that if conflicting channels were the issue, the problem would be similar across multiple devices, right?

Your right. Unless your device is catching the other signal you should be good as is. Can you hook to the repeater using an Ethernet cable?

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