Any General Auto Repair owners?

also the recommendations should be made before they drop it off what you what you would already exited schedule at the last service they should be called in contacted with the quotes before they bring it in. If they've gone and gotten it done somewhere else ask where we could have taken care of that for you and if they're going to get it done somewhere else and they know that you are able to do it you have a service rating issue because they don't trust you. That goes to what I said before about taking a picture of the pads as they get close to 2/32 seconds. Your shop is fixable but the front of the house needs a heavy revamp. 

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Your ideal world is not so easy in the independent world.  Brakes are a thing that could work in your example, but the ball joint wasn't loose last time, the check engine light needs me to bring in six coils, four O2 sensors, spark plugs, maf, cts, throttle body, and new intake valves.  That shake on acceleration needs both cv shafts and a new transmission on the shelf.

I have two very good wholesalers nearby, and they both have lots of stock and fast, free delivery.  It is exceedingly rare that I can't get what I need in a timely fashion, although I keep some Volvo stuff on the shelf.

So, my advice is to be within five minutes of a good warehouse...but that doesn't work for everyone, either.

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Parts pre ordering would have zero effect on car count or profits, given that the biggest issue is, and always has been (at least locally), getting feet across the threshold.  We are always advertising, sending out personalized fliers, customer referral benefits, callbacks after service, etc.  Not just sitting back and wondering "hey what happened?"

My 9:30 was a no show, btw.

This is why some people in this thread are suggesting that subbing work from other shops is a good deal.  That is guaranteed work.  We get subbed out alignments and A/C work from local auto body shops (we're the only people in a decent radius with an R1234yf machine) but last winter was extremely mild, mild winter means no collisions to repair...  So even that has its ups and downs.

In reply to John Welsh (Moderate Supporter) :

I am not surprised about the difficulties of finding good mechanic, because this issue is shared amongst all of trade/skilled labor. Living in the rust belt where industry was king and watching it go overseas peoples attitude and parents have been harping college for years.  It may change, because working in Higher education I can tell you that the Baby Boomers are bleeding colleges dry and when the cliff happens in 2025 there is going to be trouble. Some colleges have already started to consolidate, Merge and even close there doors for good. I am just prepping for a new career knowing of the changes, and this is a stepping stone for me.

I have meetings with other franchise but so far I have only talked to my friend. He has mentioned everything that I summarized above, the only part not mentioned what he does marketing and recruitment wise. Spends time on it, because this is second career (although he is a good mechanic). I am just doing my due diligence and connecting with others.

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

The only way I see pre-visit parts procurement working is having a fleet account customer with multiple versions of the same vehicle. Or you will have to further sliver yourself into one or two specific brands. If you don't do that, your overall inventory will be 3 million dollars before you have finished your first year. That's if you don't get stuck with restock fees.

I do agree with the advisor being the problem. It doesn't hurt to ask, if they turn it down that day, to ask, "when can we get you back in here to get that repaired?". The problem is the advisor needs to be tech minded with knowing that the pads might last to the next LOF, but no "guarantee". Lots of people don't know how to care for a car anymore because they "don't break" like they did just 20 yrs ago. Just because I never put brake pads on my Jetta in 90K miles doesn't mean "Ms Daisy" is going to get the same mileage out of them. Ideally your RO "program", whether paper or computer based, should be indexed to the last RO written with a FULL explanation of what happened, not just a "declined repair" line. It should be written verbatim as "Customer declined estimated repair, "Have to talk it over with spouse." or whatever else they say. You then will have an angle for the followup call to see if they are now willing to repair it after a few days. If they fixed it themselves or somewhere else, you still have an angle on how to gain them as a "full time" customer, by asking was the price too much, length of repair/downtime, didn't speak about your standard warranty on all repairs, etc....

Again, sorry for the rant, but this is the E36 M3 I witnessed and experienced first hand when wrenching. I lost out on a LOT of hours because the advisors were somewhere lower than slug slime and couldn't get a man dying in the desert to spend a buck for a bottle of water. Yet the other advisor could sell the Eskimo shaved ice in winter. I also wasted LOTS of my time explaining HOW the customers vehicle was estimated, I'm talking the 50/50, half the time you can save them; the other half you can't, Dodge BR body hubs when replacing axle joints at $300 each, because the advisor was a complete wasted sack of E36 M3 in a nice shirt and khakis.....

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

Stuff that requires diag that isn't scheduled obviously can't be pre-ordered. But to a degree you make your own luck and efficiency. it also provides a convenience to the customer and shows a level of expertise and is a differentiator from other shops. And they're paying for service not the just the repair, that service comes in the form of convenience, trust and expertise. Trust is formed not just in honesty but in communication. and it's why having a non-car person as a service writer is a better option as they're not going to explain things in a technical term but explain things in what works for the customer and from a convenience and benefit factor what the advantages are to getting it done now. 

Regarding staying busy in car count, no shops are but most shops also don't have a $400 average RO. That's fed by that pre-drop off communication reviewing previous ro's and scheduling the way a doctor's office does. I can fill a shop entirely off of just Google at no cost and working with local nonprofits. I worked with a local shop who had a customer who was murdered by an estranged ex-husband. They started working with a local shelter and home for victims of domestic violence and abuse. Giving financial support to them offering complimentary vehicle care to some people that were living at facility and even putting on some car clinics in conjunction with them. They did it in memory of one of their customers not as a marketing exercise. Within four years they were opening a second location. The unknown benefit to them was most victims of abuse who did they previously have do their repair and maintenance on their vehicle? they also don't want to be victimized and don't have an inherent trust of shops if they don't have a pre-existing shop that they work with and have built trust with over the years. and then there's a positive community exposure people that weren't affiliated with House of Ruth suddenly started wanting to come to them because they look out for customers regardless of gender they're going to treat you right not treat you like a moron who doesn't know anything if you're a woman. Their profits from the original location went up over 60% in a 7-month period, and they were turning $28,000 a month per bay before that. 

The bottom line is if you're not turning $30,000 per day per month, and not a tech, a bay. You're not doing nearly as well as you should be you're just getting by making ends meet. And you don't have the resources to attract top talent. That works as a hobby, but you'll die with a wrench in your hand as you're not putting away for retirement and there's not enough value in your business other than the land, walls, lifts and the tools with regards to selling it. 

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

30k/day/bay???? Maybe if you have the crown prince of some middle eastern country paying the bills. That would be 600k/month/bay, that is just unrealistic. 3k/day/bay is a manageable number. I haven't seen some shops turn that in 3 months.... A million a year would easily put 100k in the owners pocket....

In reply to Ranger50 :

Pretty sure that is a typo and should be read as "$30,000 per bay per month" which is only $1500 per bay per day if you are not working weekends.

In reply to Ranger50 :

30k/bay a month, definitely not a day. Voice to text screwed that up.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Ranger50 :

30k/bay a month, definitely not a day. Voice to text screwed that up.

How many techs is that?

We're over that level per tech, even back when we had three techs.  Fortunately they found other places to be before the big slowdown happened.  Or, looked at another way, fortunately I was the one who "stayed on the island", because:

Pete's too berking old for flat rate.

Work's too berking slow nowadays for flat rate to pay more than literally anything (at my last job I had a couple $200 paychecks because there was NO business right when the switch happened... which is why it's not my current job)

I know I could technically be making a E36 M3load more money somewhere else... WHEN times are good.  I value stability over that.  I have no control over who walks in.  If I wanted to have that kind of risk, I'd freelance again instead of being an employee.

it's per a bay, independent of techs. flat rate is definitely a problem and old school thinking. If there's no control over what's coming in, that's a front of the house issue and they're likely undercharging for diagnosis. You should never diagnosis a vehicle for someone's cousin to do the job. 

I love small business discussions. It's my passion. But I won't get deep into this one because I've never run an auto shop, and there is plenty of good advice. 
 

There are, however, a few things common to other businesses...

First note, one of the most experienced voices in this thread (Capt) is no longer in the auto industry. As a potential owner, that's an important note.  In spite of vast knowledge,  I'm hearing "Nursing is better than being a tech".  That's a warning sign for an owner. Techs are REALLY hard to keep. 
 

Second, be careful of the love affair with the fantasy of the auto business. There are many businesses that look good from the outside. To an auto enthusiast, auto repair is glitzy. But behind the scenes there is an awful lot of pure grunt work and toil in making a business like this successful. My weakness was a coffee shop. Total glitz on the outside. The reality for me is it was the most fun I ever had loosing a buttload of money.  In 2 years I never drew a paycheck at all, and eventually closed shop with $40,000 in debt. But I had a lot of fun doing it.
 

Flat rate... interesting discussion. I work in an industry (construction) where flat rate is the gold standard, and works exceptionally well for the techs. I'd NEVER work any other way. I know basic laborers who clear $1000 per week every week because of it. It's a reward for getting good at what you do.  But it sounds like there are some big caveats for that in auto. 
 

I'm concerned with the businesses you are describing. You said they are all closed. In my book, that means you are NOT buying a business. You are buying an old building with a bunch of used tools in it. Without the customer base or the business systems in place, you have a really long haul in front of you which will be slow and expensive.
 

Subcontracting:  Again, my industry does this really well. Sounds like it works in auto too. It's a MUCH better business model than trying to keep things in-house.  The best model to me seems to BE the subcontractor. When all your sales are behind the scenes to other businesses, you become the specialist, and their revenue is dependent on you. When you sell to the public, you are an expense and an annoyance to your customers. Always a fight. When you sell to a business, you become an important part of how THEY make a living- they are excited about paying you (because they get to add their markup). My concrete finishing crew is a 6 man crew that generates over $20,000 in revenue per day. Every day.  They are exceptionally good at what they do, and we (and other contractors) keep them working as much as they want. The owner of their company makes plenty, and he doesn't have to sell at all, and never has whiney customers. 
 

Just some general thoughts. I'll go back to being a lurker in this thread, but I wish you the best of luck!!

Another caveat...

In this thread, I'm hearing several techs saying "Here's why I hate my job", or perhaps, "Here's a few things management could have done to make it better". 
 

I don't hear any techs saying, "Man, I love my job". 
 

That's a red flag. 

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

Sadly one of the things that keeps techs in the game is the $10k investment in a tool box and another $10-20k in tools themselves. For better or worse it tends to keep them in the game. 

You're spot on regarding closed businesses and what you outline regarding small businesses in general. I think breweries may be even more poorly managed from a business perspective then automotive repair shops. I'm seriously considering starting a draft (no pun intended) of a book on the brewing industry. So many make a great product, yet lose money and there's no reason for that to be the case. 

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

I hear you, but still think that's sad (and unnecessary). 
 

I had over $200K invested in tools. But that's not what kept me I construction. I stayed in construction because I got really good at it, and was able to be rewarded for my skills and talents. 
 

I like the actual work, and am paid fairly for it.  You won't earn my loyalty with fancy coffees, AC, or pinup girls.  I get fulfillment from my work (even though there are a lot of things that suck about it)

I know why I stayed. 
 

Not sure how to translate that to auto techs. 

I almost bought a successful garage back in 08. They were doing about 1.2m in revenue. Wife worked the front desk, husband was the service advisor and they had a parts guy and two technicians in 4 bays. I thought it was a great business, but they got spooked in the financiapocalypse and canceled the deal.

Here is why their shop did well:

-Location was right outside a high-end community. 

-Business model was same as dealership, just at lower prices. They had the correct diagnostic equipment and kept lots of parts on hand. At the time they were servicing only one make-Mercedes Benz.

-Massive amounts of trust with a well-developed and well heeled customer base. If the car is worth 20k people are more inclined to spend $400 on brakes and buy on value/trust instead of price. Additionally, if the customer is well-heeled this is an easier decision. Same ownership for 20 years and the owners were just plain good people.

-Good quality of life for technicians. When summer came the shop was closed on Fridays. Yearly training paid for by the shop, and the technicians could use the shop parts account for side jobs. It was still hard to find good techs-at one point they sponsored a tech from Germany.

The shop is still there and doing well. The old owners eventually retired and I think they now lease the building to the new owner. What I look for in a business are multiple tail-winds that reinforce each other. In this case it was a mix of great location, solid business model, and strong and consistent ownership.

Wonder what happened to OP?

SvREX is on point.

18 years ago I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life but cars seemed cool. I worked in an auto shop as a grease monkey and listened to the complaints. 
 

All the guys who enjoyed wrenching did it on the side. We had a guy who is higher up at the state. Works in IT. Wrenches on nights and weekends. 
 

Another guy who was too smart for ordinary wrenching started his own business fixing luxury cars, sometimes to flip, sometimes for rich customers. 
 

The owner was a chronic businessman. He started a bike shop, vacuum shop, retail store, all sorts of things - but he kept it all on the same property as the shop. 
 

I definitely left with the feeling that successful owners and happy mechanics made their money elsewhere.

The shop I use here in town is owned by a younger guy. He's grown to buy/co-own a few other shops in town. His secret? Scheduling software. He knows who's working when across every location, which bays are open where. You never have to wait. Need an oil change? Bring it over. Need a headgasket? We can start tomorrow. Need tires? Head to this shop, we'll take you now.
 

He's the service writer across 3-4 businesses with like 30 employees. Its easier to find people who can work that software than can do auto tech stuff, but he loses a tech, he'll just shuffle work around to others. Nobody is ever overworked, but nobody is underworked either. It helps that he runs a race shop too and that attracts a lot of younger techs.

In reply to pheller :

It's not University Auto Repair by chance is it? 

Aaron from 316, FTB, Randys, Triple R driveline.

In reply to pheller :

I'm familiar with Randy's 

Assuming canoeage brought this back.  But some more perspective.  We now have two full time techs, one part time, and the owner comes out of his office in the afternoon to assist if need be. I have migrated to lead tech role, after a couple decades of being low man on totem pole because small shops are like that.

We have a very good service manager now. Actually worked with him for a year or so in my early days, this is a small field and everybody eventually know everybody. Have some friction, but there is always friction, the key is to work an understanding and compromise.

We average numbers a lot higher than posted uptrend.  We have weekly meetings and a 2:30 quick huddle meeting to sort the afternoon.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Definitely good to hear. What change made the biggest positive difference and why?

I am still working on it, there have been some challenges with purchasing a existing shop. The business I have seen so far deal under the table, have invested nothing into the business, poor working conditions, and slap a price that is half the appraisal.  What surprises me is that they have techs  1 or 2 of them that have been there a long time and are loyal.

I agree with Pete. when I went to a shop that was very efficient and well run, they had a excellent service manager that was excellent customer service skills and was well known in the community for treating techs fair. He did a excellent job with scheduling and had everything out of the lot by Friday afternoon. Techs never worked after hours or on weekends. It was impressive and a good comparison to the other places that I saw operate. Over the 5 years that I have visited the shop there has been some turn over with techs, but some of them have returned. During Covid some of the shops struggled with retaining employees, some of the techs decided to stay home and do side work instead, but hopefully 2022 trends differently.

In reply to trigun7469 :

I know this got bumped by a canoe. Any updates?