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daeman
daeman Dork
3/10/21 4:06 p.m.

I've been trying to figure out my employment future for a while now and it seems things are organically evolving to push me down the path of property repair/maintenance.

I've recently taken on a part time role doing groundskeeping and maintenance for a local motel. This is probably only short term, around 6 months just to help get the place back up to a reasonable standard while I continue on with my renovations at home. 

A few conversations over the last year or so have touched on my renovations, work shop build, fencing etc and sooner or later, the question pops up "would you be interested in doing" whatever it is that person is needing done. Initially I was batting these questions or requests away... But increasingly I'm starting to think there's a reasonable living could be made from it.

I'm on good terms with one of the local real estate agents and last time we bumped into each other I sounded out the market in terms of competition, potential for work etc for their rental portfolio... He was pretty interested, said there was not a great deal of competition, and said he definitely wanted to know if I decide to go that direction because he'd be happy to use me. I am also on good terms with the other local agent, so there's a good rapport there that could potentially have an in there.

I've spoken to a few locals who have been long term residents of the area, they're of the opinion that anyone who's good and honest always has more work than they need/can handle. The manager of the local hardware wold be willing to spruik/support me based on a few chats we've had.

I also made contact with a guy I've know for years who's been in the game for 30+ years who's in a totally different area (ie, not my direct competition) to see if he'd be willing to give me a bit of advice. He pretty much overloaded me with advice and information and said he's more than happy for me to pick his brains any time, especially if I found myself stuck on a particular job. He already does the same for his son and another friend of his and is always very generous with his time and information. So I've potentially got a solid mentor/support person on side.

I've also made a contact with the local master builders association branch (he does insurance assessment as well and I met him through the new job) he's a former carpenter and instructor (taught apprentice's the theory side of construction for about 15 years) and he knows the ins and outs of gaining a builder's license and would be willing to help me with the process of getting certified if I were to get more serious than just maintenance and repair.

So I guess we've come to "the point" of this thread. Has or is anyone here been down this path before? How's it worked out for you? Has it grown or evolved into something more? Any trap or pitfalls to about? Any sound or indispensable advice you can offer? Am I crazy?

I've got plenty to consider and think about, and a few jobs in the pipeline to test the waters a bit. If I were to pursue this with any seriousness, I'll need to go through the process of setting up a business, which again, any advice is well received.

 

Lastly, to me, this has the potential to evolve in a direction that would help me get to something I'm very much into.... Old houses and their preservation or restoration. So I don't see this as a fast track or a stop gap, but as a way of gaining experience, confidence and knowledge as well as building a good reputation within the community and wider areas.

Thanks for reading if you got this far haha.

Tl:dr.... Am I crazy for considering handyman/maintenance as a business and what advice have you got for me.

 

 

 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
3/10/21 4:24 p.m.

Do good work at a price that's acceptable to you and your customer and word will spread. 

Not the same job, but my father was in business for himself in construction  (all aspects,  really) He never advertised, once. Soild craftsmanship and word of mouth. 

As long as it gives you the income you need, and its sustainable, why not? Theres always things that need fixing. 

preach (fs)
preach (fs) GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
3/10/21 4:34 p.m.

I did this for years, but I had an "in". My Dad owned a property management company. 

We managed about 350ish units, not properties, just units. Old mills, old houses, '80s apartment buildings, all of it.

Initially, I was in college and I did the landscaping. "Hoes and Ditches Landscape" was what I billed as. Later it had a more professional name. It did well and I never wanted to crossover to construction.

I've ripped out apts to their studs and drywalled, I've refinished hardwood and pine floors (my future welding bench is a return air grate to an old heater system when we did the floors), roofed, I've tiled, etc. I made good money and would have done better if it was my own company.

Know  about lead pre '79 if you deal with older houses.

RevRico
RevRico GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
3/10/21 4:35 p.m.

Don't fall into the property preservation trap like I did. Sounds great on paper, but the foreclosure ban put me out of business.

Property preservation is getting bank or realtor owned homes up to snuff to sell. This translates to a E36 M3 load of money out, a E36 M3 load of pictures of any and all work, and 60-90 day waits for the money to come back. 

I understand where you're coming from though, my favorite job was when I was a hotel maintenance man. Liked it even better than apartments because people didn't usually stay long enough to really trash the places.

There are a buttload of maintenance guys for hire here locally. Most of them I wouldn't trust to dig a hole. If you can do quality work, you'll never be out of work, but there's a pretty big gap, in my experience, between what people think a job should cost to do right and what they're willing to pay to do a job properly. 

 

Going into business yourself though is fairly easy. Paid my lawyer $750 and got an LLC. Cheaper to do online, but I wanted to pick his brain a bit.  Finding business insurance was tricky, learning excel or accounting software and keeping track of everything can be a full time job in itself. Set hard limits for yourself, and be realistic and honest with what you can and can't do.

daeman
daeman Dork
3/10/21 4:59 p.m.

In reply to Appleseed :

Yeah, word of mouth is definitely a big thing in these parts... "The bush telegraph" is alive and well. As it is I'm already getting know as the guy with the shed or the guy who's fixing the old place lol. It's how a few of these enquires have started popping up.

And yes, agreed, people always have to live somewhere and things always need repair. That was something the maintenance guy I speak to also made a point of.

 

daeman
daeman Dork
3/10/21 5:03 p.m.

In reply to preach (fs) :

Thanks mate, appreciate the insight! Also... Hoes and ditches!! Hahaha, brilliant! But yeah, can see why you'd move away from it.

I'm in the midst of restoring/renovating an early 1900s property, lead and asbestos are both very much on my radar. I may also look towards getting an asbestos abatement certificate in future for that reason.

mikeatrpi
mikeatrpi HalfDork
3/10/21 5:12 p.m.

There's a dude on youtube called the handyman with advice on pursuing a career here.  He's got some rules... Look the part (show up with a tool bag or belt even for simple stuff like flipping breakers), clean up after yourself, don't use the customers loo ... It's both sensible and entertaining

daeman
daeman Dork
3/10/21 5:13 p.m.

In reply to RevRico :

Perhaps preservation wasn't the right choice of words, as it seems to have a different meaning in the states. I meant it as maintenance or upkeep of old/historic buildings. There's a very limited pool of people here who are willing or able to work with traditional methods and materials when it comes to heritage restoration or upkeep. 

So far I'm enjoying the motel gig, it's varied and pretty flexible in terms of how I rack up my hours. This one's a challenge though, I'd say the last several maintenance guys had absolutely zero idea or care factor... But it's keeping me in work so I'm fine with that.

That's the general consensus I'm getting sounding out the market here... There's a few guys out there claiming to be handymen/maintenance guys, but only really one who anyone trusts or considers any good. And yeah, trying to get people to pay what a jobs worth can be a real pita at times, I say that as a reformed mechanic lol.

Appreciate the heads up. My partner is well versed in office admin so will do most of that side of things for me. Will probably start out with quickbooks as it seems to tick a lot of boxes and is in fairly wide use here so people are familiar with it.

And totally agree... No point getting in over your head on a job and ballsing it up, it'll hurt your reputation far more than politely declining it in the first place

daeman
daeman Dork
3/10/21 5:18 p.m.

In reply to mikeatrpi :

I think I've seen some of his stuff. Is he the guy who has one on making 100k a year or similar? He seems to have his E36 M3 well sorted

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UltraDork
3/10/21 5:23 p.m.

I use a person last 13 years to to manage /handyman properties for me. He started as 1 man with me and now has 6 other employees 

he is doing very well for himself as I saw him grow his business in front of my eyes 

daeman
daeman Dork
3/10/21 5:31 p.m.

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

That's some great anecdotal evidence that done right it could become quite lucrative, thank you.

Whilst I'm not sure if want it to grow into something that large, it's good to know that it does have quite a solid growth potential if I did want to go after it to that extent

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/10/21 5:39 p.m.
Appleseed said:

Do good work at a price that's acceptable to you and your customer and word will spread. 

Not the same job, but my father was in business for himself in construction  (all aspects,  really) He never advertised, once. Soild craftsmanship and word of mouth. 

As long as it gives you the income you need, and its sustainable, why not? Theres always things that need fixing. 

More or less the same advice I was gonna give actually.

 

Anyone who does construction honestly and fairly is already in the upper echleon. It's sad, but it's true

daeman
daeman Dork
3/10/21 5:43 p.m.

Also, as a bit of a spitball type afterthought...we both want to travel more now we're not stuck in the urban rat race.

It has potential as a mobile business.... During A conversation with my nan a while back she suggested it would travel pretty well if set up right, she's been traveling throughout rural and outback australia for the last 20-30 years and there's always a distinct lack of skilled people in remote and rural areas. She's crossed paths with a few people who are essentially roving tradesmen or handymen who by all accounts can pick up work wherever they want to stop for a while, people are often clamouring for their services. It's made even easier these days with social media, because it allows you to let people know in advance you'll be in their area and they're able to see past reviews and feedback etc pretty easily

And again, it's a fairly transferable business compared to something bricks and mortar from what I can see. If say 5 or 10 years down the track we wanted to move to a new location, whilst I'd lose my clients, I'd still have the basics of an established business allowing us to reestablish a little easier than some other situations would allow.

Sorry if I'm getting a bit wall of text at times, but I want to get my thoughts out there and probably have this act as a bit of a sounding board. It's really easy to build things up and get excited about them in my own mind, but sometimes getting the thoughts out there and having different perspectives or opinions brought up can help with keeping things realistic or grounded.

RevRico
RevRico GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
3/10/21 5:43 p.m.

In reply to daeman :

To that end, I know a great roofer. My dad grew up with him, and they gave each other a lot of business through the years. The past 20 years, Terry hasn't done a single residential roof. His sole job these days is doing roofs on old and historic churches. 

There's travel involved, but the money involved certainly makes up for that. Just him, his 30 something son, and 1-2 helpers. 

I'm not saying start a roofing business, but if you want to work more on the historic side of things, find a niche you're good at, and get your name into the circles of people in the historical societies. The stranger the niche, the better. Terrazzo flooring, marble refinishing, old fashioned wood working, stuff that the only people still doing aren't buying green bananas as the saying goes.

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UltraDork
3/10/21 5:45 p.m.
daeman said:

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

That's some great anecdotal evidence that done right it could become quite lucrative, thank you.

Whilst I'm not sure if want it to grow into something that large, it's good to know that it does have quite a solid growth potential if I did want to go after it to that extent

Treat your customers fairly. Don't forget your customers when you go big time. Word of mouth will give you more business then you can handle 

my guy just did a $130,000 kitchen Reno for a disney executive that I referred him to. In the meantime 3 of my properties had minor issues that were $400-$3,000. I text him, he's over there , right away, immaculate clean, his guys clean up, use plastic- my renters happy - I am happy it's fine. 

 

Time management, communication, good work ethic, being fair very important. 
 

understsnd that a guy spending $300 or $300,000 is equal human beings. 

 

I will never go anywhere else. Heck when I buy house, I send him first , if he says no I don't go forward 

that's the kind of trust and relationship I have with him 

 

I bought a new property. Needs full gut out and rebuild. I am giving him whole job. Almost 400,000 worth. I don't even cross shophim, as it's not worth my time . 
 

I bought a property oct 1. Needed $35k Reno. I gave him 3 weeks, keys, pictures and list. Never even met him there. 3 weeks later, done on time, perfect , and rented day 1. He texted me every 3 days progress. Renter is a medical director , rent is $4800 a month. Renter high maintenance - my guy manages it very well. To me that's worth weight in gold 

 

he's earned it 

 

 

you can do it too! 

daeman
daeman Dork
3/10/21 5:45 p.m.

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

Terribly sad that that's the truth isn't it. I see no point in lying or trying to misrepresent myself... I'll only be found wanting and a reputation is far easier to trash than it is to build. That goes double for a rural area, word spreads like wild fire out here.

daeman
daeman Dork
3/10/21 5:51 p.m.

In reply to RevRico :

Thanks, appreciate that insight alot. It has a very similar theme to a restoration/historic painter I spoke to. He's at a point now where people fly him across the country for jobs because he's pretty much the only person with the knowledge and ability to do what he does. 

I hear what you're saying about a niche, and hopefully over time as I gain more knowledge and experience it naturally starts to become apparent what my niche may well be.

daeman
daeman Dork
3/10/21 6:03 p.m.

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Mate, thank you, that's exactly the kind of insight and anecdote I was hoping would show up here.

Essentially, so long as you maintain integrity and fairness, your earnings are limited solely by ability and what you're willing to put in to it.

Loyalty is a two way street and it would appear one that's very well traveled in your example.

The old saying "Treat others as you'd like to be treated" exists for a reason.

Thank you, time will tell though

mikeatrpi
mikeatrpi HalfDork
3/10/21 6:13 p.m.

In reply to daeman :

Sounds right.  He's always talking about how much he's able to charge

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/10/21 6:31 p.m.
daeman said:

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

Terribly sad that that's the truth isn't it. I see no point in lying or trying to misrepresent myself... I'll only be found wanting and a reputation is far easier to trash than it is to build. That goes double for a rural area, word spreads like wild fire out here.

Definitely and it's a great way to do business too.

I'm in a rural area and I don't advertise. At one point a couple of my dad's clients only had his phone number and the home business phone. Well he was in the hospital and unconscious with his phone, I couldn't get it and we disconnected the business phone because it was over $150 a month and about 1 call every other month happened on that phone. So these people didn't have any numbers for us.

2 of his clients literally called people that know me and tried to find me in the store rather than use anyone else. That made me proud.

Another bit of advice I can give you is this: never ever try to be the cheapest because no one is happy at the end. 

I think it's a good line of work to get into, but like above......stay out of the very expensive restoration jobs.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia SuperDork
3/10/21 7:06 p.m.

Do Honest work , admit if you screwed up and eat it , do not try and hide the screw-ups

Save money for the slow  times  , 

Do not play your radio LOUD ,  or even at all if the owner is there , 

Make sure the $$$$ is there , if they are a slow pay at the start its probably not going to get any better , 

Be proud of your work ,  

 

Thats all I have now ,   if you enjoy doing this kind of work you will have a busy life :)

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UltraDork
3/10/21 7:59 p.m.
daeman said:

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Mate, thank you, that's exactly the kind of insight and anecdote I was hoping would show up here.

Essentially, so long as you maintain integrity and fairness, your earnings are limited solely by ability and what you're willing to put in to it.

Loyalty is a two way street and it would appear one that's very well traveled in your example.

The old saying "Treat others as you'd like to be treated" exists for a reason.

Thank you, time will tell though

I wish you the best mate. 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
3/10/21 8:15 p.m.

In reply to daeman :

If you pursue this, I have faith in you. You are asking all the right questions. 

daeman
daeman Dork
3/10/21 8:50 p.m.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:
daeman said:

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

Terribly sad that that's the truth isn't it. I see no point in lying or trying to misrepresent myself... I'll only be found wanting and a reputation is far easier to trash than it is to build. That goes double for a rural area, word spreads like wild fire out here.

Another bit of advice I can give you is this: never ever try to be the cheapest because no one is happy at the end. 

Couldn't agree more! It's something my potential mentor said too and I brought up similar in a conversation recently ... Something along the lines of "I may not end up being the cheapest or quickest, but that's because I want to be able to stand by my work"

Restoration definitely isn't a short term goal, and perhaps over time I'll find I'm happier doing the general stuff for others and leaving restoration for my own passion projects

daeman
daeman Dork
3/10/21 8:54 p.m.
californiamilleghia said:

Do Honest work , admit if you screwed up and eat it , do not try and hide the screw-ups

Save money for the slow  times  , 

Do not play your radio LOUD ,  or even at all if the owner is there , 

Make sure the $$$$ is there , if they are a slow pay at the start its probably not going to get any better , 

Be proud of your work ,  

 

Thats all I have now ,   if you enjoy doing this kind of work you will have a busy life :)

That's all very fair and sound advice. Alot of tradies seem to forget they're in other people's homes and businesses at times....

And yeah, there's always going to be times where it's just better to walk away from a job/potential job.

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