Any Real Estate Lawyers here? What are the possible outcomes of this?

You should be able to pull an actual copy of the latest deed. (Yes it is standard practice for the county to keep these records and they are available to the public) The property may be in the owners name but that doesn't mean he doesn't owe on it. (Our property is in my and my wifes name, but we owe the bank $$$ still.) Read the deed to find out whats going on. Having title research done is also a a must before putting down any cash. Land records can be confusing if you are not familiar with reviewing them.

Curmudgeon wrote: If you think it's a good deal, go back to the courthouse, find out what lender is involved then contact them directly. Cut this other guy out entirely.

And then this guy insists that the bank didn't have the right to sell it because he didn't sign off on it, refuses to move, and now Dad is having to deal with getting him evicted.

Sigh. The lender doesn't own the house and can't sell it to anyone unless they have completed the foreclosure process. They can sell their note, but then the buyer of the note would have to complete the foreclosure process to take possession.

In reply to Basil Exposition:

I completely agree with everything you have said. You are right.

However, you are also assuming the forclosure process has not been completed.

I am assuming it HAS been completed. Mostly because the OP said so.

The bottom line is that everything hinges on this one question, and none of us know. We are just guessing.

Mtn, you won't know without a title search. The easiest way to do this is with a lawyer.

First, hire a good real estate lawyer and let him do a title search for you. Real estate is not like cars; possession of the "deed" does not give you good title. Most states have "race/notice" rule so that only the records at the appropriate office(usually the Register of Deeds but sometimes after unification, called the Clerk's Office)control who is the owner of the property. There can be competing claims and until priority is determined by a court, the claims will be a cloud on the title. Foreclosures of the non-judicial type can just add to the cloud on title especially if the documents have defects. I cannot tell you how many times I see potential clients who have paid the $$ and have no documents to back up the claim of ownership. Yes, lawyers are to be avoided in most parts of life but this is not the time to practice that theory of life. You need to talk to a good real estate lawyer immediately or walk away from the property.

Someone at some point has to go downtown and visit the 7 offices necessary to figure out who owns the property now, what liens are outstanding against it, what judgements have been awarded, etc. It will take visiting a string of county offices that will make you want to jump off a ledge, but it is the only way to know for sure. A real-estate agent won't do it, a lawyer will for a fee. That is your best bet because honestly, it is a pain and you have to know where to go and what forms to submit. (What the heck is a prothonotary anyway?!?)

Once you know who will be getting paid and who holds the deed to the property, you can move forward. My buddy recently bought a weekend cabin with a similar history. It sat unsold for years because no one wanted to do the leg work to figure it out. He ended up contacting 6-8 people with liens against the property and making them each an offer for a fraction of what they were owed. He figured that since he was the ONLY offer they received in 5 years, they might be willing to take something instead of nothing. It took over a year, but he reduced the liens by 85% and got the house for a fraction of it's value. The legwork can pay off.

Just to reiterate something that was mentioned in the second sentence of this thread: There will not be money laid down without a lawyer delving through everything.

What county and state is the property located in? I might be able to help with a title search for you.

dyintorace wrote: What county and state is the property located in? I might be able to help with a title search for you.

Send me an email at [username]ovak1 AT yahoo dot com (my PM's don't work)

mtn wrote:

dyintorace wrote: What county and state is the property located in? I might be able to help with a title search for you.

Send me an email at [username]ovak1 AT yahoo dot com (my PM's don't work)

Done

Basil Exposition wrote: Sigh. The lender doesn't own the house and can't sell it to anyone unless they have completed the foreclosure process. They can sell their note, but then the buyer of the note would have to complete the foreclosure process to take possession.

Doesn't matter; even if it's still in process the lender has a vested interest in the property which, in the case of a foreclosure, overrides that of the owner being foreclosed on. So if money changes hands now and it turns out at a later date the lender has a valid claim to the property then dad is screwed.

The OP says no $ will change hands until it's been thoroughly vetted by a lawyer, that's a great idea. And I detest lawyers for the most part.

One other thing I would add, if earnest money needs to change hands do NOT give it to the 'owner'. It needs to go into an escrow account (typically with a real estate agent, that's how I'm handling the sale of some rental property right now) and it also needs to be refundable to your dad in the event that something beyond his control prevents clear conveyance of the deed/title.

Oh, and buy title insurance! There's no telling how this guy could have encumbered the property over the years and the last thing your dad needs is some goober popping up 5 years from now shaking a piece of paper and demanding $$$$. No title insurance = you fight this on your own. Title insurance = they fight it for you.

dyintorace wrote:

mtn wrote:

dyintorace wrote: What county and state is the property located in? I might be able to help with a title search for you.

Send me an email at [username]ovak1 AT yahoo dot com (my PM's don't work)

Done

There's a lot of mud here and not much clarity. Although the OP says it was foreclosed several years ago, that can't be the case if the "owner" (mortgagee) is still in the picture. It sounds like the process was started several years ago and the owner filed suit to stop it. The sheriff's sale is the last step in the foreclosure process and we are told that hasn't taken place. So as I said, going to the lender, if that is still their role, isn't a way to buy the property (because the lender doesn't own it). But you can't buy it from the owner without him making some settlement with the lender in the process in order to get clear title. The processes for doing all these things are locality-specific. For example, there are non-judicial foreclosures and judicial foreclosures depending on the state. The latter tend to take longer and are more difficult for the lender.

Actually, we were told that the Sheriff's sale may have happened, or may not have.

Double check the first post.

Like I said, you are assuming foreclosure has not been completed, I am assuming it has. Neither of us knows.

BTW, the OP never said the "owner" was still in the picture (as far as actual ownership).

He said the "owner" approached his Dad, and has the deed in his safety deposit box.

That's why I said he no longer owns the property. Like you, I am not of the opinion that this deal has not been completed if it began.

The simple explanation is the guy no longer owns the house, even though he may think he does.

But I could be wrong.

So we're still trying to figure out what is going on with the property, but it is becoming much clearer. Keep in mind all of this has been going on for 2 years now.

Someone came in and took all the personal property that was left in the place and put it to the curb. We believe it was a new mortgage company/bank/whoever. We've heard from a realtor that it will be listed and not auctioned. And the real estate lawyer has been hired. Hopefully nobody drags their feet for too long and this can just be bought outright.