Dig the light-hearted finish. Wish bachman and huntsman would go away.
Dig the light-hearted finish. Wish bachman and huntsman would go away.
poopshovel wrote:93EXCivic wrote:Give it a minute. It's crazy. I started out convinced I'd vote for Herman Cain. Then was convinced I'd vote for Ron Paul. Now I'm thinking "Who's going to beat Obama?" I don't think RP stands a chance in a head to head debate. Herman is getting more comfortable/sounding more presidential all the time. My personal dark horse: Newt. Out of everyone up there, he'd eat Obama's ass for breakfast in a debate. (ewww, you'd eat Obama's ass for breakfast?) The three dumbest people on that stage are getting the most mic time. The BVI is sounding better all the time.JG Pasterjak wrote:Surprised 9/11 wasn't worked in there for good measure.poopshovel wrote: Perry (bush III) is trying to go all tough guy on Romney but won't look him in the eye. Bad form.It obviously got to Romney a little bit, though. During that exchange Romney babbled out a "sentence" that consisted only of the words "America," "Freedom" and "opportunity" just repeated in different orders. jg
Newt is clearly the smartest guy up there, but he's also crazy, and possibly evil.
Ron Paul comes off as absolutely, 100% sincere and honest (which is not hard in that company, but still...). I may not agree with too much of what he has to say, but he says it with a degree of sincerity that none of the other candidates can even approach. His appeal is as obvious as his lack of hope of ever being President.
Cain... meh. Doesn't seem to have a grasp of the true complexity of the issues. Seems like an okay guy, but probably won't make it more than a primary or two before he pulls the plug.
Bachmann... wow. The breadth and depth of her insanity and lack of grasp on reality never really sunk in until tonight. The fact that she's made it this far makes me wonder if this country deserves to survive.
And Romney and Perry are both empty-suit clowns trying to say as little as possible using as many big buzzwords as they can.
Politics in this country has devolved to the point where no one even wants to solve problems anymore. They simply want to put the other guy in a position to fail so they look better by comparison. It'd be depressing if I wasn't already so jaded.
jg
The fact that Ron Paul is being ignored by pretty much every "news" media channel on tv tells me he's the only one who is worth a E36 M3 out of the entire group.
Grizz wrote: The fact that Ron Paul is being ignored by pretty much every "news" media channel on tv tells me he's the only one who is worth a E36 M3 out of the entire group.
So, you're that guy who sits with the crazy uncle at Thanksgiving dinner.
As one who leans strongly Libertarian, I can't imagine RP as a potential candidate or an electable opposer to Obama.
At this point, the entire field has better ideas towards recovering the economy than the incumbent. Put me in the ABO (anyone-but-Obama) camp because that's the issue that will decide the 2012 election.
I said worth a E36 M3, not electable. 
I'm still voting for him. Only one who wont ignore everything he said on the campaign once he got into office. And he isn't insane like Bachmann, Bush 3 like Perry, or Zero with a R next to his name like Romney.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone the far left and right hate equally is a good choice for prez.
oldsaw wrote: At this point, the entire field has better ideas towards recovering the economy than the incumbent. Put me in the ABO (anyone-but-Obama) camp because that's the issue that will decide the 2012 election.
Be careful what you wish for - that same line of thought is what got Obama elected in the first place...
Ian F wrote: Be careful what you wish for - that same line of thought is what got Obama elected in the first place...
Well now, it just seems to be working so swell for you guys down south, might as well keep it up! 
There was "thought" involved on the part of obama voters? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
poopshovel wrote: There was "thought" involved on the part of obama voters?
Yep. I didn't see either candidate as particularly good or bad. Obama took the most boringest running mate ever. McCain chose Palin. I wasn't going to vote for an administration with that much bat-E36 M3-crazy in it. I'd rather have completely boring and ineffectual. The government that gets nothing done doesn't trample on my rights.
Maybe I'm jaded, but I see one of the major functions of our government system is to take the people who want to accrue power and influence. Gather them all together. Polarize them. Then pit them head to head against each other so that no one is actually able to accrue enough power to inflict their misguided will on the populace.
Salanis wrote:poopshovel wrote: There was "thought" involved on the part of obama voters?Yep. I didn't see either candidate as particularly good or bad. Obama took the most boringest running mate ever. McCain chose Palin. I wasn't going to vote for an administration with that much bat-E36 M3-crazy in it. I'd rather have completely boring and ineffectual. The government that gets nothing done doesn't trample on my rights. Maybe I'm jaded, but I see one of the major functions of our government system is to take the people who want to accrue power and influence. Gather them all together. Polarize them. Then pit them head to head against each other so that no one is actually able to accrue enough power to inflict their misguided will on the populace.
I'm still happy with my decision. I agree with Salainis. That does not mean I agree with everything Obama does, but I feel it could be worse in other hands. We will never know.
N Sperlo wrote:Salanis wrote:I'm still happy with my decision. I agree with Salainis. That does not mean I agree with everything Obama does, but I feel it could be worse in other hands. We will never know.poopshovel wrote: There was "thought" involved on the part of obama voters?Yep. I didn't see either candidate as particularly good or bad. Obama took the most boringest running mate ever. McCain chose Palin. I wasn't going to vote for an administration with that much bat-E36 M3-crazy in it. I'd rather have completely boring and ineffectual. The government that gets nothing done doesn't trample on my rights. Maybe I'm jaded, but I see one of the major functions of our government system is to take the people who want to accrue power and influence. Gather them all together. Polarize them. Then pit them head to head against each other so that no one is actually able to accrue enough power to inflict their misguided will on the populace.
+1
poopshovel wrote: There was "thought" involved on the part of obama voters?
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity or media bias. 
poopshovel wrote: There was "thought" involved on the part of obama voters?
I can't view youtube from here...
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Republicans wanted to lose in 2008 because they knew we'd still be in this pile of economic E36 M3 no matter who got elected - because the President has no real power to fix it. If they really wanted to win, they never would have put Palin on the ticket.
As I look at the choices for 2012, I'm not convinced they want to win this election either...
Salanis wrote: Yep. I didn't see either candidate as particularly good or bad. Obama took the most boringest running mate ever. McCain chose Palin. I wasn't going to vote for an administration with that much bat-E36 M3-crazy in it. I'd rather have completely boring and ineffectual. The government that gets nothing done doesn't trample on my rights. Maybe I'm jaded, but I see one of the major functions of our government system is to take the people who want to accrue power and influence. Gather them all together. Polarize them. Then pit them head to head against each other so that no one is actually able to accrue enough power to inflict their misguided will on the populace.
Seriously?
I think McCain would have focused his attention on the economy and tackled the social issues at a later date and with much less fervor. Throwing a trillion dollars at a hodge-podge collection of hare-brained, partisan ideas likely would never have crossed his mind. As far as VP choices, Palin would have had to learn very quickly. At least she already knew how to run a government; Biden still only knows how to run his mouth and trips over his tongue more than Gerald Ford tripped on steps. Palin can be faulted for running from her governorship, but at least she ran for the gold and found it instead of sticking around waiting for a herd of lawyers raid her and her state's coffers.
As far as your assessment of current government, you may be right. It certainly didn't start that way though.
YMMV
Ian F wrote: As I look at the choices for 2012, I'm not convinced they want to win this election either...
I think they wanted to win in '08, but I am wondering the same thing this round. It doesn't seem they're mounting much of a challenge. I think maybe they feel like they're more able to do what they want to do in Congress. Winning the White House as well might make it more difficult. The economy is going to be tough for a bit and people are going to blame it on someone. So far, Bush and Obama seem to be getting the lion's share of the heat.
I'm thinking there's a good chance they could dip a net in the toilet and pull out a win. I certainly hope that's the case. For those that are always pulling this "Well, the president doesn't really have any real power to fix the economy..." garbage. It was the President who pushed the bull E36 M3 Stimulus bill and "Shovel ready jobs," the President who pushed the healthcare bill, the President who personally pushed for the "loan" (kickback) to Solyndra, and now the same President who's screaming "PASS THIS BILL. DON'T READ IT. DON'T QUESTION IT. JUST PASS IT," for stimulus II.
He's also the guy who said HE was the motherberkeleyer who was going to "fix" the economy, and people ate it up. If he can't fix it, then why is he getting us trillions more in debt, telling us he's going to....FIX IT!
I loved Gary Johnson’s comment about how his “neighbors' two dogs have created more shovel ready jobs than the current administration”…Bhahah!!!
poopshovel wrote: I'm thinking there's a good chance they could dip a net in the toilet and pull out a win. I certainly hope that's the case. For those that are always pulling this "Well, the president doesn't really have any real power to fix the economy..." garbage. It was the President who pushed the bull E36 M3 Stimulus bill and "Shovel ready jobs," the President who pushed the healthcare bill, the President who personally pushed for the "loan" (kickback) to Solyndra, and now the same President who's screaming "PASS THIS BILL. DON'T READ IT. DON'T QUESTION IT. JUST PASS IT," for stimulus II. He's also the guy who said HE was the motherberkeleyer who was going to "fix" the economy, and people ate it up. If he can't fix it, then why is he getting us trillions more in debt, telling us he's going to....FIX IT!
I guess you aren't the only one who feels that way.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-office-vandalized-los-angeles-180115921.html
oldsaw wrote: As far as VP choices, Palin would have had to learn very quickly.
Are you seriously suggesting that giving that woman more power and celebrity would have made her less crazy?
As far as your assessment of current government, you may be right. It certainly didn't start that way though.
Seriously? You aught to read the Federalist Papers then.
poopshovel wrote: President who's screaming "PASS THIS BILL. DON'T READ IT. DON'T QUESTION IT. JUST PASS IT,"
The one that's been posted on the internet for almost two weeks? The one they're running commercials for asking people to read it? The one that Boehner and Cantor are picking to pieces point by point every time they see a TV camera? They sure seem to know what's in it. It's only like 400 pages. Even those guys can read that fast. Pelosi helps them with the big words.
Here ya go, if you're interested.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/jobsact#overview
Did you read the Ryan budget?
Dunno. Fine with me if you don't like Obama. There's plenty to criticize about him. Don't really need to make things up. Did you know he uses a teleprompter... like every other President in the last 40 years?
Salanis wrote:oldsaw wrote: As far as VP choices, Palin would have had to learn very quickly.Are you seriously suggesting that giving that woman more power and celebrity would have made her *less* crazy?As far as your assessment of current government, you may be right. It certainly didn't start that way though.Seriously? You aught to read the Federalist Papers then.
Perhaps you should define "crazy" first? Is your application perjorative or clinical?
As far as the Federalist Papers, I'm not well-versed but I'm reading them. Which of those 85 documents can you point out to reinforce your statement?
Askin' cause I'm curious and knowledge is a good thing.
In reply to fast_eddie_72:
What was the "made-up" part of poopie's post?
The President is in full-campaign mode and is appealing to the public to exert pressure on a Congress with a "do-nothing" reputation. This was/is a political ploy by a President who will not/cannot deviate from his ideology.
Reagan and Clinton are good examples of Presidents who learned how to deal with Congress and get results. The jury is still out on Obama............
oldsaw wrote: Perhaps you should define "crazy" first? Is your application perjorative or clinical? As far as the Federalist Papers, I'm not well-versed but I'm reading them. Which of those 85 documents can you point out to reinforce your statement? Askin' cause I'm curious and knowledge is a good thing.
Perjorative. Crap like being hung up on abstinence only education as your underage daughter goes out and gets knocked up because you never taught her about reality.
It's been about 5 years since I read them, so I can't remember. I want to say 5 or 12, but I'm probably totally wrong on those. I might also be mistaking the ideas for something else I read in government class. Generally referring to the idea of factions, and how every faction generally believes they know what is best, and so will try to inflict their will upon the populace. That a strong federal government is there to draw in so many factions that it is very difficult for any one faction to gain significant enough leverage to really enact their will strongly. And no, our two major parties are not really factions in the sense the Federalist Papers were talking about. They are groups composed of many different factions.
Edit: Looks like Federalist 9-10 are the ones about Factions.
oldsaw wrote: The President is in full-campaign mode and is appealing to the public to exert pressure on a Congress with a "do-nothing" reputation. This was/is a political ploy by a President who will not/cannot deviate from his ideology.
I have to agree with you there. I really hate this crap. He has no intention of getting this bill passed. Completely political move. The "made up" part I was reacting to was the "pass a bill but don't read it". Ironic when they're running (campaign) ads telling everyone in America to go read it. And to my point, the political maneuver disguised as a "job" bill is a great example of a legitimate complaint.
oldsaw wrote: The President is in full-campaign mode...
We have an interesting absurdity going on in Los Angeles today. He is visiting for a campaign fundraising event. What is absurd? The fact that he is arriving at around 5pm and driving across the city (hopefully he will take a helicopter), or the fact that he is leaving at around 9am the next morning? Potentially inconveniencing millions of people?
No, the absurdity of the whole thing is that he is expected to generate about 1.5 million in campaign funds with this trip, but I feel pretty confident that the trip will cost more then 1.5 million! It would probably be cheaper, and far easier on everyone if he just took federal money and put it into his campaign fund and stayed in Washington!
P.S. This is not Obama isolated behavior. Sadly it is a very common part of the political process.
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