Anyone else seeing a pattern in economic news?

very soon... the 1% will be controlling 50% of the wealth......

aircooled wrote: Honestly. You want to make money out of this? Find a way to make money off people who think the world is ending, that is normally the best route (don't dig a mine, sell the tools to the miner).

agree.

Enyar wrote: I'm all for it! Housing prices in my part of town are right back up to the peak, pre collapse. Houses are selling like crazy, inventory is low and everything I try to buy gets bought by a cash investor. Lets bring those prices back down so I can buy something dammit!

…careful what you wish for.

Everything is interconnected and as a result, home prices won’t go down independently. Rather, if they go down, it’ll be attributable to some combination of the following:

Employment / wages are down…not good for you.

Mortgage interest rates are high…not good for you.

Regulatory changes have made home ownership less attractive…not good for you.

Demand is down (polite way of saying we’ve had a pandemic or war)…not good for you.

Money is being directed elsewhere…not good for you. (This implies that others are taking advantage of an opportunity that you wouldn’t be if you buy a home)

Basically, if people can’t or won’t spend as much on a home in the future as they do now, there’s a reason for it and in the absence of any extenuating factors, you’re likely to be just as affected as anyone else.

The real people that would benefit from lowered home values are those that already have a home and are planning to move up. Yeah, I sold my existing home for 100K less but I saved 150K on my new home.

Hungary Bill wrote:

mtn wrote: I see a lot of fear mongering, personally. Not the first time this has happened, and it won't be the last. We'll survive.... I personally think that the bigger issue is the lack of personal financial intelligence on the whole.

This this this! (edited long post) If you're financially intelligent, you'll be fine. It's the wasteful that will be punished. Adapt. Overcome.

See that right there is the major problem. Most people have no idea how to live in their means. Most people in this country are upside down in a butt load of credit card debt and the like. Most of the country is use to being able to get what they want when they want it. They don't have to wait for anything. If they ever did they wouldn't be able to stand it. I also think many people have a real hard time adapting to changing conditions these days because they get so comfortable in their daily lives.

As usual, this type of thread has scared the E36 M3 out of me. However, the only money I owe are on housing. I am fairly capable doing a variety of things so getting by shouldn't be too bad. I just verified that my parents house is paid off so in case of utter collapse I will have a place to sleep and grow a garden.

oldeskewltoy wrote: very soon... the 1% will be controlling 50% of the wealth......

I thought we officially hit that threshold recently.

Another fun fact, the eighty richest people in the world have as much wealth as the bottom half of humanity.

Yeah, OST, they just passed that. But, hey, here's how to fix it: Take all the money from the middle class and give it to the poor!!! It's genius.

rebelgtp wrote: Most people in this country are upside down in a butt load of credit card debt and the like.

There certainly are people who do that, but 'most' may be a strong word. I can't vouch for the accuracy of this link but it indicates the percentage of people carrying credit card debt has been going down.

Card issuers divide the world into two groups: "transactors" who use their cards for purchases and pay off the balances each month; and "revolvers" who carry balances on their cards, paying interest charges month to month. To pure transactors, the balances on their cards aren't really debts at all, since any purchases will be paid off before interest charges are applied.

The number of revolvers has been decreasing steadily since 2009, when the National Foundation for Credit Counseling first began surveying Americans about the issue. In 2014, only about one in three U.S. adults say their household carries credit card debt from month to month, down from 44 percent in 2009. Some 15 percent of adults -- more than 35 million people -- roll over $2,500 or more in credit card debt each month.

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-debt-statistics-1276.php

Yes, people have been de-leveraging. That is one of the reasons that the federal government has been boosting deficit spending. The numbers gotta look good, and people paying off debt instead of buying more E36 M3 they don't need doesn't look good. Also, one in five Americans is on food stamps now, the modern equivalent of a soup kitchen/line.

singleslammer wrote: As usual, this type of thread has scared the E36 M3 out of me. However, the only money I owe are on housing. I am fairly capable doing a variety of things so getting by shouldn't be too bad. I just verified that my parents house is paid off so in case of utter collapse I will have a place to sleep and grow a garden.

Actually, the principle of not needing to out run the bear, just needing to out run the other camper applies here.

You don’t need to be able to pay off your mortgage in the advent of massive economic collapse to avoid foreclosure. Once a large percent of the population has gone under (I’ll take a rough guess of around 20%), all of the money available to pick up cheap foreclosures will have been spent.

At this point, there will be no incentive for banks to foreclosure on you as the property will just sit on their books and go into disarray.

So, you don’t need to be collapse proof, you just need to be strong enough that a significant percent of the population will go down before you.

Dr. Hess wrote: Yeah, OST, they just passed that. But, hey, here's how to fix it: Take all the money from the middle class and give it to the poor!!! It's genius.

Actually it is: the middle class pays for welfare to keep the poor from revolting, a perfect crabs-in-a-bucket arrangement.

rebelgtp wrote: See that right there is the major problem. Most people have no idea how to live in their means.

Would I be a jerk if I told you a big part of me often daydreams that one day these people will get what's coming to them?

I, unfortunately, am carrying way more debt than I feel comfortable with: House, one car, student loans.

Individually they didn't scare me much, as a whole they scare the crap out of me.

I carry only small personal loans now a days.....once those are gone and I can put 20% down on a new car, I'm going back into debt. After that, I need to start stashing money like its going out of style. People think house pricing is insane with all the investment people cocking it up, agricultural land is 5 times as expensive in my area as it was just 10 years ago when we bought our most recent 220ac. Back then it was a paultry $2,100 per acre....now the going rate is close to $10,000 per acre. Makes me wish my ancestors hadn't split up the 3000ac they owned in the 1920's. I guess at least we still have the best farm ground in the area.

We also get the added bonus of paying for the bulk of the public education budget with our property taxes. berkeleyers

oldeskewltoy wrote: very soon... the 1% will be controlling 50% of the wealth......

Funny how little this gets into the news.. even here, it got completely ignored.

In reply to mad_machine:

Why do you find it odd? They also own The News®.

6 or 7 corporations that now own the entire world news media.

aircooled wrote: Will the US explode? Dollar collapse? Unlikely. Why? The Dollar IS the world currency effectively (it goes down, everyone goes down, lots of people with money do not want that to happen / will not allow it to happen). It may not be great but it is FAR better then any other. That is why the US can print money and not get runaway inflation (not sure about the Euro though

China is working on changing this. We can't rely on it being the case forever.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/08/22/139564854/the-dollar-is-still-central-to-the-global-economy-that-may-not-last

http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-shuns-dollar-as-putin-strengthens-ties-with-china-1415972720

Mike wrote:

aircooled wrote: Will the US explode? Dollar collapse? Unlikely. Why? The Dollar IS the world currency effectively (it goes down, everyone goes down, lots of people with money do not want that to happen / will not allow it to happen). It may not be great but it is FAR better then any other. That is why the US can print money and not get runaway inflation (not sure about the Euro though

China is working on changing this. We can't rely on it being the case forever. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/08/22/139564854/the-dollar-is-still-central-to-the-global-economy-that-may-not-last http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-shuns-dollar-as-putin-strengthens-ties-with-china-1415972720

If you look at US monetary policy, you would be led to believe that the US is an active participant in the effort to remove the currency from its spot as the world currency. Every thing they have done for the last 6 years makes me think they WANT to tank the dollar? There was no reason at all to drop interest to zero and print a bazzilion dollars worth of paper. And yet they did so at someones request. They did so at the expense of the smart people in order to save the stupid people so that they could get back to being stupid. Which they have. Practicing inverse Darwinism as a economic policy does not bode well for the long term of the dollar or the economy.

I bet all you people in the US fishbowl happened to miss the deal that Canada made with China; where they agreed to bypass the US buck as a means of doing trade between the two countries? Saves both countries a bunch of $$$. It is a big deal not only because it takes value away from the US dollar as a facilitator of trade, but, since it lowers to cost of goods landed in Canada, it also makes it more attractive for Canadians to buy stuff from China in cases where it might have been a wash and more convenient with the US. In case you might be wondering, the same deals are already going down with other countries.

Here is another one to consider. The US imposed the FACTA rules on the world, where foreign banks are obligated to "out" any US depositors so that they can't shelter $$$ from the IRA. A significant number of European banks have decided that rather than spend millions to comply they will just refuse US clients. Another message of "We don't really need you." Funny how right about the time that the US decides to piss off the world banking industry, the Chinese come in bearing gifts?

So a quick samity check on how the US currency is looking:

As of now, Russia wants to end the USD reign and has allied with the world's largest economy (China) to bypass the dollar Canada has agreed to bypass the dollar in direct trade with China. South America will follow the leader and don't really care cause they get screwed anyways. Europe is on the fence while the US sticks it up their ass with FACTA.

So, my question is, are those setting US monetary policy stupid or complicit? My vote is on complicit because everything in Washington via the lobby system, is for sale, including the country. Anyone know who might have enough money (in the form of debt) to buy this much lobby power? Hint...Starts with a "C" and ends with an "A"

Course, I have been wrong before.

NOHOME wrote:

Mike wrote:

aircooled wrote: Will the US explode? Dollar collapse? Unlikely. Why? The Dollar IS the world currency effectively (it goes down, everyone goes down, lots of people with money do not want that to happen / will not allow it to happen). It may not be great but it is FAR better then any other. That is why the US can print money and not get runaway inflation (not sure about the Euro though

China is working on changing this. We can't rely on it being the case forever. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/08/22/139564854/the-dollar-is-still-central-to-the-global-economy-that-may-not-last http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-shuns-dollar-as-putin-strengthens-ties-with-china-1415972720

If you look at US monetary policy, you would be led to believe that the US is an active participant in the effort to remove the currency from its spot as the world currency. Every thing they have done for the last 6 years makes me think they WANT to tank the dollar? There was no reason at all to drop interest to zero and print a bazzilion dollars worth of paper. And yet they did so at someones request. They did so at the expense of the smart people in order to save the stupid people so that they could get back to being stupid. Which they have. Practicing inverse Darwinism as a economic policy does not bode well for the long term of the dollar or the economy. I bet all you people in the US fishbowl happened to miss the deal that Canada made with China; where they agreed to bypass the US buck as a means of doing trade between the two countries? Saves both countries a bunch of $$$. It is a big deal not only because it takes value away from the US dollar as a facilitator of trade, but, since it lowers to cost of goods landed in Canada, it also makes it more attractive for Canadians to buy stuff from China in cases where it might have been a wash and more convenient with the US. In case you might be wondering, the same deals are already going down with other countries. Here is another one to consider. The US imposed the FACTA rules on the world, where foreign banks are obligated to "out" any US depositors so that they can't shelter $$$ from the IRA. A significant number of European banks have decided that rather than spend millions to comply they will just refuse US clients. Another message of "We don't really need you." Funny how right about the time that the US decides to piss off the world banking industry, the Chinese come in bearing gifts? So a quick samity check on how the US currency is looking: As of now, Russia wants to end the USD reign and has allied with the world's largest economy (China) to bypass the dollar Canada has agreed to bypass the dollar in direct trade with China. South America will follow the leader and don't really care cause they get screwed anyways. Europe is on the fence while the US sticks it up their ass with FACTA. So, my question is, are those setting US monetary policy stupid or complicit? My vote is on complicit because everything in Washington via the lobby system, is for sale, including the country. Anyone know who might have enough money (in the form of debt) to buy this much lobby power? Hint...Starts with a "C" and ends with an "A" Course, I have been wrong before.

CanadA?

mad_machine wrote:

oldeskewltoy wrote: very soon... the 1% will be controlling 50% of the wealth......

Funny how little this gets into the news.. even here, it got completely ignored.

And strangely enough, the top 15% of earners pay 60% of the tax dollars that fund the country....strange how all that works huh?

Mike wrote:

NOHOME wrote:

Mike wrote:

aircooled wrote: Will the US explode? Dollar collapse? Unlikely. Why? The Dollar IS the world currency effectively (it goes down, everyone goes down, lots of people with money do not want that to happen / will not allow it to happen). It may not be great but it is FAR better then any other. That is why the US can print money and not get runaway inflation (not sure about the Euro though

China is working on changing this. We can't rely on it being the case forever. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/08/22/139564854/the-dollar-is-still-central-to-the-global-economy-that-may-not-last http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-shuns-dollar-as-putin-strengthens-ties-with-china-1415972720

If you look at US monetary policy, you would be led to believe that the US is an active participant in the effort to remove the currency from its spot as the world currency. Every thing they have done for the last 6 years makes me think they WANT to tank the dollar? There was no reason at all to drop interest to zero and print a bazzilion dollars worth of paper. And yet they did so at someones request. They did so at the expense of the smart people in order to save the stupid people so that they could get back to being stupid. Which they have. Practicing inverse Darwinism as a economic policy does not bode well for the long term of the dollar or the economy. I bet all you people in the US fishbowl happened to miss the deal that Canada made with China; where they agreed to bypass the US buck as a means of doing trade between the two countries? Saves both countries a bunch of $$$. It is a big deal not only because it takes value away from the US dollar as a facilitator of trade, but, since it lowers to cost of goods landed in Canada, it also makes it more attractive for Canadians to buy stuff from China in cases where it might have been a wash and more convenient with the US. In case you might be wondering, the same deals are already going down with other countries. Here is another one to consider. The US imposed the FACTA rules on the world, where foreign banks are obligated to "out" any US depositors so that they can't shelter $$$ from the IRA. A significant number of European banks have decided that rather than spend millions to comply they will just refuse US clients. Another message of "We don't really need you." Funny how right about the time that the US decides to piss off the world banking industry, the Chinese come in bearing gifts? So a quick samity check on how the US currency is looking: As of now, Russia wants to end the USD reign and has allied with the world's largest economy (China) to bypass the dollar Canada has agreed to bypass the dollar in direct trade with China. South America will follow the leader and don't really care cause they get screwed anyways. Europe is on the fence while the US sticks it up their ass with FACTA. So, my question is, are those setting US monetary policy stupid or complicit? My vote is on complicit because everything in Washington via the lobby system, is for sale, including the country. Anyone know who might have enough money (in the form of debt) to buy this much lobby power? Hint...Starts with a "C" and ends with an "A" Course, I have been wrong before.

CanadA?

OK, you figured dit out. But dont tell anyone. Harper's goofy cover seems to be working!

yamaha wrote:

mad_machine wrote:

oldeskewltoy wrote: very soon... the 1% will be controlling 50% of the wealth......

Funny how little this gets into the news.. even here, it got completely ignored.

And strangely enough, the top 15% of earners pay 60% of the tax dollars that fund the country....strange how all that works huh?

If you look at it dollar-for-dollar they do pay more.

sourced from a local paper On average, the bottom 20% of earners pay 10.9% of their earnings in state and local taxes, the middle 20% of earners pay 9.4% and the top 1% pay just 5.4%.

14% of the annual U.S. GDP goes to the 1/3 of the U.S. population deemed eligible for "need based payouts". Yet those are the ones paying the highest rate in local and state taxes...hrmmm. These are also the ones who go on to make up the majority of the military, corrections and law enforcement force.

Give with one hand, take with two others.

We ("we" being the lower and middle class) pay a higher percentage of our income for everything, when compared to the rich, if you want to get testicle about it.

Lately I've really been trying to determine where my political loyalties lie. At 35 years old I still don't fit into any party and never have. I suspect that is also the case with most GRMers.

At the risk of a big, stinky flounder the above is why I disagree with bumping the minimum wage to $15 per hour. Adjust it to the cost of living when needed sure but, if you really want to help, fix the berkeleying tax structure first! That would also fill a lot of government funding gaps, even though they would just find new and idiotic ways to spend it.

singleslammer wrote: As usual, this type of thread has scared the E36 M3 out of me. However, the only money I owe are on housing. I am fairly capable doing a variety of things so getting by shouldn't be too bad. I just verified that my parents house is paid off so in case of utter collapse I will have a place to sleep and grow a garden.

I went off on a bit of tangent with my last post...

Things like this scare the E36 M3 out of me too! I'm not sure how I'd provide for my family in the event of a complete financial meltdown.

The_Jed wrote:

yamaha wrote:

mad_machine wrote:

oldeskewltoy wrote: very soon... the 1% will be controlling 50% of the wealth......

Funny how little this gets into the news.. even here, it got completely ignored.

And strangely enough, the top 15% of earners pay 60% of the tax dollars that fund the country....strange how all that works huh?

If you look at it dollar-for-dollar they do pay more. *sourced from a local paper* On average, the bottom 20% of earners pay 10.9% of their earnings in state and local taxes, the middle 20% of earners pay 9.4% and the top 1% pay just 5.4%.

I tried to explain that to one of the bar-fly's at my dad's favorite watering hole. It didn't go well.

at $8.50 an hour at 10.9% in taxes is only $1927.12 in tax money

at $100k a year at 5.4% in taxes is $5400 in tax money (or two and a half times the minimum wage earner)

I'm making some assumptions here (ie: I don't really think that 100k a year would put you in the highest bracket) but I think the theory holds. People who make more pay more in taxes even though the percentage is less.

good times.

(I just noticed that your paper's "bottom + middle+ top" = 41% )

I assumed they just sampled and presented the data that most strongly supported their view, but yes, I noticed too.