Anyone every sue their auto insurance over a claim?

If so, did you have success? Ballpark figure you spent?

I have my vehicle in for repair at a reputable shop. My insurance company says they are willing to pay 1/3 of what the shop estimates an no more. The claims adjuster is both dishonest and unpleasant to deal with. Today, after a week of trying, I spoke with his manager who said "his intent is not to mislead," basically saying he did not lie to me, I simply mis-understood what he said. And she will not assign a different agent to work with me. So no progress on their end.

The shop is capable of doing the repair correctly, however their estimate is similar to the cost of vehicle replacement. Everyone at the insurance company says they are not willing to discuss a total write off.

If the shop repairs the car correctly, and the insurance company does not budge and will not pay more than 1/3 of the costs, who pays the difference? Will I have to sue the insurance company for the difference?

Most of the research I have been doing comes up with personal injury lawsuits, which I have no involvement. The car was parked and hit by a drunk. Cost is a factor: the vehicle is worth around $10,000. I have a loan for less than $4000 left, could pay off, but it is low interest. The insurance company is willing to pay $3000 for the repair, the shop says it will cost $9,900 for the repair. Will a lawer charge me $2k to get me $4k from the insurance company?

It has been longer than a month and the first part was ordered last week, I read this insurance company is now famous for "deny, delay, defend," and they are good at the first 2! Really don't want to go to court.

This is a big, popular insurance company, had a good reputation. This is my first claim in the 8 years I have had them. I will be getting a new company after this is settled.

In appreciation for you reading, here is a picture of (not mine) mclaren fox body I took at spring carlisle. Because all threads should have pictures!

"built in" radar detector.

I would call the AG office in your state and ask to speak to a person familiar with the laws that govern insurance.

I would also pull out your policy and read it.

There are several of us here who work or have worked for insurance carriers who can probably help. Hopefully those who have nothing helpful to say except that insurance companies suck and to lawyer up now will stay out of this so that those with knowledge can actually help you.

First, most policies have an arbitration provision to resolve disputes like this, so no need to file suit, you make a formal demand for arbitration, but there are plenty of other options before that so let's forget about that for now.

Most of these kind of disputes come from people not actually reading or understanding what their policy actually provides. In this case, what is the actual dispute over that is causing the disparity in repair costs between their estimate and your shop? Once we understand that we can be of much better help.

The other general avenues that I would explore before looking into arbitration are calling up the chain another level, or you can file a complaint with the state insurance commission, something my company takes very seriously.

Once we know more of the details of the specific issue, let's see what sort of solutions we can find.

Just saw you are in PA. So am I and at least 2 others here, so we have some local knowledge too.

In FL my father-in-law threatened to sue his insurance company over a similar situation. What is the reason they are only willing to pay $3000? Is the $3000 their estimated value?

You do have the ability to reject their offer. I know for my father-in-law a nasty letter from an attorney got the insurance to "play ball". Total cost for teh attorney to write the letter was about $200... probably written by a paralegal and signed off by the attorney.

No INS knowledge, but google brought this up. PA follows this formula, and that may be why INS will only pay $3K.

Cost of Repair + Salvage Value > Actual Cash Value. If the sum of the first two quantities is greater than the ACV, the car can be declared a total loss. As an example, a damaged 2002 Toyota Echo with 185,000 miles in good condition has an ACV of approximately $2,800. Total repair costs are estimated at $2,000, for a damage ratio of 72 percent. This car would be considered a total loss in Arkansas, where the TLT is 70 percent, but not in Florida where the TLT is 80 percent. In Illinois, the TLF would be used and, if the salvage were worth $700, the car would not be totaled ($2,000 + $700 < $2,800). Of course, states utilizing the TLF rely on and defer to the judgment and opinions of licensed appraisers. Individual state laws provide the following with regard to the TLT:

Big things we need to know, is your insurance company covering the car or the drunks.

If its yours do you have a stated value policy on the car. A standard policy on a fastback of that era would have a book value of like 2-3K on insurance rolls. They could care less that it is a "mclaren" or anything special to them its just a mustang. Without a stated value policy you were paying the rates on a standard mustang and you are going to get standard mustang payouts. Not specialty car payouts no matter what you do or how hard you stamp your feet. If they want to get real nasty they can deny all coverage as the car they are insuring is not actually what you are driving. I would not be surprised if they agree to buy you out for open market value on a fox-body at 3K and tell you to piss off.

Now if the drunks coverage is what is paying for this and he has 5K state minimum insurance then after they give you there cut you would go after him personally, which is akin to pissing up a rope for somebody with minimal coverage.

This is why you need to be extremely careful with who you chose as your insurance provider and how you use specially cars. Most companies would not cover a 10K foxbody without stated value and a heavy mileage or DD restriction.

Sorry, I have nothing to add other than the Harley guy is blocking the view of a Honda MB5.

No idea of whether suing will do any good, but yeah it makes sense to get an agreed value policy on a specialty vehicle. That way there's no 'misunderstandings' later. But don't count on the large carriers to stand behind or even issue an agreed value policy. How do I know?

I fixed a car for a friend several years ago, it was a 1968 MGB roadster which suffered an electrical fire. Beautiful condition. She had paid State Farm extra for an agreed value policy and they did their best to wriggle out of it and she eventually hired an attorney. They finally paid, grudgingly; not sure how much the attorney cost her. I had to make a new wiring harness from one for a newer car, swap for a later alternator, all kinds of stuff (1968 was a one year only for the type of alternator).

Sonic wrote: There are several of us here who work or have worked for insurance carriers who can probably help. Hopefully those who have nothing helpful to say except that insurance companies suck and to lawyer up now will stay out of this so that those with knowledge can actually help you. First, most policies have an arbitration provision to resolve disputes like this, so no need to file suit, you make a formal demand for arbitration, but there are plenty of other options before that so let's forget about that for now. Most of these kind of disputes come from people not actually reading or understanding what their policy actually provides. In this case, what is the actual dispute over that is causing the disparity in repair costs between their estimate and your shop? Once we understand that we can be of much better help. The other general avenues that I would explore before looking into arbitration are calling up the chain another level, or you can file a complaint with the state insurance commission, something my company takes very seriously. Once we know more of the details of the specific issue, let's see what sort of solutions we can find.

Thanks for such a quick reply.

We are currently at a standstill, waiting on the fender to be delivered.

Once the fender is delivered, the shop will write the 4th "adjustment" to justify what the costs for repair are (what the insurance company adjuster apparently can't see). This is apparently the procedure to go through when the insurance company's estimator and shop estimator are at odds/have such a variance. I have a few estimates in hand. The shop lists all details to repair, and total is over $9,000. The insurance company estimator lists less details and says repair can be done for around $3,000. That is after a third estimate from the insurance company's agent (started much lower, they missed many problem areas). There will be a 4th estimate by the insurance company's adjuster after the fender is pulled and damage to underlying structure is pointed out.

The insurance company's estimator stated the vehicle could be repaired by pulling the dent, bondo, paint in x hours. The shop stated the vehicle could not be properly repaired with a hammer and bondo (I agree thoroughly), would require the fender to be pulled, under-panel repaired which costs x^2 hours. Thus the variance. Claim started a month ago.

I have comprehensive and collision on this vehicle. I have a police report, the collision was witnessed. I have a deductible and will happily pay that.

My concerns are: what if it costs the vehicle's value to repair properly. According to the manager, we will not address that now. I feel now is a great time to address, as the fender has not been cut off and this would be an opportune time to minimize costs and walk away. Other concern, if they will just pay for the repair. My insurance company does not like this shop, apparently they have some lawsuits against them right now. This is a very good shop, with a very good reputation. I have been working with a "specialized difficult claims" office from the beginning, the adjuster intimately familiar with this shop. The insurance company adjuster is making this process unpleasant, his manager could care less and will not transfer me to another agent after my explicit request.

I understand I am not currently in a position to sue, file a complaint with the state etc. yet, I simply want to be prepared and attempt to avoid this all together. Realistically, I just want the car fixed properly. I do not want to be in a position in a few months (ignoring the inconvenience of not having this vehicle) where the shop is waiting on $x for reimbursement for the work they did, and my insurance company is not willing to pay that for whatever reason.

"calling up the chain" was my first attempt, this is very difficult!

It took me a week to get a hold of a "team manager." I was given wrong phone numbers, transferred to wrong voice mails, and flat out told that names, business phone numbers and business emails of managers could NOT be released to me. After expressing my concerns of unprofessional behavior of her agent, this particular manager said my concerns were discussed with the agent, but were not valid. I can not find a listing of names and phone numbers, or emails, of "higher up's."

wearymicrobe wrote: Big things we need to know, is your insurance company covering the car or the drunks. If its yours do you have a stated value policy on the car. A standard policy on a fastback of that era would have a book value of like 2-3K on insurance rolls. They could care less that it is a "mclaren" or anything special to them its just a mustang. Without a stated value policy you were paying the rates on a standard mustang and you are going to get standard mustang payouts. Not specialty car payouts no matter what you do or how hard you stamp your feet. If they want to get real nasty they can deny all coverage as the car they are insuring is not actually what you are driving. I would not be surprised if they agree to buy you out for open market value on a fox-body at 3K and tell you to piss off. Now if the drunks coverage is what is paying for this and he has 5K state minimum insurance then after they give you there cut you would go after him personally, which is akin to pissing up a rope for somebody with minimal coverage. This is why you need to be extremely careful with who you chose as your insurance provider and how you use specially cars. Most companies would not cover a 10K foxbody without stated value and a heavy mileage or DD restriction.

Sorry, the Mclaren is not mine!

It is just a cool picture.

My car is a stupid honda.

The insurance company is my insurance company.

My vehicle was parked, someone smashed into it, then drove away. Someone saw it happen, called the police, and filed a report. No one knows who the individual is who did the hit and run.

My boring honda is sitting at the body shop.

Value vs cost to repair is a valid concern of mine, but according to the adjusters, something they are not willing to discuss.

In reply to fujioko:

I apologize for my poor photo taking skills

In reply to daytonaer:

Its a standard Honda tell them to get off there collective asses and fix the car or total it. You definitely have something odd going on them. A strongly worded letter from an attorney can go both ways IMO. Normally it gets them moving if they are dragging their collective feet. If they like dragging there feet they are just going to dig a hole that you have to pull them out of first. Insurance companies and repair guys should be within 10% of each other out of the gate in most cases unless its something crazy like a compete repaint due to paint age or aluminum frame damage.

Sounds like you have a tough combo of the carrier being a bit cheap and your chosen shop being one of the "difficult" ones. Both need to give as both have room. Your policy most likely does not cover all OEM parts for an older car, which is what the shop is probably writing for, so if you want that, you can pay the difference. The shop is also likely charging for plenty of unnecessary work (or bits that are included in other line items) to fluff up the estimate. I've dealt with a handful of really difficult shops, and they are no better than a tough carrier, and in fact they owe each other their existence: the carrier is cheap because the shop is excessive, etc, so the compromise is the right answer, having done body work and having worked for a carrier.

I bet I can guess which carrier you have from your description. You will have to push with them.

If you'd like me to take a look at the actual estimates and give an unbiased opinion of them, feel free to email me: abbottcd at gmail. I'm also curious to know which shop this is to see if I know them.

99% of the time the carrier and shop find a workable agreed price, but it takes compromise on both ends sometimes.

Sonic is right on in his reply...we're both in the same business. EDIT: Sonic was typing faster than me, his reply directly above mine is also spot on. I'm echoing a lot of the thoughts here.

From your description, I'm guessing you're referring to the quarter panel, not the fender, correct? You mentioned "cut off" and repair vs. replace. That's usually the quarter panel, as fenders are typically bolt on and cheap/easy to replace. Without seeing the damage, it's impossible to say if I think it should be repaired or replaced. I've seen shops fix some pretty nasty quarter panels, and do it well.

It's also possible the insurance adjuster is trying to "save" your car for you. If the estimate is around 80% of the actual cash value (ACV) of the car, they will typically declare it a total loss. So if replacing the quarter will push the estimate that high, then perhaps they're trying to not total it. I'm not blaming the shop, because I have no idea who you're using, nor am I asking you to name names. However, I can tell you from nearly two decades of experience, mostly in PA, that there are a lot of shops that have a good "reputation" with the public, but in reality are crooks. Some shops in the Philly area do phenomenal work, but will rape the insurance company and write estimates well beyond what it would really cost. That makes the dialogue/relationship between insurance and shop near impossible. If your insurance company has special adjusters for that shop, my educated guess is that this could be one of those shops that is notoriously difficult to work with.

Your insurance policy is a contract between you and the company. As Sonic said, there ultimately is an arbitration clause. So you wouldn't sue, you'd demand arbitration. You can do that without an attorney. However, before you get there, I'd push hard to get to a manager/team leader and get their take on the hold up. Again, I don't have enough info, but it sounds very much like a shop asking for the moon and the insurance company not willing to give it to them.

Sonic and Klay are 100% spot-on. I think I can guess which insurer this is also. Too bad you've chosen a shop that thinks going to war against insurance companies is good entertainment. There are a few of these idealogical idiots out there. Doesn't matter to me if they do good work or not; they stick the poor consumer in the middle just like this. I'd be stunned if you told me this wasn't in the eastern part of the state. My level of pity is going to be too low to be helpful since I've dealt with a few of these places over the years and have a very low opinion of them. I'll let the others answer your questions.

My suggestion? Move the car to another shop. Don't know where you live but the Honda dealer in Reading has an excellent shop. Insurance companies don't much like that one either but they are at least capable of dealing with each other and they are even a DRP for the big one that has 'Farm' in its name.

ddavidv wrote: Don't know where you live but the Honda dealer in Reading has an excellent shop. Insurance companies don't much like that one either but they are at least capable of dealing with each other and they are even a DRP for the big one that has 'Farm' in its name.

Yup, they are a very good shop. I had them do the work on my wife's Fit when it got sideswiped. They ask for a lot, but they do the work and do it right. I used the shop at my previous employer for our training class. We would take the new adjusters there for a body shop visit. Joe was always happy to have us and was great with them.

Have you gotten any other estimates? Load the Honda onto a tow truck and drive it around to several other shops. If all of their estimates are in line with the first, then proceed to burn down your insurance company through a lawyer.

jimbob_racing wrote: If all of their estimates are in line with the first, then proceed to burn down your insurance company through a lawyer.

Burn them down just because the adjuster doesn't agree with the shop, or even a few shops? It's a simple disagreement. As said earlier, both the shop and the adjuster should try to compromise. However, there are cases where the body shop will hold a car hostage and whisper sweet nothings in the ear of the customer. This creates a lot of that mistrust of insurance, which is undeserved. The agreement between the customer and their insurance is a contract, the terms are clearly spelled out for anyone who actually reads the policy. The general thought of "lawyering up" just feeds into the issue, and all too many attorneys are happy to feed it. Though in this case, it's unlikely you'd find an attorney to take the case unless they were a friend or something like that. There's no financial gain in it for the lawyer. The most you'd get is the full cash value of the car if it's totaled. There is no "burning down" to be done.

Thanks again for the replies.

The whole turning in a claim was a struggle to begin with. I don't mind dented cars, it doesn't hurt my pride.

The reason I turned in a claim is due to the damage, and where it is. It is a honda cr-z, and the rear corner is smashed in. This is why the "fender," and "rear quarter" are somewhat interchangeable in names, and no "bolt on" exists. hatches are cool and all, 'till they get smashed.

The damage lifted the paint and seam sealant. The damage is in and around complex bends, where multiple panels meet. My primary concern is corrosion prevention, specifically, to the back side of the panel(s), as they are in the wheel well and will get road splash. Other parts of the panel not exposed to the elements exist as a vent for the hybrid battery fan system, so temp change and condensation are a reality. Due to how the panels are put together, the inner panel(s) can not be reached without removing/cutting out the outer panel/fender. The shop I took the car to noted this independently of me mentioning my concerns. The insurances adjuster did not note it. It took me numerous attempts to try to get my adjuster to understand this. All I want is the factory corrosion prevention steps repaired. I have the honda FSM body shop supplement, its pretty straightforward on this.

I understand the body shop may be inflating things. I do not know how many man hours it takes to do this stuff. I do not know what appropriate labor rates are. But I do understand the insurance companies estimates are for a quick fix, and not a proper repair. (wrote to pull dent, fill, and paint. I know that would end up with a lot of filler due to complexity of dent and location, with no provision for corrosion prevention). My copies of the estimates are not digital, the insurance company is pretty good at not creating a paper trail, won't e-mail, won't leave voicemail. But thanks for the offer to look it over.

Unfortunately, this is where I start to get upset. It's not the body shop whispering sweet nothings into my ear (they are, and its obvious, and slimy), it is the insurance company's adjuster playing games with me, ignoring what I am telling them, lying to me. They are both trying to scam me over, but the body shop at least has the tools and knowledge to get the job done correctly. I have physically seen some of the work they have done. I have had plenty of vehicles which were repaired incorrectly. The insurance company I have had for 8 years now, never made a claim.

I would have no problem trying another shop. I'm actually central PA, I will have to call the local honda dealer, though they are small, I don't know if they have a bodyshop. I have no problem with used parts, but the parts cost between estimates are the same, and used will not exist for the damage here. Reading is far beyond 100 miles, but thanks for the suggestion.

I'm trying to dig up my full insurance contract, everything I have found is specific about reimbursements for injuries, or tells me to refer to a book which I do not have, I will have to contact my agent to try to get a full book. But this car should have full comprehensive and collision.

I have been working a lot and have not checked in, but it is quite likely the bodyshop has cut the quarter off. This means by the time I get free time I most likely won't be able to take the car to different shops realistically. Thank you for the realistic advice of arbitration, and lawyers not being interested due to no profit. Thats what I need to hear.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

I just want to add that it's nice for a change to read someone who actually takes the time to comprehend and consider the advice given on this topic. Most of the time these threads erupt into a display of stupidity. daytonaer is at least being reasonable and thoughtful, and for that I applaud him.

daytonaer said: But I do understand the insurance companies estimates are for a quick fix, and not a proper repair.

This is not really true. What DOES happen is certain companies will write cursory, lowball estimates because their clients (frequently low income, bad credit and poor driving record types) don't ever fix their cars and just take the money. Think SafeAuto, The General, Infinity and so on. They simply play the odds but if the car does wind up at a shop getting a proper repair covered typically isn't an issue.

The other problem with PA and some other states is the law actually states you cannot write an estimate for things that are not clearly visible. Event though I KNOW that steering knuckle is bent because the wheel was blasted I can't put it on the estimate until the alignment machine PROVES it is damaged because you simply can't tell by looking. Same deal with inner structure components. Supplemental estimates are probably needed 80% of the time these days for this reason and the way cars are put together (can't see squat). This may not be the case in this instance but it is something I deal with on a daily basis.

"Pay what we owe, but we should owe what we pay" is the mantra at every place I have worked. That is the appraiser's job.

Again, ddavid is exactly right. Insurance companies absolutely and undoubtedly do NOT write for just a quick fix to slap it together with bondo and spray it. You have to remember, the state Dept. of Insurance (DOI) has the authority to randomly audit any file of the insurance company they wish...and they do. Believe me when I tell you, insurance companies are 100 times more afraid of the DOI and penalties they can levy than any plaintiff lawyer on the planet. The fines and penalties can balance the federal budget... Like ddavid said, supplements are extraordinarily common. When an adjuster first sees a car, it's nearly impossible to see all of the damage unless it's a very minor hit. The shop needs to strip the car down to expose it all, then the adjuster comes back to revise (supplement) the original appraisal. That's when the body shop and adjuster get down to the nitty gritty of writing a proper appraisal to repair the car. No offense meant at all, I like the CR-Z, but from a structural standpoint there's nothing incredibly unusual or special about it. Corrosion protection is part of just about ever appraisal, especially when you have welding and cutting. It's also a very common spot where shops will try to squeeze extra...and undue...money from insurance. They'll ask for far more materials than they really use and far more time to do it. But that alone wouldn't explain the difference you're talking about.

Again, without knowing your insurance company (though we all suspect who), the shop or being able to see estimates/photos, it's impossible for us to give a more informed opinion. I doubt the insurance company is intentionally lying to you or trying to not create a paper trail. In fact, they're required to create one...whether in paper or electronic form. If you want to e-mail Sonic, ddavid or myself I'm sure any of us would be happy to help you. We also know the central PA area fairly well.

The part of your policy you're looking for is Physical Damage. You also want to look towards the back of the policy where it has Conditions listed. I don't have a policy in front of me, but most of them are written from the same base form. If you need, I'd be happy to look up the exact wording for you.

had you considered an independent adjuster appraisal for comparison?

A reasonable question from madmallard, but I'll tell you why that's probably a waste of $100 or so.

IA's are not well paid. They work for volume because they are paid by the claim. IA's almost always look for the easiest way to get their job done. If they can copy an estimate, they will. If they think a job is a time-waster (and they often will think that about something like this) they'll do just enough to make someone happy. They may like the shop, or they may hate the shop and want to stick it to them. Regardless, I think the OP runs about a 25% chance of getting a decent appraisal from an IA.

How do I know this? I was one for several years.

Thank you ladies and gents for the feedback.

ddavidv wrote: I just want to add that it's nice for a change to read someone who actually takes the time to comprehend and consider the advice given on this topic..

Well, arguing on the internet isn't going to fix anything, and honestly, I am simply seeking advice!

ddavidv wrote:

daytonaer said: But I do understand the insurance companies estimates are for a quick fix, and not a proper repair.

This is not really true. What DOES happen is certain companies will write cursory, lowball estimates because their clients (frequently low income, bad credit and poor driving record types) don't ever fix their cars and just take the money. Think SafeAuto, The General, Infinity and so on. They simply play the odds but if the car does wind up at a shop getting a proper repair covered typically isn't an issue. The other problem with PA and some other states is the law actually states you cannot write an estimate for things that are not clearly visible. Event though I KNOW that steering knuckle is bent because the wheel was blasted I can't put it on the estimate until the alignment machine PROVES it is damaged because you simply can't tell by looking. Same deal with inner structure components. Supplemental estimates are probably needed 80% of the time these days for this reason and the way cars are put together (can't see squat). This may not be the case in this instance but it is something I deal with on a daily basis. "Pay what we owe, but we should owe what we pay" is the mantra at every place I have worked. That is the appraiser's job.

The ins co's estimate lists 6hr repair to panel, and 4hr paint. That is the extent of the labor time listed. The rest is just paint/parts/mis costs. This feels to me an improper repair, which I have seen countless. I could very well be wrong! Maybe a pro could bang out a new panel with a hammer in 6 hours! I don't know. The problem being, I have seen many many quick improper repairs. I am not impressed by a shiny new coat of paint and straight panels if I know there is too much filler, maybe fiberglass, broken stuff hiding underneath. If this gets fixed, I will have the car for years, and I don't want to discover rot due to an improper fix.

The second part of your post is incredibly helpful. If the claims adjuster had simply explained this, I wouldn't be on the defensive. If it is true that PA law requires a multiple step supplemental estimate process and acknowledge there may be more damage, and they told me this, and told me they were going to work with me, I probably wouldn't be so upset. But the adjuster came out guns blazing and threw me in defensive mode from the beginning.

No benefit from writing up the nasties here, to elaborate slightly; I work with manipulative people every day, it is part of my job. I can read these things. The adjuster is being manipulative. The adjuster has flat out lied to me. I spoke with his manager about my concerns (re: the agent, not the claim!), she does not seem to be interested in helping me sort things out, she seems only interested in defending the actions of her employee. I flat out asked to be transferred to a different agent (after listening to countless people tell me they work in a team atmosphere, and ANYONE can help me, and there is NO need to ever contact a manager) explaining that we simply aren't a good match, and she told me no way. How does that benefit anyone... Now the body shop., you don't have to be a pro at reading people to see they are trying to squeeze extra $, but they don't cut corners on the actual prep/work etc.

Klayfish wrote: I like the CR-Z, but from a structural standpoint there's nothing incredibly unusual or special about it. Corrosion protection is part of just about ever appraisal, especially when you have welding and cutting.

I agree, it is nothing special! I am not emotionally attached to it, but it is an amazing appliance! Really, the issue is simply where the damage is, and the inaccessibility due to the design of the panel fitments where the damage is. The factory did a pretty impressive corrosion prevention setup, unfortunately the stretching from the bent metal lifted the paint. Prep and paint to the outside of the panel looks good, but the paint and sealer lifted from the metal on the back side of the panel too, but you can't access it to re-apply.

Klayfish wrote: The part of your policy you're looking for is Physical Damage. You also want to look towards the back of the policy where it has Conditions listed.

Thank you. I will get this Monday, then have a pow-wow with the body shop and try to see if they can get their estimate lower. Now that they have the outer panel off both parties can't create or deny what is or isn't there. If I have my ins contract with me when I go to the body shop, I can simply say; this is what they are required to do, you want to add stuff, they won't pay, and I won't pay, so lets get everyone on the same page.. The car was hit in April...