Are we ready for another Learn-Me thread? Septic systems and wells

Born and raised in Detroit (west side for those that care), then moved to the suburbs, then an hour north 16 years ago. I've never had a well, septic, sump pump, any of the trappings of what was 'rural life', or that's what accounted for rural life when I was a kid.   

I just had an offer on a house accepted in Florida yesterday. The house has a septic system and a well (but not a sump pump).  I'm flying down there Monday for the residential inspection, so I'm sure it'll be all good for us, but what do I as a home owner need to know/do/not do with a septic system and a well?  

I've heard that a properly function septic system is basically a living organism and, if 'done properly' will almost never need service. What is 'done properly' mean for me and my family? 

I'm assuming a well just needs to have the accumulator replaced every XX years and the pump replaced every XX years? And I'm sure it'll have to be used in conjunction with a filter. I'll be learning more about those specifics Monday. 

Any advice is appreciated. 

Generally a water quality check and septic system check are separate from a "regular" home inspection. Best ask now to have those done. If the house was empty for some time, the septic test can be spendy as they have to manually run things to check it. 

Wells can have all sorts of things that are common/uncommon depending on the locale. We don't have problems other then silt/clay that comes through when run hard. Simple filter takes care of it. Others need things to remove different sediment, smells, etc.

Neither have been really problematic for us after 10yrs.

I think you're misusing "sump pump". 

Sump pump is just a pump that moves ground water out of your basement. If you don't have a basement, you don't have a sump pump. If you don't have high groundwater, you don't either. I've had one in downtown Chicago, and in the suburbs.

Where in FL? Big state and areas are different as far as wells go.

I'm in SE FL and have septic system, a shallow well for the irrigation system, and city water for house.

One thing to be aware of with septic in FL is plant roots finding the tank or leaching field. You don't want certain plants like Ficus hedge anywhere in the area because they'll find it and plug it up. 

In my limited experience (two houses and a cottage), septic tanks get pumped out whenever you sell the house and that's about it :) Our current house got pumped for the first time since it was built in 1984 when we bought it last year. I don't think our cottage septic system has seen any attention at all since it was put in about 25 years ago. They seem pretty low-maintenance from my experience.

I do know that the house across the street from our last place went from 2000 square feet to 6000 and had a big extended family that moved in. Guess what wasn't expanded? The leach field was leaking down the street. Luckily in the other direction...

Some later tried to burn the garbage that had accumulated in the pool and accidentally lit the pool house on fire. Guess where the gas heater was? No more pool house. This seems like something that might happen in Florida.

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

Generally a water quality check and septic system check are separate from a "regular" home inspection. Best ask now to have those done. If the house was empty for some time, the septic test can be spendy as they have to manually run things to check it. 

Wells can have all sorts of things that are common/uncommon depending on the locale. We don't have problems other then silt/clay that comes through when run hard. Simple filter takes care of it. Others need things to remove different sediment, smells, etc.

Neither have been really problematic for us after 10yrs.

We had the well inspection done today, the septic is tomorrow, I'm flying down for the residential inspection on Monday. I'm wating for the results of the well inspection.
Our agent made sure we knew to have the three seperate inspections done, and that the well and septic needed to be done by inspectors specific to those items. Thanks for the heads up Paul.  

NOT A TA said:

Where in FL? Big state and areas are different as far as wells go.

I'm in SE FL and have septic system, a shallow well for the irrigation system, and city water for house.

One thing to be aware of with septic in FL is plant roots finding the tank or leaching field. You don't want certain plants like Ficus hedge anywhere in the area because they'll find it and plug it up. 

Port Charlotte.  Thanks for the tips on the roots. Good to know. 

In reply to mtn :

Yeah, I know sump pumps aren't necessarily a rural thing. When I was growing up I didn't know anyone that had one except relatives that fled the city and lived in rural areas. So my young mind associated sump pumps with country livin. Funny though, I live in what would be considered semi-rural, and folks around here are surprised I don't have a sump pump. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

That's what I'm hoping for!  Thanks. 

In reply to DrBoost :

For what it's worth, in 34 years at my old house, we changed 2 well pumps, one was bad out of the box. Repriming when a hose disconnects SUCKS, I imagine it would be harder somewhere without snow to melt, but isn't really a common problem. 

Our water was extremely irony, even with a good running salt tank and I can't think of the damn word. Water softener system that's it. What the house needs and your experiences with that will be entirely local, probably already setup. I wanna say we had to replace ours twice, to the tune of $5k each time, but we had a very deep well and it was not an easy area to work in.

Septic, I've been recommended to pump ever 3 years or so. Do yourself a favor, and if the tank doesn't have risers from the lid, but some and install. Digging up the lid to get them opened to get clean isn't fun and doesn't get any easier the older you get. Although your septic company may do it for you, mine wouldn't even wait 2 minutes for me to finish clearing off the second tank lid to drain it. 

DrBoost said:

NOT A TA said:

Where in FL? Big state and areas are different as far as wells go.

I'm in SE FL and have septic system, a shallow well for the irrigation system, and city water for house.

One thing to be aware of with septic in FL is plant roots finding the tank or leaching field. You don't want certain plants like Ficus hedge anywhere in the area because they'll find it and plug it up. 

Port Charlotte.  Thanks for the tips on the roots. Good to know. 

Roots not only cause problems with septic.  Can also cause big expensive problems if certain plants roots find the AC evaporator drain. Scroll down in this thread till you see a pic of an AC condenser. https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/70450-tree-vs-palm/

The well shouldn't be a big deal, so long as you don't have any crazy water quality issues requiring elaborate treatment systems. We usually buy salt for the water softener and change the sediment filter about once per year. 

Typical lifespan of a well pump is IIRC like 20-30 years. We got unlucky and had ours go out a few years ago. $3k to replace it, but that was an atypical situation due to the fact that a) the well head was buried b) we didn't know where it was located and had to do extentive digging to find it and c) when we eventually did, it was under a concrete slab that the dip E36 M3 PO poured on top of it. Typical cost I think is less than half of that. 

I'm going to have to disagree with the notion that septic tanks are essentially maintenance free. They do need to be pumped every so often, and the frequency depends on the size of the holding tank and amount of usage the system sees. 3-5 years is what was recommended to us since our system is old and the tank very small by modern standards, even though it sees pretty light use with just me and SWMBO occupying the house. Had it pumped for the first time last year (4 years after we moved in) and it needed to be done, apparently. My parent's rental place has a similar size system and my best friend and his wife were the last occupants. They managed to overflow the system in <2 years because she was doing 3 loads of laundry per day (and we've always known he was full of E36 M3 .) YMMV.

Last but not least, make sure no one in the house is flushing feminine hygiene products down the toilet!

If no one told you, the only think that should go in your septic system is water,  poo and toilet paper. 
 

Forget about grinding up vegetable scraps or whatever in the garage disposal. Better to not even have a disposal if your can't follow that rule. No bleach. 

Check to see if you are in a BMAP area which require advanced wastewater treatment to protect the aquifer and waterways, if your septic fails the inspection. If it is more than about 15 years old and if you have kids or a big family you should expect to replace it at some point.

I don't always talk septic but I was the Septic Expert for 15 years.

Around here they recommend pumping the septic tanks out once every 3 years. I was shocked at the amount of grease from the kitchen sink that had accumulated in just that time at our last house. I divorced the kitchen drain from the rest of the system and just let it run off in the woods here at the cabin.

Not getting it pumped every few years is asking for a plugged leach field which means digging up the thing and replacing. 

Funny, just today I saw my neighbors having their yard dug up. They found out the hard way their system was designed for a 3 bedroom single family home, not the finished basement apartment 5 bedroom multi family it got built into... New system time.

In reply to Apexcarver :

^ Yep.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6mFiOhB9KZ8 (it is relevant)

My parents only use the cheap Scott's toilet paper with their septic tank. They've never had issues with it, knock on wood, though it is unused for quite a bit of the year. 

I grew up in a house that has both septic and a well and my parents still live there.  My house in Pittsburgh had a well and municipal sewer.  Odd combination, but we were in this weird in-between area where our rural town limits crossed township borders.  The township added sewer, but the city didn't add water.

Septic (in the house I grew up in) has been mostly a non-issue.  There were two times that it backed up, but that was due to a flaw in the pipe leading to the septic, not the septic tank itself.  They had it pumped every 10-15 years when my sister and I lived at home, mostly because we live in shale bedrock which notoriously drains terribly.  If you get a wee bit ahead of how quickly it seeps out it can get full.  Dad got pretty good at predicting it because the basement bathroom toilet would bubble when someone took a shower or ran the dishwasher.

That house was built in the 60s and the tank is just off the one corner of the house.  The top of the tank was about 5' underground, so every time he had to get out the backhoe.  About 20 years ago he ordered a 5' concrete tube and set it on top of the tank and backfilled around it, so we now have a manhole cover in the flowerbed.  He just covers it with some mulch and brooms it off if we need access.  Having access to the tank is a major time-saver.

Mom and Dad do nothing for maintenance.  They poop and flush.  That's it.  If you want to help, there are packets of powdered "starter" cultures of septic bacteria that you can flush down periodically, but otherwise you'll probably not need anything special.  Mom runs bleach loads in the laundry weekly, they use bleach products to clean the toilets and sinks, and no worries.  Really, for them, it's as transparent as a public sewer with the exception of calling to have it pumped every couple decades.  In fact, I don't think they have pumped it since about 2000 now that it's just them in the house.

The same basic thing can be said for the well (minus the sewage part, hopefully.)  Mom and Dad's well is 250-ish feet deep and has never failed to provide water despite some serious droughts.  Wells in FL tend to be significantly shallower.  You will likely find that the water has a very distinct sulfur/brackish taste because Florida, so you may want to consider some kind of filtration.  There is no maintenance to do really.  After X years you'll notice that you have no water pressure and maybe the breaker is tripped.  At that point you disconnect the water line and start lifting the riser pipe to replace the pump.  Not a big deal.

Overall, I would say that the maintenance impact of both systems is only very modestly different from sewer and city water.  They both have failures, but I have found that the money you save by not paying monthly bills for those two utilities is way more money in your pocket even if you had to pump the septic every 5 years and replace the well pump every 10 years.

I agree with the comments that a septic system is not meant to be ignored. Pumped every 3-5 years, no nearby trees or plants to avoid roots in the system, and never put food scraps or grease into the system. Flushable wipes are NOT flushable. Same goes for absolutely anything other than toilet paper. 
 

Issues specific to SW Florida (or anywhere in the state eventually) include the possibility of needing to pay for a sewer hookup when that becomes a requirement. Septic systems are an issue here and many will have to be phased out over time.  
 

Due to the use of septic systems, overuse of fertilizer particularly on residential yards, farming practices, and various other causes, Florida waterways are heavily overloaded with nutrients. This has resulted in severe toxic algae overgrowth in the waterways, and I think the Port Charlotte area is one of the most severely affected. 
 

As for wells, I've always made municipal water a non-negotiable requirement for my homes here. If you're going to be on well water, find out what was there before the house was built.
 

 I'm lucky that I've had that policy, as one house I ruled out in a neighborhood here in Volusia county was next to a golf course. It turned out that there were multiple children with cancer in the neighborhood, as well as people in their 30s and 40s dying of Parkinson's. They never did identify the toxins.
 

Be sure that the land where your prospective home is located has never been used for a golf course or fern farm in particular. There's been an amazing amount of toxins dumped into the environment here in Florida, and not all of them are detectable in standard water testing. Water testing here usually will just be to rule out water borne pathogens such as fecal coliform bacteria.
 

They are probably not going to test for or even be able to detect some of the heavy metals, neurotoxins and carcinogens that were used heavily in certain areas. Make any previous military use of the area also a no-go. The WWII and Cold War era military bases dumped everything into the ground, plus there are neighborhoods here in Florida that have been built on live fire ranges.

I apologize for the overall tenor of this post, but I've lived here since the first Eisenhower administration. It's better that you have a chance to consider these things now. 

In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :

This is what BMAP is meant to address. There are large areas of Florida getting a new set of wastewater regulations to clean up waterways. I think there are also grants available if you need to upgrade. (Basin management area plan?)

I hung out in Port Charlotte back in '63.  My father wrote the first building regs after Hurricane Donna came through and basically wiped out the few homes that were in Port Charlotte at the time.  The developer was scared that would scare away Yankee buyers, so they started trying to implement basic codes for the first time...

A lot depends on the year your home was built as to which codes were in place at that time.  Today there are strict rules about the distance that wells need to be from drain fields.   Years ago... not so much.

You could just have a shallow well that is maybe only 30 feet deep or so and the pump will be above ground.    Or it could be a deep well that is 100' to 300' depending on region.   Shallow wells are pumping ground water (usually for irrigation).  Deep wells are going down to the aquifier (better water).  Shallow wells may be only a 3/4" or 1" pipe.   Deep wells require a submerged pump and will usually be in a 3" or 4" pipe.

You mention "sump pump".   But, many Florida homes (without basements) have grinder pumps that actually pump the sewage coming out of the home up hill to the septic tank and drainfield.   In some cases those septic tanks and drain fields are built up on raised ground to get about the ground water level.

Usually a septic system designed properly for usage should only require pumping the tank every 5 years.   YMMV    I have known folks to go 20 years...

Lots to know in Florida.... and most realtors don't.

Congrats on your FL move and welcome to septic tank ownership. I'm just North of you in Pinellas County (Dunedin) and have had both a shallow well (irrigation only) and a septic tank at my house since I bought it in 2000. My house was originally built in 1965 the tank and drain field were designed/built using the technology of the time, concrete tank with a pipe in rock-filled drain line field. In this area if your drain field required replacing a raised dome was required due to the ground water level and percolation required. Many homes in my neighborhood had to have a large 1-1.5' high dome added to their backyard when their field was replaced. With any raised field a lift pump had to be added to the system.

Questions to get answered by your inspector. How old is the tank and drain field? If the house has had any additions (bedrooms), were the tank and field adjusted properly? A neighbor just sold his house and the buyer stipulated that a requirement for purchase be a new tank and field as it was original to the home. Depending on size/style a new tank/field could run you $8k and up.

Find out if there are any plans for a sewer system to be added (as also mentioned above). We are slated to get a system installed within the next 2 years which will then annex us to the City (more taxes, different codes, etc.) if we choose to join. There will be County funds to help offset the connection fees to the sewer system under state grants.

FWIW, back in 2014 after a few years of very slow drainage issues, I redid my drain field with the help of two friends over a weekend. Rented a mini-excavator and a bobcat and tore my backyard to shreds. I went with the infiltrator system and used a lot of advice from THIS site and used their fabric mat around the sides and top of my field. I also went extra deep on my gravel and added a field vent. I also added risers to my tank for easy access and an exit filter to my tank from the advice of my septic tank pumper. It ensures that primarily fluids are making it the drain field.

Also, as mentioned above, the only things that should go into your tank are water, human waste and single-ply or septic safe TP. I do have a garbage disposal but severely limit what. goes down it. Most vegetable matter is separated and trashed or composted. If your clothes washer goes into your drain field, consider rerouting it to a separate leach field, or at the least add an exhaust lint filter. Lint will clog a drain with a mat that significantly inhibits drainage. You'll see after you clean the filter once. Finally, keep the biome in your tank healthy. Limit chemicals and grease and if possible and routinely use something like RidX to keep the enzymes healthy. A great rule of thumb is to add a treatment on your way out the door before a trip. It allows the bacteria to work while you're gone without soap continually being added.

After dealing with septic tanks and wells on the coast most of my life, including the installation of both, they really aren't that big of a deal. A properly installed system is pretty trouble-free. The family farm has 7 septic tanks and 9 wells. Total maintenance in the last 25 years consists of adding a filter to the house well to make my mother happy, replacing the top on the house septic tank after my father parked the backhoe in it, and pumping the kitchen tank every 10 years or so. The money saved from not having monthly payments more than makes up for the minimal maintenance the systems will require.

I've never seen a septic system need to be pumped more than once every 10+ years. Some of the tanks on the farm have been in service for well over 50 years. If they are needing maintenance more often than every 10-15 years, the system is engineered wrong, installed wrong, or the house was expanded beyond the system's capabilities. The best thing you can do is use them. A healthy dump keeps the microbes alive and active. They are what liquefies the solids and keeps the system flowing properly. No bleach is a little extreme, but you don't want to be excessive with the use of chemicals. They can kill off the loaf in the tank and cause issues like stopped up leach fields and tanks that need to be pumped. 

Trees in the leach field aren't usually an issue. In wet ground, they are a benefit as they draw water off the system and keep the ground from getting soggy. We have pecan trees and grapes planted in the leach field of the farmhouse to help use some of the water off the system. They grow extremely well there. Trees do become a problem if they are too close to the tank. They will grow roots into and all through the tank. That can require more frequent maintenance to remove the root mat from the tanks. 

Wells are pretty maintenance free as also. The wells on the farm range from a 120-year-old, hand-dug 15' open well that serves the house and shop; to a 100' deep 6" cased well that provides irrigation water to the yard. The best water comes out of the open well, the worst water comes from the 100' well. Salt intrusion can be a problem on the coast with deep wells depending on the aquifer being pumped. Our 100' well has that problem. There are 6 other wells that range from 25' to 90'. Maintenance for them consists of basic plumbing repairs. The pumps are very durable. To my knowledge, the water quality has never been tested. 

A couple of things to consider about living on a well, if you lose power you also lose water so a backup generator is a good thing to have. If the well loses its prime, you also don't have water to prime it. With one well, I'd consider keeping a 5-gallon jug of water for that just in case. CLR does wonders with rust and lime stains. 

You mentioned in your other thread that the house is pretty new. In some places like here in VA it's common in newer houses on smaller lots to use an 'alternative' system which is more complex than the old concrete tank + big-pipe drain field. Alternative systems need regular maintenance and are hugely expensive if ignored - mine is basically a Mercedes buried in the yard.

Sandy Florida soil probably perks just fine and this isn't your case, but important to check. 

@Toyman, thanks for the washer lint filter recommendation. I just pulled a plug out of the shower drain that's downhill from the washer, the usual hair and soap I was expecting were just the framework on which the lint had backed up for a few inches. It can't be good for the various filters in the aforementioned buried Mercedes...