madmallard wrote: I'm wondering, if anyone on either sides are actually aware of what it takes to be in this country legally. Or if they're aware of how many different status levels there are. And from there, how many different ways you can be here legally.
Valid questions, but they ignore the more relevant question - "How many ways are there to be here illegally?"
First, I don't live in Arizona, but I do agree that they needed to do something. i think everyone here agrees to that. So what is the answer? Having to have some form of ID is not profiling. Asking for an ID when appropriate happens to us everyday, all of us; be it at a traffic stop, buying beer, hopefully to vote, etc. So what's wrong with asking immigrants to carry ID just like the rest of the United States. If they didn't get here legally, then they need to face the crime they committed. It would happen to you and I in any other country but this one. Go traveling and tell me if you don't think that is true?
Anyway, my personal illegal alien story. I was hit from behind about a year ago by an illegal alien. No ID, no insurance, couldn't speak english, and his van had no brakes. He used my Miata to stop. My insurance covered my car, but he had no jail time, didn't have to pay a dime on my car, was not deported, and got treated at the hospital for free. So lets see, who is he hurting here? The hospital is out money for treating him, the police for the time to write him up but immigration never bothered to even answer, my insurance company for paying for my car, and my employer for my time lost dealing with the situation.
A family friend is on the board of directors for a local hospital, and according to them, they are losing millions a year because of treating illegals in the emergency room. Who is paying for this? Another hospital in the area is actually closing it's doors due to illegal alien treatment. They are losing money every month due to the heavy load. They are not even allowed to question or turn them in.
People, you need to wake up and deal with this problem no matter what your "feel good" teachers taught you in school. It's not fun, there is no good answer, and someone is going to be pissed. But this is a HUGE problem that the longer it goes on, the larger it will become.
You can't run down and deport 12 million people, but you can make them responsible for their actions.
I'm not advocating pulling over people for 'driving while Hispanic/black/Asian' either.
My point: it's impossible to say 'a guy robbed a store, watch out for him'. At some point, a description must be given which will generally include: approximate height, approximate weight, RACE, sex, hair and eye color, etc. It's how we describe each other.
So if a cop has a report that a Hispanic male is driving such and such a car and there is good reason to believe that he is smuggling people in the trunk of that car, then it's no different than had I been pulled over for being a very close match to the composite picture I mentioned. That's NOT profiling. Of course there are those who will claim that it is.
Let me toss this out: if an Arizona cop makes a traffic stop, asks for proof of citizenship or being in this country legally and finds, say, a German citizen who has overstayed his or her visa or has entered this country illegally, will that be called profiling as well? Or is it OK to do that since he's most likely Caucasian?
The problem of illegals is NOT going away by itself. The taxpayers of this country CANNOT continue to support illegals. Something has to be done and I agree that the state of Arizona has a perfect right TO ENFORCE EXISTING FEDERAL LAW.
Jensenman wrote: Something has to be done and I agree that the state of Arizona has a perfect right TO ENFORCE EXISTING FEDERAL LAW.
Hmmm, something that opponents seem to ingore.
Hmmm...........
Jensenman wrote: I'm not advocating pulling over people for 'driving while Hispanic/black/Asian' either.
I am, but only if they are totally hot.
Yeah. Pulling over hot Asian girls... 
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:Jensenman wrote: I'm not advocating pulling over people for 'driving while Hispanic/black/Asian' either.I am, but only if they are totally hot.
Well said, sir:
Datsun1500 wrote: Pro Illegal alien demonstrators? Really?
Probably not, Bill O'Reilly probably turned "immigrant right supporters" or something like that into "pro-illegal alien demonstrators."
I see part of a booby you aren't supposed to see!
Joey
If you are in Arizona and don't like the law, either move or get the people who signed it into law voted out and get the law changed. If you don't live in Arizona it isn't any of your business so STFU. That is kind of the whole point of having states. This law is what the people in Arizona wanted. It's remarkable that they actually have politicians that do what they are told.
Toyman01 wrote: If you are in Arizona and don't like the law, either move or get the people who signed it into law voted out and get the law changed. If you don't live in Arizona it isn't any of your business so STFU. That is kind of the whole point of having states. This law is what the people in Arizona wanted. It's remarkable that they actually have politicians that do what they are told.
so the south gets its separate but equal schools back then?
oldsaw wrote:Jensenman wrote: Something has to be done and I agree that the state of Arizona has a perfect right TO ENFORCE EXISTING FEDERAL LAW.Hmmm, something that opponents seem to ingore. Hmmm...........
If Arizona wanted to enforce its laws it would move its predator drones from the border and station them above the wall-marts and home depots that have day laborers waiting for work outside of them. They would then throw anyone who hired one in jail. They would do the same thing with their farms and construction sites as well.
Once no one was willing to hire immigrant laborers, because Arizona was actually enforcing its laws, all the illegal laborers would self deport. PROBLEM SOLVED. No new legislation even needed.
They wont do that though because they are cowards. Doing something effective would actualy involve arresting white people. They will just pass laws that make it possible to stop anyone at any time who is the right shade of brown with the thinnest excuse for a cause.
Did someone say "booby"?
what were we discussing again???
Actually, I think Glenn is onto something there, I had a similar thought. I figure everypone has to eat right? why not just make EVERYONE provide proof of citizenship whenever you buy food? everyplace from the grocery to the BK... their problem would be largely over in a week or so... no id , no food, period. But id bet allot more people would be seeing things a bit differently if that happened ... 
On a serious note, imposing harsh punishments for hiring illegal immigrants sounds like a good solution. No racial profiling needed and a helluva lot cheaper and easier than turning the US/Mexico border into camera-covered fence-separated truck-patrolled UAV-monitored Great Wall 2.0.
The concept of harsh punishment for employers is certainly ONE of the answers to reducing illegal immigration.
However, if employers are to be apprehended and prosecuted, wouldn't law enforcement have to determine the status of employees so they can bring charges against the employer?
Once a worker's illegal status is confirmed, will said illegal be released, or processed for deportation (as dictated by current law)?
How do you have one without the other and still have a comprehensive immigration policy?
GameboyRMH wrote: On a serious note, imposing harsh punishments for hiring illegal immigrants sounds like a good solution. No racial profiling needed and a helluva lot cheaper and easier than turning the US/Mexico border into camera-covered fence-separated truck-patrolled UAV-monitored Great Wall 2.0.
Get back to us about border protection after a terror attack occurs in Bridgetown - one perpetrated by tourists who were "just visiting".............
Actually, when i was "profiled," it wasn't in Florida, it was in Illinois. Ive never had an issue with the local police and in fact im acquainted with a few.
Illinois, Port st. lousy, whatever. You obviously understood my point. It wasn't some sort of Illinois legislation that made the officers "profile" you, it was the fact that the cops were dicks. This law is not being put in place to allow cops to pull people over for being brown. I don't get why this is so berkeleying hard for people to understand.
GlennS wrote:oldsaw wrote:If Arizona wanted to enforce its laws it would move its predator drones from the border and station them above the wall-marts and home depots that have day laborers waiting for work outside of them. They would then throw anyone who hired one in jail. They would do the same thing with their farms and construction sites as well. Once no one was willing to hire immigrant laborers, because Arizona was actually enforcing its laws, all the illegal laborers would self deport. PROBLEM SOLVED. No new legislation even needed. They wont do that though because they are cowards. Doing something effective would actualy involve arresting white people. They will just pass laws that make it possible to stop anyone at any time who is the right shade of brown with the thinnest excuse for a cause.Jensenman wrote: Something has to be done and I agree that the state of Arizona has a perfect right TO ENFORCE EXISTING FEDERAL LAW.Hmmm, something that opponents seem to ingore. Hmmm...........
Jeez, wouldn't the cops checking the Wal Marts and Home Depots have to ask the day laborers for proof of legal residence in order to build a case against the honkies hiring the illegal ones?
I'm just askin'.
oldsaw wrote:GameboyRMH wrote: On a serious note, imposing harsh punishments for hiring illegal immigrants sounds like a good solution. No racial profiling needed and a helluva lot cheaper and easier than turning the US/Mexico border into camera-covered fence-separated truck-patrolled UAV-monitored Great Wall 2.0.Get back to us about border protection after a terror attack occurs in Bridgetown - one perpetrated by tourists who were "just visiting".............
You could have a lake of fire running across the border and it wouldn't do a thing to make the US safer from terrorists. In terms of preventing terrorist attacks, all the doodads on the US south border are a bunch of security theatre. Terrorists can enter the country legally or be born-and-raised Americans, why would they need to do an illegal border crossing (into a state as far as possible from most valuable targets of those on the mainland)?
GameboyRMH wrote:oldsaw wrote:You could have a lake of fire running across the border and it wouldn't do a thing to make the US safer from terrorists. In terms of preventing terrorist attacks, all the doodads on the US south border are a bunch of security theatre. Terrorists can enter the country legally or be born-and-raised Americans, why would they need to do an illegal border crossing (into a state as far as possible from most valuable targets of those on the mainland)?GameboyRMH wrote: On a serious note, imposing harsh punishments for hiring illegal immigrants sounds like a good solution. No racial profiling needed and a helluva lot cheaper and easier than turning the US/Mexico border into camera-covered fence-separated truck-patrolled UAV-monitored Great Wall 2.0.Get back to us about border protection after a terror attack occurs in Bridgetown - one perpetrated by tourists who were "just visiting".............
So, I guess you allow complete strangers into your home, leave the doors unlocked and windows open at night, too? Having an family member, friend, neighbor or acquaintance go "radical" are completely different circumstances and require a lot circumspection from both authorities and citizens.
Not that your opinions have no intrinsic value, but why are you so adamant that your positions have as much or more validity than those who actually bear the cost and consequence of a failing US immigration policy?
Just asking............
Is it common for illegals to have a drivers license? If so, is simply having a license proof enough of citizenship?
In reply to oldsaw:
of course, if people want in, they're going to get in, so we might as well leave the doors unlocked, right?
Otto_Maddox wrote: Is it common for illegals to have a drivers license? If so, is simply having a license proof enough of citizenship?
i mentioned this a few pages back, but i had to show my social security card and/or birth certificate in order to get my learner's permit. then after i already had my permit, i didnt have to show it again, but it DOES have to be shown at some point to prove that you are actually a US resident.
In reply to Strizzo:
Well, do the cops have to take a license or even a social security card at face value or can they hold the person until they can figure it out for sure?
I don't really know how to prove I am a citizen if my drivers license isn't good enough. I guess I have a passport somewhere, but I have no idea where my birth certificate or social security card are hiding. I surely don't keep stuff like that on me for examination at a moment's notice.
Otto_Maddox wrote: In reply to Strizzo: Well, do the cops have to take a license or even a social security card at face value ...?
i would bet not any more than the guy that works the door at a bar does. obviously running an ID through the system will tell the officer all he needs to know about the validity of the ID.
Fox had an arizona police officer talking about how he figures out if a person is in the country legally or not, he said a lot of the time they will give a mexican drivers license or a mexican voters card when they get pulled over. he then asks if they have a US issued ID, if they don't he then calls ICE to come and investigate further. thats basically all the Arizona law tells officers to do.
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