As if record gas prices weren't enough

I'll just leave this here

In Hana on the island of Maui, a gallon of regular costs $6.03,

triumph5 wrote: Do the Amish pay a road tax???? Seriously, they do USE the roads. Should they not be taxed like a commercial trailer, and the horse like a car: so many hands high equals so much tax paid/year. I mean really.

Indiana requires Amish buggies to have license plates.

Datsun1500 wrote:

JoeyM wrote: I'll just leave this here In Hana on the island of Maui, a gallon of regular costs $6.03,

I was there 2 weeks ago and yes it was $6 a gallon. Downtown Maui was almost $5 a gallon. It cost more to gas up the car than to rent the car...

And the cost of living is higher and so are the salaries.

^yeah, but when you compare to the cost of living in the middle of the country, the increased salary doesn't ever seem to make up the difference.

Unless you're willing to forego house and yard for condo, etc etc. And to me that isn't equivalent.

I believe one of the other job perks is that you're living in Maui, Hawaii, and not Snow, Rustbelt.

MitchellC wrote: I believe one of the other job perks is that you're living in Maui, Hawaii, and not Snow, Rustbelt.

Quoted for truth. I'm pretty sure I'd rather pay $6/gal in Hawaii than $4.20/gal in Cleveland!

JoeyM wrote: I'll just leave this here In Hana on the island of Maui, a gallon of regular costs $6.03,

and to drive literally across the island it's 70 miles...

but they also have 3 airports on that island... so I doubt you're going to be driving that far that often ;-)

I refuse to get into the politics here, but I'm always puzzled when I hear comments about people choosing between gas and food, it never rings true to me. I came from a continent where gas has always been more expensive than here, wages lower and taxes, both direct (on your pay check) and indirect (on the goods), have been higher. But people over there weren’t dying of hunger due to gas/petrol prices.

Figures.

I moved here in 1994. At that time the price of a UK gallon of unleaded was ₤2.35 (source, my memory corrected by http://www.theaa.com/public_affairs/reports/Petrol_Prices_1896_todate_gallons.pdf Adjusting for inflation that's ₤3.00 in 2011 money (source http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/historic-inflation-calculator ). Now convert to US gallons that is ₤2.50. Finally we convert to USD, that's the tricky part as I'm not sure what to use for the conversion as it changes over time. I'll use ₤1.00 = $1.60 as that's a round number that it's always hovered around. So we find that comes out to $4.00 In other words gas was as expensive in the UK back in 1994 as it is here in the US now. No one was starving and choosing between gas and food.

Also, forgetting the direct tax on wages, the Median UK household income in the UK is $25,168 (that's already in USD) Vs $31,111 here. Those figures are from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income I'm not sure what the relative difference was in 1994, but personal observation and talking to friends and comparing salaries with them indicates to me that the gap has closed considerably in that time. Even if it hasn't, the US appears to earn at least 20% more than the UK.

Even within America I can't see gas prices as historically that far out of step. From here http://www.randomuseless.info/gasprice/gasprice.html you can see once you include the CPI gas was at a broadly similar price in the early 80's to where we are now. Yes it's now higher than then, but it's within 10-15% or so. Not the OMG it's gone up 3-4-5 times scare mongering.

Back to the UK for a min. Regular unleaded is currently approx. ₤1.36 per liter, that's ₤5.15 per US gallon, or $8.24. So today the UK is paying twice in real terms what we do, while earning 20% less. I haven't heard the BBC reporting mass deaths from starvation as people fill their tanks over there.

Yes, I know it's not a fair comparison as people have historically driven more fuel efficient cars in Europe and places are closer together, but despite that I'm convinced that the average petrol/gas bill is a higher % of household income over there than over here.

It sucks right now for many people, but I don't see it as the end of the world. Also I haven't checked oil prices today, but yesterday they dropped 10% to around $98 per barrel, so there's hope gas will start to fall back.

Hey, I've just realized something after that last post. I just proved that gas is the same price here now as it was in 94 in the UK, so gas hasn't changed for me in 17 years Add to that that I now earn much more than I did in the UK and gas is now nearly 80% cheaper than it was!! Cool, how the hell did I afford to eat back then

Now add in wife, mortgage, kids, school fees, retirement etc and it's probably the same % as it was of the remaining money. Rats

You are 100% correct.

I've been saying this since it it spiked a number of years ago. Gas costs more than it used to, but so does everything else.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

Meet up with me and I'll introduce you to so some of those people. When I made that post, I had those people on my mind who are decent, hard working people just trying to get by. Many are single women/mothers whose husbands ran off. It was more a rant I guess while trying to stick up for the little guy. And not to get into politics, but here in the U.S.A., the effects of gas prices is based on who holds the position of President. Currently, it is good for us to have high prices...if you get where I'm going. But that wasn't the reason for the post.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Yes, I know it's not a fair comparison as people have historically driven more fuel efficient cars in Europe and places are closer together, but despite that I'm convinced that the average petrol/gas bill is a higher % of household income over there than over here.

I'd be curious to see the European numbers.

There was a story today that talks about the avg American now spends 10% of their income on gasoline.

That is not insignificant.

I think I'm closer to 6.0%.

EDIT: Looks like it's 9%

http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/05/news/economy/gas_prices_income_spending/index.htm?section=money_topstories

Record gas prices? Gas was over $4 in 2008. Average hasn't hit that yet, and with oil tanking, probably won't any time soon. Not a lot of inflation since '08, but some. $4 then would be at least $4.05 or something.

In reply to Fletch1:

Last time gas was $4/gal was when the other guy was in office. Seems as if the gas price effect happens either way.

As for sticking up for the little guy- I'm with you on the idea, but I wonder if gas reall takes food off the table. We keep hearing of a lot of things taking food off of the table, especially via the internet (not free) or TV (not free, either).

Cable, tv, phone is expensive ~ 25 gal of gas /month. Power is expenvive- from $20gal to 60 gal of gas/month. Rent is really expensive- 100-200gal of gas/month.

that at $4/gal.

As for annual cost. lets play with some numbers.

On average, drivers to 15k/year. And lets be very average, and call it 20mpg, so that mixes city-highway in a bigger car. That's 750gal of gas. Or $3,400. Which would be just over 10% of the median.

Up that to 30mpg, and it's 500gal, and $2000. Or lower driving to 10k, and it's $2000. Or both, and ~$1350.

Basically, it does not take a lot to go from 10% to under that. $1350 would be about 4% of the US median income. There are options and ways around expensive items. Drop all but a pay/min cell phone, and you get to travel a lot.

^I'm not sure I could cut 35% of my driving, overnight, just because. I already don't have cable TV, but I do have Internet.

Let's face it, most (not all, before I get lambasted for that) of us aren't really in tune with what it's like to struggle like that.

I mean, here we are sitting on computers (most likely in our Air conditioned office at work), which we will leave and drive our car home, etc etc etc.

Granted if the price of gas was $10/gal, the only thing that would really change for me is that we might go out to eat 2 times on the weekend instead of 3 times.

I'm not trying to start the tired old "They should have been more responsible than to get in this situation" either.

I'm not saying gas isn't exspensive, I'm not saying I hope it doesn't come down, I'm not saying I don't feel for people who are hurting. I was simply putting some facts on the table to show a) we've got it good here compared to the rest of the world and b) These prices are not unprecidented in our history.

In reply to fast_eddie_72:

Gas has been $4.19 for regular for a week here in Ohio, a record high.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

If high U.K. gas prices are heading here, why can't all the cool cars come too?! Come on now guys, isn't that something we can all agree to?

Fletch1 wrote: In reply to fast_eddie_72: Gas has been $4.19 for regular for a week here in Ohio, a record high.

Okay, you win.

Fletch1 wrote: In reply to fast_eddie_72: Gas has been $4.19 for regular for a week here in Ohio, a record high.

$4.29/GALLON here in central IN. It dropped overnight. After a week 4.29, it dropped to a cheap 4.21/gal

Last night, I had a brief conversation with the operator/owner of a local Shell station/convenience store.

He was lamenting the big drop in the per barrel oil prices the same day he got his weekly tanker-load of gas. The station sells about 5K gallons of regular each week and another 1.5K of premium. He has to buy a full tanker to cover the cost of his delivery fees. Higher-volume and corporate stores don't have the overhead he sees and get more frequent deliveries.

Now, he's having to keep his prices high when the competition will lower costs more quickly; he'll lose business. He's not so concerned about the lower pump prices of the other guys, he's looking a less foot traffic in his store and fewer over the counter sales.

Pump price for regular was $3.89 so it looks like he's anticipating a pretty big drop at the high-volume retailers. Maybe, maybe not; the travel season always drives prices up and the switch from winter to summer blends adds to the price, too.

I've bought about $350.00 in gas this week alone. It isn't taking food off the table, and never will, but it does put a dent in the cash flow.

There was a BP station at $4.42 here yesterday but all of them went to $4.19 by this morning as well.

I just wish they would quit setting the cutoff at $75. A 22 gallon tank and gas north of $4 a gallon means I never quite get a full tank of gas. (or drop gas back down to $2 a gallon of course)

You'll have to pry my company fuel card out of my cold, dead fingers.