Most sci-fi universes would not be good worlds to live in...and Mumbai is already catching up to Bay City's layout:
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/29/world/asia/29mumbai.html
Methuselahs may not happen anytime soon, but not due to any lack of trying:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/04/03/silicon-valleys-quest-to-live-forever
Just finished Book 1 and all things considered I think the producers did a hell of a job turning words to images. I have to wonder why in the show they added the teaser dialog from James' girlfriend just before the torpedo hit, though...
Amazon must really like The Expanse--apparently they've committed to Season 5 before they've even aired Season 4!
Season 4 dropped today.
Lots of plot giveaways in the opening if you're familiar with the story.
I also like the (finally) unfiltered Avasarala.
I need to watch the new season. I liked the others quite a bit.
I watched the other seasons and read the first couple books because of this thread. Terrific series.
I think I am still in season 2, but no hurry, it’s not like 5 is coming out soon. I hear Bezos upped it because he wanted to see how it ends!
Lots of good story so far in an interesting setting. They seem to only deal with some the realities of gravity and acceleration at certain points, but I can look past it. E.g. the gravity on Ceres is 2% of Earth. There is no way you are walking around in that, it mostly just a slight pull around 6 inches per second per second.
Neat stuff in general though. Love the scary use of ballistic weapons (guns). The ship combat is very similar to modern naval warfare, you REALLY don’t want to get hit at all. They also seem to have a good representation of orbital mechanics (it’s all about differential velocity) although they don’t bother to explain it much (so far)
Much better than that “let’s fly around in space like airplanes” crap you see in most light SciFi (looking at you StarWars).
I have a suggestion for Amazon: when someone is watching the second season a a series, how about you don’t show previews for the FOURTH SEASON!!!
I don’t think I saw anything significant, but still irritating.
aircooled said:Lots of good story so far in an interesting setting. They seem to only deal with some the realities of gravity and acceleration at certain points, but I can look past it. E.g. the gravity on Ceres is 2% of Earth. There is no way you are walking around in that, it mostly just a slight pull around 6 inches per second per second.
In the Expanse universe, Ceres, Eros, and the other asteroid stations have been hollowed out and spun up to provide centrifugal gravity -- that's why people are walking around. This probably isn't actually possible (would require WAY too much energy, and current research suggests that asteroids aren't strong enough to hold together in this way), but hey it's science fiction.
In reply to aircooled :
Actually, according to the books Ceres/Eros/Tycho are all at .3g and they go into the idea that there were a lot of money/time/effort to get them to that point... my folks got me the first 2 books in the series. I am almost done with them.
I hadn't realized 4 was out already- it's the last of the books that I've read, so I'm looking forward to seeing how some things are translated onto the screen (especially the Rosi's big mod...).
I've read the entire series and have been binging the show with my wife over the past week. She's hooked and I'm trying to convince her to read the books. I'm torn on the show a bit. It's really well done, but the combining of plots and characters is throwing me off a bit. My wife asked just last night "what happens next" and I had to confess I'm not sure because I don't know how much they will follow the book upcoming. I'll admit, though, I can't remember all the different plot lines of the books, so I'm a bit fuzzy on them.
The only show character that meets what I had in my mind is Alex and Avasarala is close. Jim, Naomi and Amos are nothing like I pictured in my mind (100% me, not the show). And the character development is odd. We're halfway through season 3 and my wife does NOT like Naomi and I don't recall feeling that way in the book.
Regardless, if you're a fan of the show, you should absolutely read the book series. If you're a fan of the book series, the show is excellent.
Now, to a plot hole that I can't get over in the books. I'm OK with the Epstein drive. I struggle with the acceleration part. I'll admit I'm NOT a astrophysicist, so perhaps it's lack of my understanding. But, when they accelerate, once they stop accelerating, wouldn't the g-force end? Like, if you're in a fast car, you're pushed into the seat when it first takes off, but once acceleration stops, you're traveling the same speed as the car and you don't feel the push. In the books, it seems like as they are traveling, the force is always there.
-Rob
rob_lewis said:....., when they accelerate, once they stop accelerating, wouldn't the g-force end? Like, if you're in a fast car, you're pushed into the seat when it first takes off, but once acceleration stops, you're traveling the same speed as the car and you don't feel the push. In the books, it seems like as they are traveling, the force is always there.
-Rob
You are correct, lack of acceleration is zero g (gravity can be thought of as acceleration which it really is). The fastest way to travel from one point to another though (ignoring velocity differentials) is to accelerate half way there, then turn around and decelerate the rest of the way (which that do depict in the show). If you have no concern about fuel (what the Epstien drive allows and what NASA very much cannot) your major limiting factor is how many g's you want to pull on both sides. On a typical trip, for maximum comfort, you would likely burn at 1g to halfway then burn 1g decelerating into the destination. Really no reason not to be constantly accelerating on a trip if fuel is not a concern.
I guess you could think of it as a very low powered car (or large truck) that accelerated very slowly, has very bad brakes and is completely unaffected by wind drag. To travel across a huge lake bed, the fasted way would be to accelerate to the speed and point on the lake bed that allows you to apply full brakes and come to a stop at the other end thus using maximum acceleration and deceleration at all times (kind of like racing).
bobzilla said:In reply to aircooled :
Actually, according to the books Ceres/Eros/Tycho are all at .3g and they go into the idea that there were a lot of money/time/effort to get them to that point... my folks got me the first 2 books in the series. I am almost done with them.
Oh, OK, thanks, that makes a lot more sense. I am a bit surprised, with such a long series, they did not at least mention that.
I was actually thinking a similar thing though: a practical way to deal with the gravity situation would be to build a ring around the asteroid and spin up the ring or the planet. A hollowed planet might require almost as much reinforcement as an external ring, but could still work I suspect (especially if you have very cheap/effecient thrusting power).
Season 4 is a bit different than previous seasons. There is political drama on Earth, "are you Belter enough" drama, and belter/pirate/martian drama. You know all the characters, and you're generally interested in what they are up to, but in reality its most a case of "what's happening through the Ring!"
I didn't feel like the weirdness of the new world was really highlighted as the main focus of the season until episode 5.
In reply to aircooled :
In a way, that might actually be a good idea for asteroid mining - have service tubes extend from the ring to the asteroid to be mined. When complete, retract the tubes and move the facility to the next asteroid.
I don't recall seeing the asteroid base in the show rotating very much. Granted, the rotational speed would be dependent on how big the interior facility is. The Googles turned up this:
In the 1950s, Wernher von Braun and Willy Ley, writing in Colliers Magazine, updated the idea, in part as a way to stage spacecraft headed for Mars. They envisioned a rotating wheel with a diameter of 76 meters (250 feet). The 3-deck wheel would revolve at 3 RPM to provide artificial one-third gravity.
rob_lewis said:Now, to a plot hole that I can't get over in the books. I'm OK with the Epstein drive. I struggle with the acceleration part. I'll admit I'm NOT a astrophysicist, so perhaps it's lack of my understanding. But, when they accelerate, once they stop accelerating, wouldn't the g-force end? Like, if you're in a fast car, you're pushed into the seat when it first takes off, but once acceleration stops, you're traveling the same speed as the car and you don't feel the push. In the books, it seems like as they are traveling, the force is always there.
You are correct, if the ship isn't under acceleration then there's no gravity. OTOH If you have the fuel for it, then the fastest way to get somewhere with a reaction drive is to accelerate continuously until you get halfway, shut off the engine, turn the ship to point the other way (often referred to as 'turnover') and then "decelerate" (really acceleration in the opposite direction) for the other half of your journey. This gives you thrust gees for most of the trip.
In the books, though, they often talk about being "on the float", meaning that the ship is just coasting and not under acceleration.
In the show, they worked pretty hard to show zero gee in the first season, but are spending less time on it now. The reality is that it's really expensive to do it right, and I think the money is better spent on other aspects of the production.
codrus said:rob_lewis said:Now, to a plot hole that I can't get over in the books. I'm OK with the Epstein drive. I struggle with the acceleration part. I'll admit I'm NOT a astrophysicist, so perhaps it's lack of my understanding. But, when they accelerate, once they stop accelerating, wouldn't the g-force end? Like, if you're in a fast car, you're pushed into the seat when it first takes off, but once acceleration stops, you're traveling the same speed as the car and you don't feel the push. In the books, it seems like as they are traveling, the force is always there.
If you have the fuel for it, then the fastest way to get somewhere with a reaction drive is to accelerate continuously until you get halfway, shut off the engine, turn the ship to point the other way (often referred to as 'turnover') and then "decelerate" (really acceleration in the opposite direction) for the other half of your journey. This gives you thrust gees for most of the trip.
In the books, though, they often talk about being "on the float", meaning that the ship is just coasting and not under acceleration.
In the show, they worked pretty hard to show zero gee in the first season, but are spending less time on it now. The reality is that it's really expensive to do it right, and I think the money is better spent on other aspects of the production.
Yup, pretty much this. If you're actually going someplace, you're going to be under the G's of however fast you want to get there and how much fuel you're willing to burn- they seem to (understandably) generally avoid burns (acceleration) of more than 1G for long-distance travel because of the strain. For the most part, if they're not going someplace in particular (which is one thing the books & show DOES get right- a LOT of time is spent simply getting from one place to another...) and are maneuvering they're strapped into their crash seats/beds- likewise for hard G's where they need the 'juice' to take the higher G's.
The book's (and the show's) proper handling of the physics of accel/decel led to one of my favorite lines in the first series- when the stealth ships were inbound to attack the Martian flagship with the rescued soon-to-Rosi-crew aboard, one of the tactical officers reported that the ships were 'decellerating hard toward them' or something of the likes- which without knowing how the physics works sounds like complete BS but is actually a great line when you know how it actually works...
Oh, I wanted to note: I don’t know if anyone else noticed, but Adam Savage is in the last (?) episode of season 2. He is a crew member on the research ship. He is a bit noticeable because of his slightly below par acting.
I am sure he was geeking out in a big way.
Watched the first episode of S4 last night... they're definitely making some changes to how things go from the books even this early. The biggest one that I can tell (what happened to the landing shuttle) makes some sense though in terms of streamlining things. Good to have more of it to watch- and good to see Avasarala finally unchained from broadcast standards.
EDIT: OK, after episode 2 I may be wrong about the shuttle incident, things may have gone down the same as in the novel, they're just keeping it as a mystery to be solved for the viewer instead of laying it out for the reader like the books did.
I got turned on to this series from watching a you tube channel called Because Science. The host really like the Expanse because of all the effort that they do to get the physics as realistic as possible. He even did some stuff on set with some of the actors.
So now I'm waiting for the next season.
The pacing of this season wasn't the greatest. I thought they could've moved the plots along a bit faster
aircooled said:Oh, I wanted to note: I don’t know if anyone else noticed, but Adam Savage is in the last (?) episode of season 2. He is a crew member on the research ship. He is a bit noticeable because of his slightly below par acting.
I am sure he was geeking out in a big way.
Judging by his YouTube series, "big" is an understatement.
So, I am about half way through season 3? (after Ganymede happening, just getting to the ring) The series seems to skip ahead quite a jump (as they note). I am wondering if they just cut out a lot of the books, or is that just the story? For anyone who remembers the book, is there anything in this space of time that is of interest (without any spoilers of course)?
Another thing I noted is that in one of the scenes (the one with the loose tools flying around in the maneuvering ship), they are strapped in, but seem to be pulling g's not directly down (main engine). I am not sure how this is possible. Sure you could get a bit of acceleration from the maneuvering thrusters (side stepping, as it were), but I wouldn't think it would be that much. Are the thrusters supposed to be this powerful? Or was this just a convenient plot manipulation? The racing yacht has swiveling chairs also, and I am not sure why (all significant acceleration should be directly toward the rear of the ship).
Along those lines, the ships would need to be built with the floor facing the main drive. Most of the ships seem to be kind of long and thin, which means lots of small levels. It's likely more efficient to build squat / wide ships since they don't appear to be build to enter atmospheres.
Anyway, just some thoughts. Hey, at least the show inspires some thinkin' I ran across some other somewhat related info I will put in another thread (more generally interesting)
Theres a long time (I want to say 3 years) between books 2 and 3. I just finished book 3, starting book 4. Also 2nd episode into season 4 (and happy they're making a season 5).
As for the chairs, they are supposed to be gimballed to allow course corrections under thrust (manuevering). The crash couches (what they're called in the books) are filled with a gell to absorb the G load and administer drugs to help with nausea and blood coagulation in lower extremeities
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