Attention Sci-Fi Nerds: The Expanse series is coming to TV!

aircooled said:

Another thing I noted is that in one of the scenes (the one with the loose tools flying around in the maneuvering ship), they are strapped in, but seem to be pulling g's not directly down (main engine).  I am not sure how this is possible.  Sure you could get a bit of acceleration from the maneuvering thrusters (side stepping, as it were), but I wouldn't think it would be that much.  Are the thrusters supposed to be this powerful?  Or was this just a convenient plot manipulation?  The racing yacht has swiveling chairs also, and I am not sure why (all significant acceleration should be directly toward the rear of the ship).

Along those lines, the ships would need to be built with the floor facing the main drive.  Most of the ships seem to be kind of long and thin, which means lots of small levels.  It's likely more efficient to build squat / wide ships since they don't appear to be build to enter atmospheres.

Anyway, just some thoughts.  Hey, at least the show inspires some thinkin'  I ran across some other somewhat related info I will put in another thread (more generally interesting)

My understanding is that the development of a ship like the Roci was for it to be extremely maneuverable for combat purposes. Thus is has several thrusters on its hull to achieve the performance goal. Similar to vectored thrust on a fighter jet. The cargo and transports of the show seem to have very weak maneuvering thrusters in comparison. But then again as we have all stated if you have almost no fuel limitations then it is just a matter of adding as much maneuvering thrusters as you need. So during combat in The Expanse world,  I assume that the key is to be able to move off your main thrust axis to avoid projectiles and position your own rail gun asap. Why all of the Roci crew aren't in some type of spherical seating pod I think is debatable as sensible or not? IDK. Maybe it is as simple as that level of tech may have just been cost prohibitive for several dozen military vessels of Mars. 

Advan046 said:

aircooled said:

Another thing I noted is that in one of the scenes (the one with the loose tools flying around in the maneuvering ship), they are strapped in, but seem to be pulling g's not directly down (main engine).  I am not sure how this is possible.  Sure you could get a bit of acceleration from the maneuvering thrusters (side stepping, as it were), but I wouldn't think it would be that much.  Are the thrusters supposed to be this powerful?  Or was this just a convenient plot manipulation?  The racing yacht has swiveling chairs also, and I am not sure why (all significant acceleration should be directly toward the rear of the ship).

Along those lines, the ships would need to be built with the floor facing the main drive.  Most of the ships seem to be kind of long and thin, which means lots of small levels.  It's likely more efficient to build squat / wide ships since they don't appear to be build to enter atmospheres.

Anyway, just some thoughts.  Hey, at least the show inspires some thinkin'  I ran across some other somewhat related info I will put in another thread (more generally interesting)

My understanding is that the development of a ship like the Roci was for it to be extremely maneuverable for combat purposes. Thus is has several thrusters on its hull to achieve the performance goal. Similar to vectored thrust on a fighter jet. The cargo and transports of the show seem to have very weak maneuvering thrusters in comparison. But then again as we have all stated if you have almost no fuel limitations then it is just a matter of adding as much maneuvering thrusters as you need. So during combat in The Expanse world,  I assume that the key is to be able to move off your main thrust axis to avoid projectiles and position your own rail gun asap. Why all of the Roci crew aren't in some type of spherical seating pod I think is debatable as sensible or not? IDK. Maybe it is as simple as that level of tech may have just been cost prohibitive for several dozen military vessels of Mars. 

The Roci is a MCRN fast-attack ship, and is designed for atmospheric flight so is a bit more aerodynamic in design than some of the others (see: Nauvoo/Behemoth/Medina). It's in essence a very large fighter plane for space, so has a lot of maneuvering thrust capabilities. The main drive (the Epstein) is fixed to the 'aft' of the ship and doesn't vector (that I've seen/read), but the ship can both be spun (which they have to do to fire the railgun when being pursued- momentarily drop thrust on the Epstein, spin the ship 180-degrees, fire at pursuing ship and continue the spin to the original direction and kick the drive back on) and can strafe (move laterally) using the maneuvering thrusters. The thursters are reaction-mass based though unlike the 'magic' Epstein drive. 

The floors are built perpendicular to the long axis of the ship so that when accelerating/decelerating the thrust is keeping you 'on' the floor. One thing that IIRC differs between the books and TV series: in the books (at least the last few), when the Roci lands it lands like a conventional 'plane' with the long axis parallel to the ground, whereas in the most recent season when it landed on Ilus it landed like a rocket with the main drive down (which honestly makes more sense). We'll see if that changes the next time they have to land it on a planet (shouldn't be until Season 6 or so, which will be rather interesting to see how they handle a number of things... I just finished reading the last of the published books a few days ago).

So, reading in the 5th book, the RAZORBACK was extremely manuevarable and made the Roci seem like a slug. It could flip 180* in 6 seconds. 

bobzilla said:

So, reading in the 5th book, the RAZORBACK was extremely manuevarable and made the Roci seem like a slug. It could flip 180* in 6 seconds. 

Oh, no doubt- the Razorback is small and built for speed (made to carry 2, can sort of carry 4) whereas the Roci has to do a whole lot more than go fast (and should have a crew around 22 IIRC) and maneuver. I forget if they outright said how long it took the Roci to do its spin-and-fire maneuver, but it was long enough that if they were watching for it pursuing ships had time to try and dodge its railgun shots.

Thanks for the info.

Here are some interesting videos about the science of the Expanses space ships.  The basic physics of an Epstein drive are possible, but difficult to say the least.  Interesting stuff either way.  I suspect the author of the books probably dreads such analysis.

Did anyone else notice that they never explained how Epstein was able to stop?

stroker said:

Did anyone else notice that they never explained how Epstein was able to stop?

That's because he didn't.... at least in the books, they say that you can still see his drive plume with a telescope. He's been dead for a while but the ship had enough reaction mass to keep going (since it was an old ship that needed lots of reaction mass). He had the plans for his modifications on his computer at home and his wife/family patented it and sold it.

I just started watching this a few nights ago on the suggestion of SWMBO (which frankly, I couldn't believe). I have two episodes left in Season 1 and so far I'm liking the show a lot. I'm a big Sci-Fi dork, and this one feels closer to our actual future than the Star Trek future I actually want. Has a lot of the BSG (the mid-2000's one) vibes to it, and that's a good thing. Guess I'll keep watching!

SWMBO and I just binge watched this recently on the recommendation from several friends.  Very pleased with the show, truly well-done.  Seasons 2 and 3 were just incredible.  After Amazon picked it up for season 4 I don't think the writing felt quite as good but it was still very enjoyable.  Can't wait for season 5, and I'll probably pick up the books soon so I have something good to read.

still haven't watched season 4 through yet. Just finished book 5.  

I thought season 4 was ok, but not as good as the earlier seasons. 
 

Not much really happened other than the made Avasallara (sp?) say berkeley every 2nd or 3rd sentence. 

I feel like Avasarala was horrible in season 4. They made her into an ineffectual tantrum throwing toddler instead of a powerful decisive leader. I haven't read the books so maybe that's how she was written, but I feel like seasons 1-3 showed her being one way and season 4 threw that all away so she could say the F word and throw people out of her office in every scene.

I liked season 4 but not as much as the prior seasons. I'm hoping they don't continue the decline.

dculberson said:

season 4 threw that all away so she could say the F word and throw people out of her office in every scene.

 

That's her in the books. She's a potty mouth behind the scenes string puller that is used to getting her way. 

bobzilla said:

dculberson said:

season 4 threw that all away so she could say the F word and throw people out of her office in every scene.

 

That's her in the books. She's a potty mouth behind the scenes string puller that is used to getting her way. 

Yup. The TV series also introduced her (and Bobbie as well) a lot earlier than the books did, but I can forgive them that because they're both great characters that having more of isn't bad (as a note both were largely absent from book 4, which Season 4 was primarily made from, as well). Avasalara swears like a sailor everywhere but in front of the public, it's just one of the things she does to throw people off and keep herself in a stronger position.

I sincerely hope they don't cut the dialog between Avasalara and Amos in the next season- those were some of the funniest scenes in the series IMO.

Ashyukun (Robert) said:

I sincerely hope they don't cut the dialog between Avasalara and Amos in the next season- those were some of the funniest scenes in the series IMO.

+1. "Don't you ever berkeleying call me that again" and he does it.... repeatedly. Honestly the Amos character in the book and in the series is so spot on. I like them a lot. 

In reply to dculberson :

This season is a slow burn to setup what happens with Marco in book 5 and 6. There's also a thread that sets up the events of 7, 8 and 9.

Seasons 1 through 3 setup Season 4 which is really the ground work for the series in it's current state. It's a pretty masterful setup IMO.

bobzilla said:

dculberson said:

season 4 threw that all away so she could say the F word and throw people out of her office in every scene.

 

That's her in the books. She's a potty mouth behind the scenes string puller that is used to getting her way. 

That's true, she even says precisely that in one of the episodes in season 4 to her husband.  I think it's berking brilliant..

In reply to dculberson :

I think the entire Season 4 could be viewed as a throw away for Bobbie and Avasarala for some. To be clear, I don't think you do think of it that way. I took their stories as a realistic view of how both of them would have a weird reaction an societal pressure with the end of hostilities and the orderly progress of things. Both much prefer the agressive attacking position but it is fair to say that they should and would TRY really hard to fit into the politics and social changes that they helped bring about. Unfortunately for Bobbie, Martians are realizing that Mars is a waste of time if they aren't invested in the land already. So the result of the ring actually killed her dreams for Mars being a lush green landscape with lakes. I think she would be quite settled and happy if it appeared that Mars would still be terraformed within her lifetime and she could really dig into that work.  Avasarala I think felt that she did the right thing by taking over the UN after all the chaos of the prior three season. But the point of her arc was for her to learn that she is happier and thus more effective at doing black ops, inteligence, counter inteligence and just plain evil stuff to save humanity. I don't doubt her blowing up a planet full of colonists or something if Holden and others said it was the only way to stop a protomolecule attack.

Imagine the mind blast of having to start thinking of Earth as no longer the right or best place for humanity to be headquartered? I tried to apply the overall world change of this series to my own views of the world. What would you say to your kid that announced they are going to be the first to land on a planet that is only within reach because of the rings. I mean having my kid move to the other side of the country seems mildly challenging now. But to try and colonize an alien world would take some perception change on my part. I would be happy either way for them, just have to get it squared away in my head. 

I'm up to Season 3 now. I am in love with this damn show.

Advan046 said:

In reply to dculberson :

I think the entire Season 4 could be viewed as a throw away for Bobbie and Avasarala for some. 

Which would be perfectly fine since essentially their parts in this season are not quite canon for the books- Bobbie was only in the book for a very short bit at the beginning and IIRC Avasarala was only really in the book with regards to dealing with things happening out with Holden and the Roci. It does set things up nicely for rolling into what happens in the next two books though, and one of the things Bobbie was involved in essentially takes the place of the opening chapter of the next book and happens completely differently and in a completely different place (which means that one of the events of book 6 is going to go a bit differently at a minimum).

I'm really looking forward to the coming season (hopefully seasons) to see how they follow/change things from the books. And anxiously awaiting the (at least in the original plan...) final book later this year.

I need the last 2 books....

In reply to bobzilla :

The last two that have been published are definitely going to be interesting to see translated to the screen. I'm hoping that Amazon sticks it out and finishes the whole series...

I have been staying up way too late the last couple of weeks watching this.

I've only read the first page of this thread and that was enough to get me interested. Now I'm starting season 2 and really enjoying the ride. Of course now I don't dare read any more here for fear of spoilers. 

bobzilla said:

I need the last 2 books....

 

Check your local library and see if you can get the actual book or electronically via Overdrive.  That's how I read the most recent one.

-Rob