Babies on Planes - Why Are People Jerks?

Streetwiseguy wrote:

02Pilot wrote: Perhaps, but not by much (assuming you're defining "weirdo" as "minority"). US Census Bureau indicates that, as of 2014, 47.6% of US women between 15-44 have never had children.

Nice statistic. If the age range were 22-44, I would give it some credence. I'd like to think most females choose to forgo reproduction until they have graduated from high school, at least.

Well, here's another to confirm the general trend:

"Between 1970 and 2012, the share of households that were married couples with children under 18 halved from 40 percent to 20 percent. The proportion of one-person households increased by 10 percentage points between 1970 and 2012, from 17 percent to 27 percent." (https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/p20-570.pdf)

And a big pile of statistics that show US birthrates declining: https://www.census.gov/hhes/fertility/data/cps/historical.html

Stefan wrote:

Appleseed wrote:

Osterkraut wrote: Fact: taking a small child who can't process how to clear his or her ears out with pressure changes on a plane is a dick move. However, being a dick to people when they make that mistake doesn't help. Bottom line: Just don't bring babies on planes, and just don't be a dick.

This. If you've ever had your ears painfully plug on a decent, imagine a baby that has no way to process what's happening. It's torture for that kid. If you hate kids, you can avoid Chucky Cheese.If a baby is crying in a store, you can leave the store. You cant just leave an airliner at 35,000 ft. You are stuck with that baby.

Give them something to suck on and it helps greatly. Ours breastfed pretty much the entire time or slept. I know that its not as easy when they are older and more active. What about the jerkholes that stink up the plane with their funk? Smelly feet, swamp butt, entire bottles of crappy cologne/perfume, whatever the hell they ate that apparently died in their colon. But, yeah parents who choose to or have to travel with children are the real berkeleying problem and these parents are purposely torturing them and you because they enjoy it. berkeley you for thinking this, berkeley you very much.

You act like it's impossible for there to be more than one problem on an airplane.

ALL of those people are dicks. Flying? Wash yourself. Bring a mint. Mind the rules of who gets what armrest. Don't sprawl. Be quiet. Don't get too drunk.

And maybe if you're going on a vacation or other non-mandatory travel, consider another mode of transportation. Oh and how can we tell if it's vacation travel? Well, call it an educated guess, but most families bound for, say, Orlando aren't exactly going to a funeral.

Seems like a lot of you also think it's not possible to be a decent person about said baby on said plane and still think it's a terrible, terrible idea and should be avoided.

Oh and ANC headphones aren't as good at canceling out periodic, high-frequency noise as you'd think.

in before the lock

Ian F wrote: After 20+ years of working in an open office environment, I've become pretty good at blocking out random crying and nonsensical conversations.

We must work in the same office....

I've sat on planes with crying babies. I have noise canceling headphones that block out just about all sound but what I choose to hear. I'd suggest the more self-centered of you on this thread get those headphones. You can choose to buy the headphones. Parents often have to fly with kids for various reasons out of their control. As you must otherwise you wouldn't fly right?

Here is a short list of actions that you should be berated for that isn't being a baby and crying. Although it sounds like you're pretty good at being a baby and crying to be honest or else this thread wouldn't exist in it's current form.

• Not showering before a flight
• Eating smelly food in flight
• Having an annoying ring tone and allowing it to play, ever.
• Invading personal space

Feel free to say something to anyone this short list applies to if you are that big of a jerk. Otherwise, shut up and fly. The world doesn't revolve around you and your perceived entitlement to have people never annoy you, ever. You big crying baby.

If you'd rather not deal with people take another posters suggestion and charter a plane, rent a car, sail a boat. No one is forcing you to fly. My bet is you're choosing to fly for the same reason that the parents with babies are. It's the most cost-effective and fastest way to cross states.

I'm sure parents would love a comparably priced service that was kid exclusive. I know this because I'm smart and I know those same parents feel like complete arseholes when their kid cries and makes a plane ride worse than the TSA and air travel corporations already have. You can tell because most are working like whipped enslaved miners to quiet that little human down who has no idea why their ear hurts.

Welcome to the planet. Babies happen. If you don't like them it's your problem. No one else's.

Well ive never flown with my twins but they occasionally get loud in public. There kids and damn good ones but they get excited. Ive never had them start crying in public but i have had people get angry because they were excited over something. It happens.

I will, most likely, be flying with my 2 year old in the near future and my sense of dread is palpable. So far I have avoided it but she is probably now able to handle the short trip.

Honestly, I have an uncontrollable and visceral negative reaction to screaming little monsters, mine included. I hate it so much that I do everything in my power to avoid any situation that might inconvenience others in the same way. I am an shiny happy person, but not that big of an shiny happy person.

Honestly, I am considering a long drive or an expensive charter jet. My parenting peers think that I am overreacting but it horrifies me to think about the disruption that my child is capable of. I find it almost unimaginably poor social decorum to subject everybody around me to the possibility of a random tantrum.

I appreciate that many people see it as unavoidable and are understanding of us parents who really are trying our best to be good company. The only statement that I can make with any certainty is that I find my situation very stressful.

I'm going to come down on the control your kids side of this. I'll give infants and kids up to about three, a pass in a situation where the parent can not get up and leave, but that's about it. In pretty much any other public place, such as a restaurant, show, store, or church, control them, or get up and get out. It's called being considerate.

In 30 years of raising children, I have never knowingly let them disturb another person for more than 30 seconds without getting up and leaving the building. Infants were calmed down or we went home. Toddlers were disciplined and calmed down or we went home. By the time they made it past the toddler age, they knew better. There were several instances where the order was changed to "to go," so the rest of the restaurant could eat in peace.

There are a lot of parents, who think little Johnny being a noisy little E36 M3 is funny and cute and pretty much ignore, or worse, encourage the child. There are a lot of parents who can't control their children, because they suck at parenting. I'm pretty sure that is the group pres589 is referencing. He could be one of the people in the world, that prefer fingernails on a chalkboard to a screaming kid. I get it, I can't stand screaming kids. I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a stick, than listen to a baby cry.

Being a parent doesn't give you a automatic pass in not disturbing the people around you. For every person that thinks children are cute, there is a person that thinks they are annoying little turd blossoms. Just be considerate.

By the same token, when a parent is obviously trying to control the monster that every infant has inside them, be considerate. Sometime that means sucking it up and just dealing with it.

Oh, and the parent with the bags of ear plugs and hard candy, that is brilliant.

Aside from Toyman's bit of levity, berkeley this thread.

Wife and I chose not to be parents. Neither of us like children all that much. We both absolutely loathe infants crying on a plane but we both realize there is nothing that you can do to stop that. I feel for the parents that are forced to fly like that knowing that they don't have the choice.

What really grinds our gears are when the parents are completely absent (physically there, but not parenting) and letting their little berkeley trophies run and scream and terrorize everyone around them. Listen, you're not special because you made a child. You don't get a pass and not everyone wants to watch your little berkeley trophy run and scream and be a little E36 M3. You want to be a breeder? good for you. Don't make me, or others around you take care of your child because you can't be bothered.

dculberson wrote:

pres589 wrote: In reply to Klayfish: Yes, you could have prevented it; you didn't need to have them. I didn't bring something new into this world to annoy you.

So you want the human race to fade into extinction? You're looking forward to being 90 years old and there being nobody younger than you in the entire world and sitting in your own E36 M3 and watching the world revert to nature?

I could think of much worse ways to spend my golden years, that's for sure.

I will say that I think there is a big difference between "babies" and "children".

And I think most people agree that if 4-5 y.o and up are being inconsiderate, that is the fault of the parents. And if the 0-1 y.o are being inconsiderate, there is often not much you can do after the baby is fed, dry, and warm.

Maybe a big part of our disagreement lies in the fact that some of us are imagining older kids and some of us imagine younger?

Robbie wrote: I will say that I think there is a big difference between "babies" and "children". And I think most people agree that if 4-5 y.o and up are being inconsiderate, that is the fault of the parents. And if the 0-1 y.o are being inconsiderate, there is often not much you can do after the baby is fed, dry, and warm. Maybe a big part of our disagreement lies in the fact that some of us are imagining older kids and some of us imagine younger?

I think some of us CHOOSE to think that others are thinking of younger even though it's been pointed out amongst many that it's not. Some people just look for a reason to be angry.

In reply to Appleseed:

This is one of those polarizing subjects, where everyone takes sides and defends it to their dying breath. As a parent that really doesn't like children, I can see both side of the situation rather clearly.

Personally, I'm amazed my children survived living with me. Other people's kids wouldn't stand a chance. My child tolerance is getting worse as I age. It's probably a good thing I seldom fly.

It's a big world and there's a lot of other people in it. Most of the time, when you find someone else annoying you in some fashion, they're probably not doing it specifically to be irritating. Chances are pretty high that without being aware of it, you were doing something that someone else found annoying at least once in the last twenty four hours.

The instruction I give my children is appropriate here: You may not be able to control what other people do, but remember that what other people do doesn't have to control you.

Toyman01 wrote: My child tolerance is getting worse as I age. It's probably a good thing I seldom fly.

I feel this pain only too well.

I say that you really need to be as tolerant as possible. It's not like you booked an exclusive resort and the people next door are jack-asses having a wild party. You're on a plane and people pay the going fare. Parents need to travel with infants. Accept the consequences. And if you can't cope with infants, anyone who travels today needs to be prepared for these circumstances with ear plugs, head phones and good music, etc. it's only a small snippet of your life, so accept it.

KyAllroad wrote: Because flying sucks and seems to bring out the worst in most people. A small act of kindness toward the parents who are flying with little ones will turn you into a superhero that they talk about years later.

This. While I am fully aware of the ATS mandated crying baby to passenger ratio, it is not an added layer of air-travel gauntlet that I look forward to.

That said, my sympathy is with any parent who is travelling with an infant.

T.J. wrote: Never get on a plane without headphones and if there are babies about, hope that they either remain asleep or happy for the duration of the flight. EDIT: Also keep in mind that whatever irritation a crying baby may cause you, it is harder for the parent trying to calm the baby.

Your edit astounds me, a non-baby owner who has experienced crying, flying babies. Some of those little buggers are capable of hitting a pitch that vibrates the bones in my ears so bad that my eyes roll up into my head. I think I'd rather listen to an uncorked RX8 racecar.

I love how many people keep bringing up KIDS when the first sentence of the first post specifically mentioned NEWBORNS/BABIES.

In reply to z31maniac:

So what's your point? Parents need to travel, don't they? Even if the kids are newborns. My post above covers newborns.

At some point we all have to learn to get along though, right? Sure, people do annoying stuff all the time but babies? Maybe we can cut them some slack, yes?
Perhaps some of us are identifying more with the child, who is distraught and unfamiliar with the things in life that are out of it's control, rather than the adult, who accepts that in life there are no promises of a quiet, peaceful trip through the heavens.

Gary wrote: In reply to z31maniac: So what's your point? Parents need to travel, don't they? Even if the kids are newborns. My post above covers newborns.

I think you completely missed the point of my post. I'm saying people need to quit being such berkeleying shiny happy people and have a little compassion and empathy. Just like you are saying.

We are becoming such an unbelievably hateful society.

In reply to z31maniac:

OK, got it, I guess. But your position is still not clear to me from your specific post. So I can't accept that you said "I completely missed your point." I'd say you weren't clear in submitting your position. But if you agree with my position, as you have said, I'm fine with whatever you think you said or implied.

Here's the problem I have with most of the comments, they all put all the burden on all the 100 other passengers in the plane/restaurant/whatever.

So your answer is that just in case all of us who don't have kids should have to carry around noise cancelling ear phones?

Sure there can be extenuating circumstances where you need a little extra tolerance, but the burden is still incumbent upon the parent to be sure their little "Precious" doesn't unduly disturb the rest of the paying customers.

But the bottom line is that the people around them aren't paying mega bucks to be abused by others. Something like this can completely ruin a vacation. Ever seen the migraine this can cause. The Migraine that can go on for days!!!

BTDT and I, and my kids, as well as most responsible parents (of which there seem to be fewer and fewer all the time) make sure we aren't a burden to the people around us. It's just good manners and common sense.

You don't get a pass just because it's a baby or kid. It's your job as a parent to . . .