Back to School?

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

Well i kinda want to hear it since you seem to have all the answers.

That might come off harsher than I want it to, but I am of the opinion that the vast majority of schools are useless are far as real education goes, so they might as well do something useful, like watch the children while the parents work to maintain a home.

Instead, they pander to feelings and trying to push WHAT to think instead of HOW to think all through graded schools leading to university classes that need safe spaces from people with different ideas than what they've been spoon fed since birth. University used to be the place to have yourself and your ideas challenged, now, even the Ivy League universities are more concerned about appearances than actual results or qualifications. 

Not even just from what I used to see when I watched the daily propaganda hour, err "news", but people I interact with out in the world who are now even approaching their 30s that have never been told "no, you're wrong" and expect the entire world to cater to them because "they're a special and unique flower/snowflake/berkeley trophy" because that's the drivel that's been pounded into them their whole lives. 

Like many things in this country, education needs to be torn down and started over again from the ground up, but it won't happen because too many people are making too much money from the failure of the school systems. The last thing any leaders want is a populace capable of rational and critical thinking. 

I had every intention of keeping my child out of the public school system all together, until she was about 2 years old when I realized I don't have the patience or the demeanor to serve as provider, home maker, parent, and teacher. There aren't enough hours in the day, and I just can't wear that many hats at once. 

In reply to RevRico :

You and I agree.  On every point.  (Except I certainly don't feel like I have all the answers)

We also agree on your last paragraph.  I didn't have the patience or demeanor either.  But as you know, I spent 26 years homeschooling. I learned.  And we were a single income family the entire time.

When I started school, 70% of families in the US were single income families.  Now, we expect schools to act as daycare so we can have 2 income families.  A lot has changed.

I have 5 kids.  The oldest is 32.  None of them were ever in childcare.  And even for the brief time a couple of them were in public school, we were still a single income family.  Childcare?  I'm probably not the right guy to try to solve this problem.  But if anyone would like a few ideas on how to live as a single income family, feel free to PM me.

RevRico said:

Instead, they pander to feelings and trying to push WHAT to think instead of HOW to think all through graded schools leading to university classes that need safe spaces from people with different ideas than what they've been spoon fed since birth. University used to be the place to have yourself and your ideas challenged, now, even the Ivy League universities are more concerned about appearances than actual results or qualifications. 

Hmm, this was not my experience in primary school or in college.  I do not think all schools in the U.S. do this.

Related homeschooling comment - some families seem to homeschool to prevent challenging ideas from being introduced to their children.

Sadly, in the case of families with no stay-at-home parents during the pandemic, there aren't many good answers.

Doc, you may want to check into local camps/children's museums/etc.  Our local children's museum is offering a service where they provide daycare & assist the children through their remote learning curriculum, as well as provide a place for them to play.  Downside is it costs $, and the lower income families are again left with no options.

In reply to ProDarwin :

I agree. 
 

Families start homeschooling for many different reasons. Some good, some bad. 
 

After a few years of homeschooling, most of those reasons fade away. They just don't seem important anymore. 
 

I would also note that public schools often also avoid teaching subjects that challenge them too. 

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

School clearly isn't just a child care service however it does play a large part in doing exactly that for dual income families, which describe most of American families now.

In reply to docwyte :

I'm not disagreeing that it de facto serves that purpose. I agreed with that several pages ago. 
 

I am recognizing that child care is not (and should not be) a primary function of schools, and that there ARE other options. 
 

You didn't answer my question. Are you asking this for specific personal reasons, or as a general question?  

Both.  As a dual income family this directly impacts me, along with every single other dual income family. IMO,  K-5 schools should open full bore.  Middle school/high schools can do some sort of hybrid online program, if needed.  If you're in an area that's seeing tons of cases (ie, hotspots) then that obviously needs to be reassessed...

Our school district has announced that they have added the option for full year on line learning. That's a significant shift from where they were even a few weeks ago. 

docwyte said:

As a dual income family this directly impacts me, along with every single other dual income family.

Dual income families usually have better resources to deal with this... A quick google shows there are 19 million single parent households in the US.  What do those families do?

43 states had week-to-week increases last week...

Where is there not a hot spot?

In reply to ProDarwin :

What are all of us supposed to do?  Many dual income families need both incomes to make ends meet, so they're really no better off than a single parent household. 

Just because there's a week to week increase doesn't mean that state is a hot spot of exploding Covid cases...

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

43 states had week-to-week increases last week...

Where is there not a hot spot?

Vermont. Hawaii.

In reply to docwyte :

You and I are using the same info with a different perspective.

Most families are now 2 income and need childcare.  We agree.  You are saying the state should recognize this and do something about it by providing child care through the schools.  I am saying that I recognize schools have been de facto child care providers, but this is not the job of schools.  It's the job of parents.  Some parents have chosen to utilize the schools for this (which is a perfectly acceptable option).  But schools can't provide that option right now, and parents need to make a different decision.

The options?  Professional child care, church assistance, switch to single income family, take a kid to work, flexible schedules, depend on a family member or friend for assistance, create a coop, etc.  These are all options, and I understand they are not what you want (because you are accustomed to the school's child care).  Parents need to decide.

It's a very difficult time.  No question.

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

I have no disagreement with any of that.  For my family, my wife went back to work late last year specifically to pay for the schooling.  We looked at our budget options and decided that rather than do things like re-fi the house to a 30-year (when we're better than half-way through the last 15-year re-fi), selling cars, not taking vacations, and things like that, she'd go back to work to cover the tuition.  Grade school wasn't that bad - about $8-10k/year for all three - but next year if my youngest goes in to high school and we have three there we're staring down something like $30k just to get in the door in August plus books and other stuff.  Built in to our plan around that was that I'd be able to work from home a lot, the kids in grade school would be able to ride the bus home and the high schoolers can hang out at the school until 5pm.  In the summer, we have the membership at the pool, the kids typically go to spend a couple weeks with their grandmother who lives out of town, they hang out a lot with their other grandparents who do live in town, and other types of activities like that where they can be either dropped off or I can work remotely while supervising them.

During the school year, having the kids here at home while we're both working presents a major challenge because the teachers have an expectation that we will be able to conform to the school schedule to essentially do what the teachers would normally do in the classroom.  Things like keeping the kids on task, answering questions, reviewing work before it's sent in, and then having to do the work of scanning in the work product and emailing it to the teacher all fell on me.  My wife's job is phone-based and incredibly strict about breaks and such so she's not in a position to be able to do any of that, but even my more flexible schedule does have some hard stops in it where I have to be present in meetings or accomplish tasks by a certain deadline. 

So here we are, totally stressed out and overwhelmed because we have to sort-of homeschool the kids while also trying to work jobs, one of which we only have in order to pay for the tuition so that we don't have to homeschool our kids.  I understand that they're doing the best the can, and I really don't have any disagreement with you about having a plate full of options that I don't really like, but it does add a layer of frustration.  That's why we made the decision that if in-person instruction isn't something that our schools do this year, we would find another route that involved the same amount of pain and suffering of trying to participate in kids education during the work day but at maybe a fraction of the cost.  And, of course, the other issue is that we're paying for a premium product and the Non-Traditional Instruction as they called it was heavy on the non-traditional but very light on the instruction.

So far, though, the Diocesan schools are all going to open in a couple weeks for in-person instruction with remote learning as an option.  They've got a whole plan and set of policies that they've published and they originally planned to open a bit early to bake in some instruction hours in case the gov has to close things down again they can just add a break into the schedule instead of trying to do more NTI.  We'll see how it turns out, but I know that we are very lucky in that my work is 100% remote with an incredibly flexible schedule.  For those parents that have no ability to have an adult or at least an early teen at home to supervise all day....  I can't imagine trying to figure out how to make that work.

SV, I think I'm missing something here or not thinking about it correctly. 

Obviously, the primary objective of schools should be education. However, I would think that a prerequisite of education is child-care during the education hours. Or am I misunderstanding? 

Thinking through this, I can come up with some different explanations - I'm not trying to answer for you, I'm just trying to come up with the "why": 

• Kids are in school too long today, they only need the childcare/education from the school for 4 hours a day
• Public schools are extremely inefficient. Children should be getting 2x the education they are in the same school day

I watched our school board meeting last night, the results of the parent survey was interesting.   Between first choice for schooling options, 43% choose online only, 27% choose 4 days a week, 30% choose 2 days a week blended with online.  As a second choice if their first choice wasn't available, 97% choose 2 days a week blended with online. 

They ending up voting for and passing for 2 days a week blended with online.  The teachers representative was very much against anything other then online only.

Like it or not, we've arranged society (parenting society?) around the idea that kids 5-18 will be in school 8 hours a day 5 days a week. People have babies expecting this to be true and plan the next 18 years of their lives around that. Whether this is right or wrong or inefficient or needs to change, it's where we are. Changing this is as radical as suddenly expecting that people work 2 20 hours shifts a week or now work 7 6 hour shifts or office workplaces move to a system of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd shift. All of those things are possible, but all of those things would cause HUGE disruptions in personal lives. Some people would be able to cope and some wouldn't, just like we're seeing with parenting/schools now. 

Not everyone lives the same lives or has the same stresses, and some people are barely hanging on in a life they're struggling though. There is a need for some compassion with that, not just for the current schooling issues, but lots of the Covid issues in general. 

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Absolutely no disagreement. 
 

But like it or not, that just changed, and nobody asked if we like it. Schools simply may not be able to provide child care at this time (or a time in the near future if schools close again)
 

My opinion is it's too early to reopen schools to full time face to face instruction for safety reasons.  That's the topic of this thread. I understand that is an inconvenience to the majority of people. 
 

If I'm right (and I sincerely hope I am not), then the cost of giving everyone childcare right now may be thousands of people getting sick or dying. That's too high a cost. 
 

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

I think you and I are pretty close on our thinking. That's why my kids are staying home, because they can. Because that creates space and reduces chances of spreading for those kids that can't and lowering the population at schools will make everything easier for teachers and staff. 

I disagree with that.  The numbers simply do not support that.  You have a very slight chance of getting this and then if you do, you have a very slight chance of actually ending up in the hospital.  Some states are having a harder time with that than others and obviously the situations have to match the circumstances.

This is beginning to get blown out of proportion tho.

Well I attended the virtual meeting yesterday from our school district.

We're enrolling my daughter in the online schooling. Small sample size, but there were a few things that annoyed me.

Firstly I didn't get the sense that I could trust other parents judgement.  There were a few parents that didn't seem to realize that asymptomatic doesn't mean "unable to spread." There were multiples who also didn't bother to do the research on the HIPPA regulation changes as they relate to this whole situation. Bunch of other things, but they were more politically charged.

Second the busing situation is going to prove to be the weak point in the system despite the districts best efforts.

Third more time was devoted to sports activities, and effort going into maintaining the local sports coalitions, than was spent on the actual classroom environments or learning management systems.

Fourth revolves around contact tracing and dissemination of data through the district. There doesn't seem to be a real robust consideration within the risk management plan, relying heavily on the local hospital networks to provide info back to the school. With PA currently sitting at only 11% of infected contacts traced, I'd at least like a hotline/extension at the school to call if our kid or household showed symptoms, so we can be socially responsible.

Fifth there was no information from the superintendent about how they were planning on vetting the "mask exceptions." If it's anything like the vaccine exemptions here in PA, it's an automatic no go.

We can do virtural classes, so we're going to.

vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) said:

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

43 states had week-to-week increases last week...

Where is there not a hot spot?

Vermont. Hawaii.

An island you can restrict and Vermont that no one wants to go to. Seems legit. 

docwyte said:

I disagree with that. 
 

Feel free.  I've done my homework, and made my decision.  You do you.

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

docwyte said:

I disagree with that. 
 

Feel free.  I've done my homework, and made my decision.  You do you.

 

If the government is allowing workers to return to the workplace then they need to provide a school for the children to attend. Providing an online option as well is great and allows the parent to make the decision they feel is right. If teachers don't want to take the risk they can choose to not work. Maybe making that not ruin their career should be facilitated somehow, I don't really know. I truly understand that they are scared and don't feel like they signed up for the risk or giant clusterberkely that the coming school year is going to be and it sucks, but life with Covid around sucks. School it is as much or more of an essential service than everything else we are opening and absolutely necessary  for educational reasons and for the basic function of a society.

I believe my county can keep the spread reasonably contained and we as a family need the brick and mortar option to succeed.  I won't know if my decision to send my kids back is the right one for a long time, but it is the one we are making.