Backyard build. DECK/CONCRETE/POOL

In reply to Antihero :

I don’t disagree with that. I’d much rather do residential (and did for over 30 years). It CAN be a much higher skill level, and much more rewarding.

But the paychecks are in commercial. That’s why I do it. Like tens of thousands of other companies, my residential construction company did not make it through the economic downturn (in spite of the fact that I had a stellar reputation for high quality, value, and customer service).  I am feeding my family, so I do commercial  

And it’s a little easier to hold commercial contractors feet to the fire when issues arise. There are contracts, and lawyers....

Residential has virtually no standards, and it becomes one person’s YouTube channel against another.

SVreX said:

In reply to pheller :

I’m trying to find the value in your example. 

So a reputable company made a mistake, and a bitchy woman with ridiculous resources threatens them and forces them to do punitive work (that is entirely unnecessary), and SHE’S the hero??

The only thing she is proving is what a azzhat she can be, and forcing the company to charge more to all their other decent paying customers. 

That’s not what heros look like. 

My point was, even reputable companies make mistakes. 

She could have been dead. 

If reputable companies can make mistakes, what about less reputable companies? What if a company just says "it's just concrete, no big deal, cracks happen" and the OP doesn't have the resources to litigate? What if the OP bugged them to make sure they were doing by methods AntiHero has suggested and they ignored him, then poured it anyway? 

It's good that ya'll are willing to help the OP and give free advice, even knowing he'll likely try it himself. Not everyone does that.

SVreX said:

easier to hold commercial contractors feet to the fire when issues arise. There are contracts, and lawyers....

Residential has virtually no standards, and it becomes one person’s YouTube channel against another.

Exactly. 

How does the average residential customer get commercial assurances? I think the only way is to be knowledgable on the subject and know what the best practises are prior to getting quotes. At that point your only tools and labor away from doing it yourself.

A common theme on Reddit threads for bad construction standards or contractor quality is to only pay for materials up front and deny paying for labor if another entity (contractor or inspector) sees issues. It's just sad that we've got to second guess hired work as much as our own inexperienced time and effort. Thats what the inspector is there for, I guess. 

Concrete can be tough because it oftens doesn't require inspection and you can hide issues for years. 

SVreX said:

In reply to Antihero :

I don’t disagree with that. I’d much rather do residential (and did for over 30 years). It CAN be a much higher skill level, and much more rewarding.

But the paychecks are in commercial. That’s why I do it. Like tens of thousands of other companies, my residential construction company did not make it through the economic downturn (in spite of the fact that I had a stellar reputation for high quality, value, and customer service).  I am feeding my family, so I do commercial  

And it’s a little easier to hold commercial contractors feet to the fire when issues arise. There are contracts, and lawyers....

Residential has virtually no standards, and it becomes one person’s YouTube channel against another.

I agree. I'm lucky I'm in an area where residential is a very healthy chunk of commercial (at least in the area).

I've done some commercial work before and I haven't liked it, but.....it was for horrid companies too

pheller said:

SVreX said:

easier to hold commercial contractors feet to the fire when issues arise. There are contracts, and lawyers....

Residential has virtually no standards, and it becomes one person’s YouTube channel against another.

Exactly. 

How does the average residential customer get commercial assurances? I think the only way is to be knowledgable on the subject and know what the best practises are prior to getting quotes. 

A common theme on Reddit threads for bad construction standards or contractor quality is to only pay for materials up front and deny paying for labor if another entity (contractor or inspector) sees issues. It's just sad that we've got to second guess hired work as much as our own inexperienced time and effort. Thats what the inspector is there for, I guess. 

Concrete can be tough because it oftens doesn't require inspection and you can hide issues for years. 

If I go to a job and they arent too keen on advances, or advances only for some materials.....I usually pass.

I usually get a small advance on everything. The advance is a trust check for both sides, because even though them Concrete Groupies are hot,lol, I do this for money not the chicks and if you can't trust me enough to give me a bit upfront......I can't trust you to pay. There's also a bit of me not being The Bank of Antihero too I admit.

As for the advice, I don't mind giving advice. The knowledge I'm throwing out is about 50 percent of the job though, implementation of the tips is the hard part. I pretty much never recommend doing concrete yourself, it's too specialized, too hard, and really easy to screw up. If you want to save money, I recommend painting or basic framing instead of concrete.

In reply to pheller :

“Commercial assurances” can only be had at commercial prices. Because that crap is expensive. 

I SERIOUSLY doubt the average Reddit reader has any interest whatsoever in paying commercial prices. Forget the average. I’ll say 99% would absolutely never do it. 

There are plenty of reputable ways to learn, (including the books that contractors are required to have to get their licenses). Reddit isn’t one of them. 

I welcome anyone who actually wants to learn any of the trades I know. Most people are much too busy trying to figure out how to do it cheap than to actually learn much of anything. 

Here’s the thing... it took me 20+ years to learn what I do and do it well. It’s pretty insulting when a customer argues with me because they saw something on YouTube or HGTV. 

I don’t tell you how to do your job. I am very open to input from anyone, but I would appreciate it if you hire me because you have checked my work and my references and you trust me. 

That’s the only basis for a good working relationship. 

BTW, one of the big differences between residential and commercial jobs is their net worth and credit lines. 

Commercial vendors NEVER get cash advances, and usually have to wait until 30 days after completion to get paid. Sometimes 120 days. 

The last concrete job I did was 900 yards- the total was over $350K worth of work. The vendor had to float all of that.  AND offer a 1 year warranty.  Fly-by-nights and small contractors simply can’t do that.

And contractors can’t afford to have crappy workers working for them racking up the poor workmanship and warranty claims. 

That’s a cost that residential consumers are simply never willing to absorb.

FYI, we recently had a small concrete pad poured in my backyard to install a wheelchair lift. We hired a friend of my FIL's - Hank. Hank is as a foreman for a commercial concrete contractor. 

Hank came over on a Saturday and marked off where we were digging, left a couple shovels and a wheel barrel at our house. He stayed for about 30 minutes and told me to dig down 8 inches (I think) deep where he marked off. He showed up the next day and helped some more too. I deposited the dirt we dug up around the house, garage, etc. Then he had gravel delivered at some point, same deal. 

The next weekend I walked up to my neighbors door - this neighbor owns a landscaping company - and asked for one of his guys for a couple hours. Pedro showed up the next morning at 7:30AM, about 5 minutes later Hank was there with another wheel barrel, and 10 minutes after that the concrete truck rolled up in front of our house. Pedro and I were running back and forth with the wheel barrels full of concrete. Hank was directing us where to pour it and smoothing it out. Took about 15 minutes of us running back and forth. Hank knew guy in the concrete truck, he said he'd pay him directly. I paid Pedro $75 cash. Then after awhile Hank gave me the total cost, I paid him cash as well. It was about 1/3 what it probably should have been if I did it by the books, but if I had done it by the books I wouldn't have worked any and it would have been done in one afternoon instead of over a 3-4 week period, not to mention I'd have had to pull permits, etc. I paid less. Hank got beer money. Pedro was probably the happiest of all of us, he wasn't there for more than 90 minutes.

I know I have derailed this thread, and I apologize.   I would however like to clarify something...

I am ALL for educating oneself as much as possible, with whatever means available. No one should take on a major expense project without learning everything they possibly can. 

I said I can’t COMPETE  with YouTube. I didn’t say not to watch or learn, but don’t take the things you see there as an authority. There will always be some incredible ideas there. Some of them are incredibly wonderful, and some of them are incredibly stupid. I can’t compete with the vastness of perspectives, the visual and amateur hype, and the vastness of people claiming to be experts. Some of them truly ARE experts. But I have known extremely few construction professionals with a YouTube channels  showing others how to do their craft.

Use YouTube (and other sources), but don’t assume they are right, or use them in malicious ways (like assuming a very small bit of knowledge makes anyone an expert).

I admire admire mr2S2000elise’s ambition, and encourage him to do the best he can (although that may at times mean asking for professional help). 

I’m here to help. 

D2W said:

I'm subscribed. I like to do things I haven't done before. I do have to agree with the others about the concrete work. I worked on a crew when I was young. Its hard back breaking work best left to pros. 

Work has been back breaking. Did 11 hours straight. Will update some progress after shower 

Looks like a heckuva workout. What are your tools? Sledge or jackhammer?

OHSCrifle said:

Looks like a heckuva workout. What are your tools? Sledge or jackhammer?

Tool used 
 

Of course after deck is out 

and hauling all this stuff 

realizes parts or fence needs to be fixed and tree taken out 

Did some cutting for the drains today 

removee ole patio floors

My comment is about fake grass.

I lived in SF East Bay for many years, hotter climate than SB.  We considered fake grass due to water and maintenance.  Reason we didn't go fake were surface temperature far to high in the warm months, for kids and dogs.  Verified when kids played soccer on turf fields.  
YMMV.

Keep up the good work on the project.

LarryNH said:

My comment is about fake grass.

I lived in SF East Bay for many years, hotter climate than SB.  We considered fake grass due to water and maintenance.  Reason we didn't go fake were surface temperature far to high in the warm months, for kids and dogs.  Verified when kids played soccer on turf fields.  
YMMV.

Keep up the good work on the project.

Thank you kindly for the comments. 7 year ex East Bay resident here :) 

Agree on all accounts of fake grass. However this property is under shade/oak trees, 2900 feet above sea level, and doesn't get that hot, in the parts grass will be. I would put real grass if I didn't to tear up all concrete. Lets see how project pans out.... 

will keep your guys posted 

tomorrow will install some new fencing 

Tree is gone 

Instead of watching super bowl 

fence install completed 

Draining pool today to chop off tiles

Been cold and windy 

got my bench started 

Rented pump. Took 11 hours to drain pool while I slept. Nice thing is, it's auto shut off so didn't have to fiddle with anything 

first time I have seen it without water. Scary how deep it is 

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Nice work! You're doing a great job making progress on these tasks. 

I used to work hardscape and excavation professionally (this was a decade and a half ago), and had a few clients like you. I loved those jobs where the homeowner was engaged and did as much work as they could and then brought in the pros where they ran out of skill or capacity. Some pros don't like to work with guys like you, but as a DIY'er myself, I was happy to offer advice on what to take on and what to farm out. 

As for the concrete, SVreX and Antihero have given you lots of great advice. Most concrete guys want nothing to do with pouring and finishing flatwork on someone else's forms, but you may find some people that will let you form and tie your steel yourself, then they come and tune it up as needed and then pour. I've done some concrete work myself and there's no way I'd do that job myself. 

Anyway, keep charging forward getting all the hard labor done. 

Mezzanine said:

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Nice work! You're doing a great job making progress on these tasks. 

I used to work hardscape and excavation professionally (this was a decade and a half ago), and had a few clients like you. I loved those jobs where the homeowner was engaged and did as much work as they could and then brought in the pros where they ran out of skill or capacity. Some pros don't like to work with guys like you, but as a DIY'er myself, I was happy to offer advice on what to take on and what to farm out. 

As for the concrete, SVreX and Antihero have given you lots of great advice. Most concrete guys want nothing to do with pouring and finishing flatwork on someone else's forms, but you may find some people that will let you form and tie your steel yourself, then they come and tune it up as needed and then pour. I've done some concrete work myself and there's no way I'd do that job myself. 

Anyway, keep charging forward getting all the hard labor done. 

 

Thank you for the encouragement! Much appreciated 

I am doing the things I can. Things I am trying and learning along the way. Progress is slow for a professional, but someone like me I feel like I am on a good pace. 
 

once I get a few more things buttoned up, I will have a pro concrete guy come, as was suggested by all on this thread. I realize my limitations , but there is an enjoyment of doing things you have never done. 
 

with help of tool rentals and forums, I am pushing through to see how much I can do. 
 

will keep posting my progress.