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HiTempguy
HiTempguy Dork
2/2/11 11:18 a.m.
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: It is an aid to assist acceleration on slippery or loose surfaces, not braking on those said surfaces.

Actually, 4wd/awd does help with braking... just not nearly as much as accelerating.

grafmiata
grafmiata Dork
2/2/11 11:30 a.m.
jrw1621 wrote: Please keep up the good work at the factory that makes the world a safer place.

Well played, sir!!!

It's funny, though... Yesterday we had I think 15 people call-off work. I know that over half of them have new Wranglers, and they all live within 5 miles of the complex.

Conquest351
Conquest351 New Reader
2/2/11 11:35 a.m.

My Crown Vic wouldn't get out of our driveway yesterday, since I work at a Ford Dealership, I stole one of our used cars to go home after getting a ride in to work yesterday. I got a little Jeep Wrangler 4x4. It's pretty confident in the ice.

I have a rant though...

I'm from the south, I will be the first to tell you that I do not know how to drive in the snow/ice. It's slippery, it's unfamiliar to me. I'm sure with enough time, I'd be pretty good, but we just don't get it that often.

To the jerk-off in the little red car behind me who was so far up my tailpipe I couldn't even identify the car, back up off a brotha! Why the hell are you driving 1' behind me in this kind of weather?! I was quite tempted to stop the car, or attempt to stop, and get out and come to your window to see if you had some sort of pressing emergency information you felt you needed to be in my back seat to tell me! Then when I was able to get over for you, you didn't even pass! You just stayed right there, and THEN got right back behind me again! I mean, you deliberately changed lanes to run up my ass again! I hate you...

Apexcarver
Apexcarver SuperDork
2/2/11 11:38 a.m.

I think one of the key things that puts the SUV drivers into trouble is that you dont get much of any feel for whats happening at the contact patches in them. They are numb and provide very little feedback. A miata or such is a different story, you KNOW what is happening at the contact patches.

mndsm
mndsm SuperDork
2/2/11 11:50 a.m.
Conquest351 wrote: My Crown Vic wouldn't get out of our driveway yesterday, since I work at a Ford Dealership, I stole one of our used cars to go home after getting a ride in to work yesterday. I got a little Jeep Wrangler 4x4. It's pretty confident in the ice. I have a rant though... I'm from the south, I will be the first to tell you that I do not know how to drive in the snow/ice. It's slippery, it's unfamiliar to me. I'm sure with enough time, I'd be pretty good, but we just don't get it that often. To the jerk-off in the little red car behind me who was so far up my tailpipe I couldn't even identify the car, back up off a brotha! Why the hell are you driving 1' behind me in this kind of weather?! I was quite tempted to stop the car, or attempt to stop, and get out and come to your window to see if you had some sort of pressing emergency information you felt you needed to be in my back seat to tell me! Then when I was able to get over for you, you didn't even pass! You just stayed right there, and THEN got right back behind me again! I mean, you deliberately changed lanes to run up my ass again! I hate you...

I'm one of them frozen idiots in the north, and let me tell you, while I am more than confident in my own winter driving abilities, I can guarantee you that most of the people up here represent that little red car in your tailpipe. From the sound of it, you were doing your due diligence in taking caution though, and I don't think anyone can fault you for that.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid
SyntheticBlinkerFluid Reader
2/2/11 11:52 a.m.
HiTempguy wrote:
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: It is an aid to assist acceleration on slippery or loose surfaces, not braking on those said surfaces.
Actually, 4wd/awd does help with braking... just not nearly as much as accelerating.

I don't understand how, I could understand under deceleration perhaps but not under hard braking.

Conquest351
Conquest351 New Reader
2/2/11 11:54 a.m.

Thanks, I was driving between 30-45mph. I'd keep my eyes out way ahead of me for solid ice and keep at least one set of tires (right or left) on the open pavement where there was only one line of it. If I saw solid ice, I'd ease off the accelerator, never touch the brakes, and try to be as neutral in acceleration as possible. I only felt the Jeep move around once on me and that was on a long strip of solid ice.

I'm not wrecking a car I stole from the dealership. LOL

Jay_W
Jay_W HalfDork
2/2/11 11:56 a.m.

Well, on ice, you best not be doing hard braking, and do more decel. So it helps then. More so in a little soobie than a damn Yukon o' course.

Lesley
Lesley SuperDork
2/2/11 12:20 p.m.

I drive a little crapbox in the winter... with great tires. I'm constantly passing SUVs and trucks buried in the snowbanks thanks to their delusional sense of invincibility.

I've taken part in many winter driving programs where we experience first-hand the effectiveness of real winter tires vs all-seasons. Doesn't matter if it's a $70,000 AWD german SUV against a Camry - the one wearing the snows out performs every single time.

Good tires are the most important winter safety tool. All-seasons should be banned.

NGTD
NGTD HalfDork
2/2/11 12:21 p.m.
foxtrapper wrote: Though as one who has the audacity to equip his vehicles with real snow tires, and does know how to drive in the snow and the ice, even on my motorcycles, I wish the non-drivers would please get the heck out of the way. To the gent in the Caddy this morning. I'm sure you feel quite smug about protecting the world against competent drivers. Doing 30 in the left lane of the interstate. I greatly appreciate your violent lane changes to stay in front of me when I would attempt to pass you. I'm sorry I finally out maneuvered you and was able to go back to driving peacefully. As well the rest of you entertaining snow bunnies. With your windshield wipers on high, high beams on, nose pressed against the windshield, eyes bugged out, driving 20 miles an hour in two and three lanes of highway all at the same time.

I am with you. I used to live in SW Ontario. No one down there buys snows. I did because I had them before I moved there and I had a 115 km (70 mile) commute to work. I could motor along all day in the snow at 80-90 kmh (50-55 mph), but every once in a while some "do-gooder" would slide over and block me. Down there people either drive 140 kmh to get out of the storm (seriously - that is what they think) or they drive 40 kmh. Nothing in the middle.

alex
alex SuperDork
2/2/11 12:29 p.m.

RWD longbed pickup. Snow tires, utility cap, tube sand. No problems.

Slow and steady wins the race.

Sure is hard to get that thing to rotate, though. Long wheelbase and an open dif make it tough to drift heroically.

However, Focus + e-brake = instant Colin McRae.

WilberM3
WilberM3 HalfDork
2/2/11 12:41 p.m.
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:
HiTempguy wrote:
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: It is an aid to assist acceleration on slippery or loose surfaces, not braking on those said surfaces.
Actually, 4wd/awd does help with braking... just not nearly as much as accelerating.
I don't understand how, I could understand under deceleration perhaps but not under hard braking.

my 88 xj would lockup the fronts usually before the rears, when in 4x4 the transfer case garuantees that the rear axle and front axle have to simultaneously lockup, which allowed me to left foot brake keep part throttle on and the 4x4 system helped prevent the front locking up early.

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy GRM+ Memberand Reader
2/2/11 12:43 p.m.

I lived around Albany, NY for half of my life, and used to drive in the snow a lot. Albany sucked at getting snow off the road. Aside from snow tires, looking ahead, slow braking and acceleration, I learned this:

The real #1 rule of driving in the snow safely is not to do it unless you have to.

tuna55
tuna55 Dork
2/2/11 1:07 p.m.

Everyone slower than you is an idiot and anyone faster than you is insane. I know.

RealMiniDriver
RealMiniDriver Dork
2/2/11 1:19 p.m.
Lesley wrote: Good tires are the most important winter safety tool. All-seasons should be banned.

Agreed.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/2/11 1:52 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: You do remember that you are actually from this state, right?

i moved here in '93, so i guess that's pretty much the same as being from here. when i get rich, i'm moving South. i really heart greenville SC.

tuna55
tuna55 Dork
2/2/11 2:45 p.m.
AngryCorvair wrote:
alfadriver wrote: You do remember that you are actually from this state, right?
i moved here in '93, so i guess that's pretty much the same as being from here. when i get rich, i'm moving South. i really heart greenville SC.

Hay! That's where I live! I have an uphill driveway. My Dad asked, when I moved down from Central New York, "How do you get out when it snows?" I replied "I stay home that day".

The taxes are cheaper, too, and electricity is like 7 cents / kwh!

scardeal
scardeal HalfDork
2/2/11 3:51 p.m.

Hey, I've only been up here for 3 winters. I know how to deal with hurricanes, not blizzards.

I love being able to say, "I'll just work from home." I didn't even try to pull out of the driveway.

I think I get more work done from home, anyway. I focus way better.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid
SyntheticBlinkerFluid Reader
2/2/11 6:39 p.m.
WilberM3 wrote:
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:
HiTempguy wrote:
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: It is an aid to assist acceleration on slippery or loose surfaces, not braking on those said surfaces.
Actually, 4wd/awd does help with braking... just not nearly as much as accelerating.
I don't understand how, I could understand under deceleration perhaps but not under hard braking.
my 88 xj would lockup the fronts usually before the rears, when in 4x4 the transfer case garuantees that the rear axle and front axle have to simultaneously lockup, which allowed me to left foot brake keep part throttle on and the 4x4 system helped prevent the front locking up early.

I'll have to try that out. I'm not a very good left foot braker though.

njansenv
njansenv HalfDork
2/2/11 7:48 p.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: It's interesting that 95% of the cars i saw off the road had 4wd or AWD. Also interesting that less than half of the people are at work with me today. Yet... i made it in driving a ratty Escort with crappy bald All-Season tires. It's not what you drive, it's how you drive it.

Sure, but good driving plus good equipment is even better. I never would've made it out of the driveway today in the VW, but the Subaru shrugged it off relatively effortlessly. It was a fantastic commute (70km) in to work: relatively empty roads, not too many asshats running 3 wide, and a beautiful layer of white stuff.

gamby
gamby SuperDork
2/2/11 8:51 p.m.

<---rather obvious how I feel about SUV's

My Hakkapalitta-shod, lowered 2000 Civic sedan pretty much dominates in the snow. Since I actually know how to drive it (thanks, auto-x/auto-x schools, HPDE's) I'm probably way more safe/capable than the SUV drones in the snow.

That said--OP was angry at the high rates of speed of others. I was just the opposite yesterday. There is NO need to be doing 15 in the left lane of a freeway--I don't care how hard it's snowing. Get right and let others pass. I'm not looking to do 50, but 30-35 is more than manageable for me.

The rules of the road seem to go even further out the window in a snowstorm. People go into panic mode and lose what little driving ability they have in the dry.

ddavidv
ddavidv SuperDork
2/3/11 5:18 a.m.

re: tires.

All-seasons have been re-named "no seasons" by me, because they aren't particularly good at anything. Beyond that, my contribution to the 'letter':

Dear customer of the Little Green Lizard who employs me,

I am sorry that your Saturn/GTI/Accord/Altima/Camry/Cobalt is a total loss. It is unfortunate that you now have to shop for another vehicle while trying to figure out how to pay for the destroyed one you're still upside down on. I realize you are upset. However, you will hopefully understand my detached tongue biting during your rant. I've read your accident report(s), and without fail there is some mention of a loss of steering control in the slippy stuff. As part of my evaluation of your car, I have inspected your tires. It may be helpful in the future to only drive a vehicle in the snow that has more than 3/32" tread on the front tires. Those little grooves they put in the tires are actually there for a reason.

I do, however, thank you for your continued use of our services as it assures me a job well into the future.

Jay
Jay Dork
2/3/11 6:45 a.m.
HiTempguy wrote:
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: It is an aid to assist acceleration on slippery or loose surfaces, not braking on those said surfaces.
Actually, 4wd/awd does help with braking... just not nearly as much as accelerating.

Ya, but only if you've got a central LSD which 90% of SUVs and "Crossovers" don't. (Or they have a locker which is just permanently left open.)

bradyzq
bradyzq Dork
2/3/11 7:53 a.m.
RealMiniDriver wrote:
Lesley wrote: Good tires are the most important winter safety tool. All-seasons should be banned.
Agreed.

In Quebec, as of last winter, they are! At least in the winter. You MUST have real winter tires with the snowflake/mountain thingie in it.

But I always go overboard, and have had studded snows on old Audi quattros for years. Lost of fun!

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
2/3/11 8:32 a.m.

In reply to gamby:

don't you know? if you're going faster than me, you're crazy, if you're going slower than me, you're a moron!

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