Bah Humbug!

No, it's not the fact that places like Sams and Costco have had Christmas decorations for sale since July 5th, it's some of the Holiday Traditions.

How do some of these things get perpetuated? Year after year the same drivel that wasn't good the first time.

I went to a Messiah Sing last night. It sounded neat and it's been years since I've sung or even heard anything of the Messiah except the Hallelujah chorus so I'd had time to forget how inane, repetitive and boring that particular piece was. I know now why King George (or whoever it was) stood up when the chorus came on. He probably stood up and said "Hallelujah a chorus that finally sounds like singing!"

At the opening when the Tenor is followed by a Bass repeat, unbidden the phrase Pompous A$$ pops into my brain. Handel was truly the Stephen King of his time. You can tell he was paid by the note or else he had an hour and a half to fill and couldn't come up with anything new so he just repeated the same thing over and over so that all 4 parts got their turn at singing it. Just like a Stephen King book, where if you condensed it down you'd have a good short story, the same could be said of the Messiah. It'd make a good 5 minute piece.

What's worse is that I have to go sit and listen to it tonight again. Only this time I won't have trying to follow the music to break things up. I'll have what will seem like a 5 hour hell, punctuated by long bathroom breaks. Sure hope I'm sitting on an aisle seat.

Apparently culture and me (I?) do not mix, so I guess I'm on the right forum.

Most of my culture comes from cheese

I agree with the Stephen King statement, his stuff has a lot of filler fluff. But as for Handel. You have to look at it as at the time it was written. This type of stuff was the only enterntainment source. No movies, TV or garages with project cars in them. Wouldn't be bad to sit through Messiah back then. Although now a condensed version would probably go over better.

Caveat: Many years ago in a previous life, I was a symphony musician.

I have no idea whats going on here...

Gearheadotaku wrote: I have no idea whats going on here...

Handel's Messiah is also known as the Hallelujah chorus. Most of the piece is repeating Hallelujah different ways. Over and over, repatatively. Really the Hallelujah chorus is just a part of Messiah but is repeated throughout the piece. Traditionally performed around Christmas time.

The Hallelujah chorus is really only one small aspect of this very repetitive work. It is also the only part that even remotely could be considered a song by present day standards.

I'm anti christmas.....don't get me started.......

carguy123 wrote: How do some of these things get perpetuated? Year after year the same drivel that wasn't good the first time. Apparently culture and me (I?) do not mix, so I guess I'm on the right forum.

Short answer? Marketing.

I'm not anti-Chrismas, but the terrible over-commercialization of everything connected with it has always made me gag.

I used to (be forced to) sing the Messiah every year as a kid, the resentment lives on

The Roches version is my favorite, and only 3.5 minutes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEtSkJDA61g

Regarding the whole Christmas thing, if ritual, tradition and ceremony aren't your bag, you're in the wrong store.

My high school choir (You can snicker now) was very good. I was a bass, and very still clearly remember my parts in the Messiah, still sing along in the bass part. We all enjoyed it a lot. OK, this was early '60s, but still. I still enjoy hearing it. Heathens.

I still like the pretty lights.

carguy123 wrote: ... only one small aspect of this very repetitive work. It is also the only part that even remotely could be considered a song by present day standards.

You don't listen to techno much do you?

my wife puts up two Christmas trees. I complain.

She claims her friend puts up five trees. I ask friend at church yesterday. She claims yes and her husband hates it too.

In reply to DrBoost:

I hate it, too.

we have a three foot tree and one string of lights!

I'm not anti-Christmas. It's the crass commercialization and the attendant greed that sicken me. 'BUY COMPLETE E36 M3 SO PEOPLE WILL LOVE YOU!!!!!!' Um, no. Not buying into that any more. But I still get my kid a big Christmas present or six.

In lieu of shopping like an idiot for the last couple of years I have bought small gifts for family and friends and then made a sizeable contribution to a highly regarded local charity (keeps the money in the community that way). I like that a lot better.

Techno, Phjillip Glass...

If repetitive is the standard, there's a LOT of stuff more repetitive than Handel.

Perhaps your musical appetite would better be served by sitcom theme songs that succinctly summarize the plot and each of the thoroughly inane characters in sing-songy rhyming ditties. Maybe you should invest your time in the complete works of Barney.

It's brilliant. It's deep. It is one of the greatest accomplishments in the history of musical composition.

And it's long. Not everyone can digest it. The manuscript is 260 pages long. Longer than the average comic book, but significantly shorter than most shop manuals.

Meh, he was influenced by the Baroque period, which is pretty indulgent no matter how you slice it. The polyphony of Baroque-influenced stuff tends to make it go in circles sometimes. No biggie.

The commercialization of Christmas (aka "holiday") is way more offensive to me than Handel's Messiah. It's one day, people--no need to have a 3 month buildup to it.

Yeah you can say he was influenced by the Baroque period. Considering it was the Baroque period. And employed by the church to write sacred music. Most from this period was sacred, the move to secular didn't really catch on till later. Handel, Bach, seems as a lot of the greats were that era. Even Mozart, though he lead the movement into the classical period. Mozart kept me from acing that class in college. Listening test and had to state which period the piece was from. Mozart piece played and I marked Classical, sounds just like classical period. Oh well, A minus in that class. still better than most of my classes.

gamby wrote: Meh, he was influenced by the Baroque period, which is pretty indulgent no matter how you slice it. The polyphony of Baroque-influenced stuff tends to make it go in circles sometimes. No biggie. The commercialization of Christmas (aka "holiday") is way more offensive to me than Handel's Messiah. It's one day, people--no need to have a 3 month buildup to it.

I agree, Gamby.

So, wait... let me get this straight... you dislike the commercialization of christmas, but complain that Handel's Messiah should be condensed down into a palatable, easily digested, more commercial form?

Tim Baxter wrote: So, wait... let me get this straight... you dislike the commercialization of christmas, but complain that Handel's Messiah should be condensed down into a palatable, easily digested, more commercial form?

I was going to post something about context and entertainment, but this post was for the win.

For Christmas "traditions"- I really enjoy the Nutcraker, but I was in the orchestra for that before- good music. And I very much enjoy the Harlem Nutcracker- which was Duke Ellington's interpretation of the original. Great music, again.

Ok, I'll post my point anyway- Wagner- he did a 17 HOUR piece. Yes, 17 HOURS. I've heard bits and pieces of it...

E-

SVreX wrote: It's brilliant. It's deep. It is one of the greatest accomplishments in the history of musical composition.

It's deep! That's all you've got? It's blather!

Deep is the last ditch description you use for when you don't have a defense. It's a way to try to imply that anyone who doesn't get it or like it must be mentally deficient - or at least not as mentally sharp as you are.

It's like when the Harley riders say if I have to explain it you wouldn't understand.

It's the ultimate pretentious wine drinker, nose lifted in the air, swishing the swill around in their mouth before pronouncing "it's an amusing little wine with just a hint of summer sunshine that's released from the innermost pores of the succulent grapes when you breathe over it." and then finish up with "It'll do". As if they've had much better and are really one of the few people on the planet worthy of this wine or understanding the subtle nuances of the climate that year, the flavor of the person's feet who stomped the grapes and the bottling and aging process. You simply MUST hang onto every word I say, I'm an important and educated person!

The Messiah is a little girl having a make believe tea party and playing what she imagines it to be like to be all grown up with tons of famous imaginary friends and royalty attending her party. The over the top pretensions she puts on are reflected faithfully in this musical masterpiece. He's captured the essence of a little girl playing alone in her room while she dreams of the great big world she'll someday inhabit.

I sat thru 2 hours of it again last night and the lyrics and music are juvenille. It was someone trying to show off, not someone trying to write a good piece. He obviously had a commission to finish and was drawing a blank so he took some obscure texts from the bible, one thematic piece of music and just married the two together over and over again. He wanted to stretch it to fill and rather than write more music (dare I say good music) he stretched the phrases "The refi i i i i I i i i i i i i i i I i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i I i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i ii i i i ii i i i i i i i i i i i i i I i i ii ii i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i ners fire". Come on, 5 minutes of repeating He's the refiner's fire?

The last piece has 6 pages of Amens after the orchestral interlude - I counted. And I don't mean fun Amens like in the Amen chorus, I mean Amens like the blah blah you hear when you tune out your shrink. Not that I have any first hand knowledge of that you understand, but it's what I've seen in the Saturday morning cartoons which obviously are a staple in my life.

There were tons of people nodding off during the performance, but even the deepest sleepers complimented the singers and orchestra, cause that's what you're supposed to do. They didn't want to be taken for non wine drinking buffoons so they conformed and they sparkled and they made up witty and inane comments about how good it was. This is one tradition I seriously question!

To put it in terms that anyone can understand, Handel is Frasier and his brother. Normal people are Frasier's Dad and, well, everyone else on that show.

alfadriver wrote:

Tim Baxter wrote: So, wait... let me get this straight... you dislike the commercialization of christmas, but complain that Handel's Messiah should be condensed down into a palatable, easily digested, more commercial form?

I was going to post something about context and entertainment, but this post was for the win. For Christmas "traditions"- I really enjoy the Nutcraker, but I was in the orchestra for that before- good music. And I very much enjoy the Harlem Nutcracker- which was Duke Ellington's interpretation of the original. Great music, again. Ok, I'll post my point anyway- Wagner- he did a 17 HOUR piece. Yes, 17 HOURS. I've heard bits and pieces of it... E-

Wagner makes great music to drive fast to.