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1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
1/8/24 10:35 a.m.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I was an adult in the early 1990's.  I recall, clear as day, that GM introduced Anit-lock Braking Systems as standard equipment in ALL their new car offerings for the 1994 model year.  Filed it away.  Bought a new car here and there.  They all had ABS.  I made the assumption that every car sold new in the US since the mid or late 1990's had ABS.

Fast forward to last week.  My son was driving the 2007 Toyota Corolla (this car:  https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/bang-for-buck-handling-upgrades-for-2007-toyota-corolla/211142/page1/  Apparently, he had a close call in stop and go highway traffic and informed me that he had locked up the brakes and slid a ways before coming to a stop just in time and noticed a bit of tire smoke due to skidding.  He has driven (and apparently experienced) ABS-equipped cars before, so I immediately suspected that the car might actually not be equipped with ABS.  He gets home, we pop the hood, and I am somewhat incredulous that there is in fact no ABS. 

Poking around the internet, I can find very little info on a "must have ABS" date for US market automobiles.  The year 2012 comes up most often, but many reference 2004 (which is obviously wrong).  Also, I can't find anything confirming the 1994 date for GM's full-line rollout of ABS.  Apparently as other manufacturers did not follow suit, GM found themselves at a competitive disadvantage, particularly in the low end of the market, and proceeded to de-content their cars in the years that followed.  All very fascinating.

Bottom line is, the 2007 Corolla lacks a feature that I thought was standard equipment since the mid-1990's.

02Pilot
02Pilot PowerDork
1/8/24 10:42 a.m.

My GF bought a base Cobalt coupe (manual transmission, crank windows) new in 2005. No ABS, and rear drums.

slefain
slefain UltimaDork
1/8/24 10:50 a.m.

Apparently the 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt was the last car you could buy without ABS. That's insane.

golfduke
golfduke Dork
1/8/24 10:53 a.m.

I had an early 2000's Saturn with no ABS, Power steering, or AC from the factory.  I remember that being wierd back then.  To hear you could buy a cobalt in 2010 without it is insane!  

NickD
NickD MegaDork
1/8/24 10:58 a.m.
slefain said:

Apparently the 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt was the last car you could buy without ABS. That's insane.

I remember doing the ignition cylinder/switch recalls on the Cobalts and Ions and having to check to see if it had ABS when you were relearning the theft system, because the theft reprogram asked for all sorts of options.

cyow5
cyow5 Reader
1/8/24 10:58 a.m.

In reply to 02Pilot :

Yep. I had an '09 G5 that also had the drums and no ABS. A buddy had been shopping for a Cobalt, so I went with him to check one out and noticed it also had drums but listed ABS on the window sticker. I asked the salesman to confirm the ABS, and he popped the hood, pointed at the brake distribution block, and goes "there it is". I still have not seen another car with wireless ABS, but apparently that one had it 

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/8/24 11:26 a.m.

ABS is still not required as standard equipment, but the hardware and software needed to do ABS are a subset of the hardware and software required to do Electronic Stability Control, which is required per NHTSA.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-571#571.126

Long story short:  ABS was never mandated because NHTSA studied crash data from vehicles with and without ABS and found no reduction in number of crashes on cars so equipped.  What the data say is that the type of crashes changed: Less rear-end crashes, more "drive into ditch" crashes. Without ABS, car with locked tires slides straight ahead and crashes into back of car ahead. With ABS, tires don't lock, car decelerates as it follows driver's command to head for the ditch. However, with ESC, there is a clear reduction in the number of crashes.

 

BoulderG
BoulderG Reader
1/8/24 11:39 a.m.

Going way back with the trivia I remember learning:
1974 - 5 mph bumpers [corrected]
1986 - third brake light
1989 - automatic seat belts, including the awful motorized ones [as 'passive restraint']
2018 - mandatory backup camera [corrected]

 

Steve_Jones
Steve_Jones UltraDork
1/8/24 11:47 a.m.
BoulderG said:

Going way back with the trivia I remember learning:
1973 - 5 mph bumpers
1986 - third brake light
1989 - automatic seat belts, including the awful motorized ones
2012 - mandatory backup camera

 

Back up camera was not until 2018. Some Toyota Camrys are 2018 (and do not have them standard), Some are considered 2018.5 and do.

johndej
johndej SuperDork
1/8/24 11:52 a.m.

Had a co-op come work for us one some, her folks had bought her a brand new dodge dart in like 2014. It did not come with factory AC.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/8/24 11:54 a.m.
Steve_Jones said:
BoulderG said:

Going way back with the trivia I remember learning:
1973 - 5 mph bumpers
1986 - third brake light
1989 - automatic seat belts, including the awful motorized ones
2012 - mandatory backup camera

 

Back up camera was not until 2018. Some Toyota Camrys are 2018 (and do not have them standard), Some are considered 2018.5 and do.

There was a phase-in schedule for Electronic Stability Control:

S8. Phase-in schedule.

S8.1 Vehicles manufactured on or after September 1, 2008, and before September 1, 2009. For vehicles manufactured on or after September 1, 2008, and before September 1, 2009, the number of vehicles complying with this standard must not be less than 55 percent of:

(a) The manufacturer's average annual production of vehicles manufactured on or after September 1, 2005, and before September 1, 2008; or

(b) The manufacturer's production on or after September 1, 2008, and before September 1, 2009.

S8.2 Vehicles manufactured on or after September 1, 2009, and before September 1, 2010. For vehicles manufactured on or after September 1, 2009, and before September 1, 2010, the number of vehicles complying with this standard must not be less than 75 percent of:

(a) The manufacturer's average annual production of vehicles manufactured on or after September 1, 2006, and before September 1, 2009; or

(b) The manufacturer's production on or after September 1, 2009, and before September 1, 2010.

S8.3 Vehicles manufactured on or after September 1, 2010, and before September 1, 2011. For vehicles manufactured on or after September 1, 2010, and before September 1, 2011, the number of vehicles complying with this standard must not be less than 95 percent of:

(a) The manufacturer's average annual production of vehicles manufactured on or after September 1, 2007, and before September 1, 2010; or

(b) The manufacturer's production on or after September 1, 2010, and before September 1, 2011.

S8.4 Vehicles manufactured on or after September 1, 2011. All vehicles manufactured on or after September 1, 2011 must comply with this standard.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/8/24 11:54 a.m.
BoulderG said:

Going way back with the trivia I remember learning:
1973 - 5 mph bumpers
1986 - third brake light
1989 - automatic seat belts, including the awful motorized ones
2012 - mandatory backup camera

 

I think the motorized seat belts could be used in place of an airbag - they satisfied the same requirement. They were an evolutionary dead end :) The line was Sept 1989, which meant that some 1990 Canadian Miatas could be imported into the US (before the 25 year statute of limitations) but not all.

mtn
mtn MegaDork
1/8/24 12:00 p.m.

My Dad was mighty proud at the time of his 1987 T-Bird with ABS. In December of that year, he decided that was a better choice than mom's Olds Toronado, because of the ABS, to drive through a snowstorm to the hospital as my mom was in labor with my older brother. 
 

We've since discussed that it probably was the worse choice because of RWD, but he'd only driven RWD cars at that point in his life (and has only had 3 years of AWD and 1.5 of FWD since) so it was probably good enough. 

cyow5
cyow5 Reader
1/8/24 12:01 p.m.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

ABS is still not required as standard equipment, but the hardware and software needed to do ABS are a subset of the hardware and software required to do Electronic Stability Control, which is required per NHTSA.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-571#571.126

Long story short:  ABS was never mandated because NHTSA studied crash data from vehicles with and without ABS and found no reduction in number of crashes on cars so equipped.  What the data say is that the type of crashes changed: Less rear-end crashes, more "drive into ditch" crashes. Without ABS, car with locked tires slides straight ahead and crashes into back of car ahead. With ABS, tires don't lock, car decelerates as it follows driver's command to head for the ditch. However, with ESC, there is a clear reduction in the number of crashes.

 

That's interesting that ESC is defined as having the ability to intervene with individual brakes. I haven't seen that specific requirement before. When I was at Bosch Motorsport, ESC was defined internally as a closed loop control of yaw, whatever the mechanism. This meant that engine torque management was sufficient, and brake intervention was optional. This lead to TC and ESC looking very similar from the outside since they both used engine torque management, but the closed-loop variable being controlled was different (yaw for ESC and wheelspin for TC). 

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
1/8/24 12:43 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:
I think the motorized seat belts could be used in place of an airbag - they satisfied the same requirement.

This too, is the way I remember it.  They used the term "passive restraint" as in the driver and front passenger did not need to "do" anything, and would still be restrained.  My 1989 Mazda 626 was afflicted with the motorized seat belts, but they never failed in 14 years of ownership, and I have nothing but highly positive things to say about that car.  As I recall, only the shoulder belt was motorized, and unless you manually fastened the lap belt, you were going to be better off without any of it.  A short-lived solution to a regulatory challenge.

Peabody
Peabody MegaDork
1/8/24 2:12 p.m.
johndej said:

Had a co-op come work for us one some, her folks had bought her a brand new dodge dart in like 2014. It did not come with factory AC.

In 2022 you could still buy a Chevy Spark without air.

Regarding the title, memory is a really interesting thing. It's very easily manipulated and totally unreliable. I trust very few of my own memories, and assume that they're just as likely to be made up.

That's when I actually have one

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
1/8/24 2:40 p.m.
Peabody said:

Regarding the title, memory is a really interesting thing. It's very easily manipulated and totally unreliable. I trust very few of my own memories, and assume that they're just as likely to be made up.

I don't disagree with you, memory is indeed fallible.  But I still do stand by my statement that (around 1994) GM did in fact at least make the definitive statement that ABS would be standard on all GM production cars.

https://www.wardsauto.com/news-analysis/gm-eyes-option-only-abs

 

And it does appear that 1995 Cavaliers came with 4-wheel ABS standard.  If it came on Cavaliers, let's face it--it came on everything GM.

https://consumerguide.com/used/1995-05-chevrolet-cavalier/

 

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

ah, the Delco ABS-6, that's the first system I worked on when I moved to Detroit in 1993.  interesting design, used a bi-directional motor to pull or push a piston to decrease or increase hydraulic pressure to each wheel.  Advances in response time and reduced costs of solenoids-controlled valves made the ABS-6 obsolete.

Shadeux
Shadeux GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
1/8/24 4:30 p.m.

About two years ago I was assigned a new-ish (less than 8-10 years old) Ford truck with 4WD to pull a 15 passenger tram through Florida sand roads. Plopped it in 4WL and off we went. Boy, each time I did the circuit it took all of my driving skills to make it around. I could feel the front was working but like not doing much. I finally picked up a young Park Ranger that needed a lift. I was sweating bullets because I did not want to strand 15 people in the middle of the woods. I shared the issue with the ranger and after seeing he saw how the truck was just barely making it, he asked "hey, did you turn the hubs?" My face did the meme thing with the Rock in the front seat looking back at his passenger. I stopped, he got out and turned the hubs, and after that I was unstoppable.  MANUAL HUBS in this day and age!? I guess I've been around Jeeps too long. 

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/8/24 6:41 p.m.
1988RedT2 said:

In the spirit of full disclosure, I was an adult in the early 1990's.  I recall, clear as day, that GM introduced Anit-lock Braking Systems as standard equipment in ALL their new car offerings for the 1994 model year. 

Hm.  I thought that was Chrysler?  Thus explaining why Neons had that godawful 2-channel diagonal ABS system where when cornering it would shut down the outside front brake because the inside rear had come off the ground...

 

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
1/8/24 9:27 p.m.

I'm all but certain it was GM, but I suspect most manufacturers offered it as an option at least.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a2107211/gm-hits-brakes-abs-antilocks-will-become-options-low-end-cars/

The above article talks about GM making ABS optional instead of standard equipment back in 2002, but they don't mention the date they started offering it as standard.

 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
1/9/24 12:54 a.m.
Shadeux said:

About two years ago I was assigned a new-ish (less than 8-10 years old) Ford truck with 4WD to pull a 15 passenger tram through Florida sand roads. Plopped it in 4WL and off we went. Boy, each time I did the circuit it took all of my driving skills to make it around. I could feel the front was working but like not doing much. I finally picked up a young Park Ranger that needed a lift. I was sweating bullets because I did not want to strand 15 people in the middle of the woods. I shared the issue with the ranger and after seeing he saw how the truck was just barely making it, he asked "hey, did you turn the hubs?" My face did the meme thing with the Rock in the front seat looking back at his passenger. I stopped, he got out and turned the hubs, and after that I was unstoppable.  MANUAL HUBS in this day and age!? I guess I've been around Jeeps too long. 

Trust me, you don't want the Ford Integrated Wheel Ends anywhere in your life.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/9/24 1:51 a.m.

That IS shocking, if I had to guess I would've thought the last non-ABS equipped cars were sold in the late '90s in the US. And I'd expect the last cars sold without it to be low-end vehicles based on ancient designs, probably fleet-oriented vans or pickups.
 

 "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain

Toyman!
Toyman! GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/9/24 8:27 a.m.

I'm still amazed that this thing had ABS and traction control in the '07s. I've already had to turn off the traction control, but I hope I never have a need for the ABS. 

Untitled photo

camopaint0707
camopaint0707 Reader
1/9/24 8:30 a.m.

My 07 solstice doesn't have ABS either

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