Bicycle challenge

I have an old Bianchi mountain bike, but sadly it's the wrong color.

So do I. Mine's a dark metallic green. Even if it is the wrong color, I love my Bianchi.

DILYSI Dave wrote:

Ian F wrote: An even cheaper option is to buy a used Specialized P1 or similar... which can be found ready to ride for well under a grand and will easily hold up to anything you can throw at it.

And it begins - I just won this one - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170359067065 Any idea what size hubs fit it? 135/150? How about front? How about Bottom Bracket? I've got a buddy who will hook me up with some Profiles with a 39T wheel and bash guard if the frame will take the 22mm spindle.

bump.

I'm 99% sure the P1 is a Euro BB. If that's the case, will BMX Profiles fit if I use this BB - https://www.danscomp.com/456061.php (The 22mm european version)? I think it will all fall together, with the possible exception of width. Is a BMX and MTB bottom bracket the same width? FWIW, I'm planning on a single front sprocket, like a BMX.

And while I'm asking questions, will the shifter and rear derailleur from my old Trek work on this build? The shifter is one of those thumb shifters with an upshift and downshift button. Rapidfire maybe? I believe the derailleur is a Shimano Deore. One concern is that the Trek has a 6 cog rear and most modern wheels are holding 8-9 speed cassettes. Not sure what that means for using the old parts.

Spec P1 2003 specs

The BB shell on that one is 73mm, and the original spindle length was 113. That's the size I would recommend using for the best chain line. Even if you manage to get the Profile cranks on there, the shortest spindle available for them is still going to be 1/2" or so longer which is going to play hell with your chain line.

The rear hub looks to be a standard (135mm) width, you can double check the inside-to-inside dropout measurement with a caliper. Be sure to use a bolt-on rear wheel with those slotted dropouts. A QR is not going to keep the rear wheel in place, and when the wheel slips under load and throws that chain offa there, it's going to hurt.

I would not try to outfit this bike with gears. It was set up for single speed and that's what it's going to do best.

They sold P1's both single and geared. I read there wasn't a difference in the frame. Are you saying otherwise? I really want this one geared. The General Lee is single, and while fun, I don't ride it as much as I would a geared bike.

P2
Yes. The geared version (P2) has a standard vertical dropout. Look closely at the pic (click the link to enlarge it) and you will see that these frames are definately different. There's no difference in the geometry between the P2 Large and the P1 (only came in one size), but there is that dropout difference because of the single speed.

EastCoastMojo wrote: P2 Yes. The geared version (P2) has a standard vertical dropout. Look closely at the pic (click the link to enlarge it) and you will see that these frames are definately different. There's no difference in the geometry between the P2 Large and the P1 (only came in one size), but there is that dropout difference because of the single speed.

Gotcha.

Hmmm....

So, if I want a geared bike, can I make this work or do you suggest I hit the reset button?

You're gonna have to do a hard reset on that one, but single speedin' is fun too! Maybe build it on the cheap and resell it? Fall and winter is great single speed weather and the bike will be easier to sell built that as a frame only.

Well berkeley.

I could have sworn the geared I rode was a P1. Damnit.

Mojo - Take a look at the pic - Isn't that a derailleur hanger below the drop out?

Sorry dude. Can you guess what the 1 in P1 stands for now?

DILYSI Dave wrote: Mojo - Take a look at the pic - Isn't that a derailleur hanger below the drop out?

That is for mounting a chain tensioner.

What about something like this - http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1031702_-1___

I know it's not what you want to hear, but I still don't recommend trying to put gears on that frame. There were four other bidders on that frame when you won it, you can probably relist it and recoup most of your money. There's not any P1's listed right now. Maybe get this.

That P2 is a possibility I suppose. I'm not trying to be obtuse, but can you explain why gearing this one is a bad idea? I pulled the derailleur off of my old Trek, and the mount on it and on the P1 look damn near identical, complete with the little tab that you use to adjust the angle of the derailleur.

Also - This is what my dropout looks like -

My frame also has the cable guides.

The rear wheel will not always wind up in the same spot in the dropout and that will affect the shifting. Since it takes more precision to get the wheel square to the direction of the chain line, it doesn't always end up that way. If you use a QR then it is almost guaranteed to shift forward in the frame, moreso on the drive side, and then moving the chain in and out along that axis makes the problem worse. The chain is going to want to come off the front because of the sideways movement that being in the outboard gears in the back introduces to the chain. I would use a crank that will allow you to run a metal ghainguard on the outside. If the chain also wants to derail to the inside you can run a front derailleur as a chain guide.

I am of the opinion that if gears don't work well then there's no point in having them, they will only take away from your enjoyment of the bike.

Specialized would not bother to make the two different frame styles if one could do both well.

The P1 & P2 share the same tubeset because they share the sae geometry, so the cable guides are there on both bikes. Specialized makes an insert that you can put into the dropout of the P1 that will allow you to have a fixed position that the wheel sits in, so that would take care of the wheel shift problem, but removing the wheel will still have a pain in the ass factor because of the long rearward facing dropout. Definately use a crank with a chain guide on it if you are using one chainring in the front to keep the chain on.

Earlier I had stated that the P2 had a vertical dropout, and that is incorrect, however the P2 still has a different dropout that is designed to work with multiple gears. The dropout on the P1 is a longer horizontal dropout that that is on the P2. The P2 dropout is still a horizontal, rearward facing dropout but it is designed to place the wheel all the way forward in it, to center the wheel over the derailleur properly, and to hold it in place under load, with the combined leverage that being in an outboard gear will have. The dropout on the P1 however, is designed so you can pull the wheel back to get proper chain tension, since you have to have enough to keep the chain from skipping or bouncing off. Single gear bikes run a higher chain tension than geared bikes do.

have you thought about an internally geared hub? not sure if it would work... but it might? i've been wanting a single speed MTB so if you can convince me to cut your losses I might be able to

On a side note, can we talk about how I can't hop anything on my E36 M3 MTB? I can't tell you how many popped rear tires I go through because I just can't lift that wheel. I've watched the youtube videos and tried to practice but I still come out at around 6 inches max. Some people just seem to be able to get their seats past their armpits. how??????

Taiden wrote: have you thought about an internally geared hub? not sure if it would work... but it might? i've been wanting a single speed MTB so if you can convince me to cut your losses I might be able to On a side note, can we talk about how I can't hop anything on my E36 M3 MTB? I can't tell you how many popped rear tires I go through because I just can't lift that wheel. I've watched the youtube videos and tried to practice but I still come out at around 6 inches max. Some people just seem to be able to get their seats past their armpits. how??????

If I end up looking for an escape plan from the P1, I'll let you know.

The key to a solid bunny hop is realizing that it's a two-part operation. As a kid, when I realized this, I went from 4" hops to 15" hops overnight, and eventually maxed out at around 24". You aren't trying to lift the bike. What you do is first get the front tire up (Step 1) then throw your weight forward and tuck the rest of the bike up to the level of the front tire (Step 2).

After not riding a bike for over a decade, I hopped back on one, and within 15 minutes was back to 15" or so. Additional height will come with additional strengthening. As a bonus, being a good bunny hopper gives you pretty bitchin forearms.

IMO, part of what makes it hard on a MTB is the traditional MTB stance. Ass in the air, fully extended legs, and bars that force your face over the stem all go against bunny hopping form. Part of why I like the P-Series is the low top tube and low seat, giving it a more BMX feel. Right now I've got high rise MTB bars on it, but I might abandon those for some even taller BMX bars once I have some seat time on it.

Well Dave, after talking with my Specialized rep this morning it looks like I was wrong on the dropout. The P-Bikes of that vintage all shared the same dropout. I could have sworn that the P-1 we had in the store had the burlier, single speed specific dropout on it. Looks like you are good to go on the gears, sorry for the confusion.

EastCoastMojo wrote: Well Dave, after talking with my Specialized rep this morning it looks like I was wrong on the dropout. The P-Bikes of that vintage all shared the same dropout. I could have sworn that the P-1 we had in the store had the burlier, single speed specific dropout on it. Looks like you are good to go on the gears, sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for checking!

Any thoughts on whether the old school 6 speed derailer and shifter will work with a modern 8-9 speed wheel?

Also - are all derailleurs the same thread? The one that came off the trek (Shimano Deore IIRC) looks like the same threads as on the P1, but it doesn't want to start. An M10-1.0 looks A LOT like a 3/8-24, so if both exist, I don't want to cross thread something.

Looks like my old derailleur and shifters are no good for swapping over. I just picked up a wheelset on ebay with disks and a 9 speed cassette. So I now need a 9 speed shifter and derailleur, along with the rest of a disk brake setup.

Any thoughts on this - http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/SL604B02-Shimano+Lx+St-M585+Levers.aspx. With this, all I would need for brakes is calipers, right? Are they generic or brand specific (ie, will shimano levers and hoses work with any caliper, or only shimano?)

I like the idea of the hydraulics levers and the shifters integrated into a single unit. I won't be using the front shifter, but whatever.

Also - my understanding is that with a single front cog, I am safe using a short cage derailleur, which will be quieter, lighter (not that it matters on this anchor) and shift better. Would you agree?

I don't know the answer, but I am jealous of your bicycle project.

I wish I knew more about frames to pick one for my uses and ride the living p-ss out of it.