Budget semi audiophile amp

I'm in the market for a good 2 channel stereo. I'm a tube fan, but would rather not spend more than 400. Yanqin makes a nice tube preamp unit that I can get new for under 300. Any other ideas? I dont mind used, but I'd want some sort of warranty. Thanks

PS Driving Fostexs in open baffles

no receiver features?

http://emotiva.com/upa2.shtm

Integrated amp. Don't need a tuner, but would not mind one. 4 inputs is plenty.

emotiva tends to destroy others when reveiwed, especially in the value for dallor dept.

Geez... and I was gonna recommend doing some shopping and see if you could luck into a nice old Macintosh or Haffler... but for the coin, I think the Emotiva is a good buy.

Go used. Emotiva is a pretty harsh sound, and not something i would pair with Fostex drivers.

I've tried, reviewed, and hated almost every piece of emotiva gear i've had run through here.

It's very solid gear for the money, no doubt about it, but it's a matter of whether or not you'll be able to listen for any length of time without bad fatigue due to sibilance.

The people who rave about it are those that are taking their first step into the world of separates.

Do you need an amp? Or a Preamp? Or both?

Just a thought- if you're handy with a soldering iron (and maybe some basic woodworking) an old console amp can be a great value. I use a SE Magnavox EL84 in my office and a Motorola PP EL84 in my main rig. Usually, a few bucks worth of caps will get them running. Don't have to be an amp designer or anything- just replace like for like.

The Motorola sounds fantastic. Has nice, beefy output transformers. Even the little Magnavox sounds great with a small sub.

I've got an old 2,000 Watt amp sitting around. Four bulbs.

I don't personally know the Emotiva gear other than reviews... I usually buy used and vintage stuff, 'cause that's my tastes. I've got some older consumer grade amps that do a nice job, especially for how cheap they are. That said, there was a recent Onkyo I heard and liked... based on a quick google search, I think it was the A9555. Kinda pricey, but I see it can be had for under $400 refurb'd. My current home theater setup is a refurb'd Onkyo kit (from 2004) and it's pretty dynamite.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Go used. Emotiva is a pretty harsh sound, and not something i would pair with Fostex drivers. I've tried, reviewed, and hated almost every piece of emotiva gear i've had run through here. It's very solid gear for the money, no doubt about it, but it's a matter of whether or not you'll be able to listen for any length of time without bad fatigue due to sibilance. The people who rave about it are those that are taking their first step into the world of separates.

I reject that conclusion. ;p

Basically, it depends on your pre-existing listening habits.

Your remarks kind of match people who listen to compression horn-type speakers for the first time. (like most Klipsch)

Brightness, harshness, sibilance, etc

I prefer to say that the quality of amps and speakers like this are instead "ruthlessly revealing" of poor quality recording and mastering.

Its even more extreme if you use compressed digital music, like mp3 or aac. The artefacting becomes ridiculously evident.

So here's what I found, an NAD 3020 at a local shop with a 3 month warranty. Went with that.

The money I saved will be used to find a couple of old tube mono blocks to re-cap.

The Fostex's sound awesome. It's my first experience with open baffles. So far I like it.

Good to know there are budget minded audiophiles around here.

madmallard wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Go used. Emotiva is a pretty harsh sound, and not something i would pair with Fostex drivers. I've tried, reviewed, and hated almost every piece of emotiva gear i've had run through here. It's very solid gear for the money, no doubt about it, but it's a matter of whether or not you'll be able to listen for any length of time without bad fatigue due to sibilance. The people who rave about it are those that are taking their first step into the world of separates.

I reject that conclusion. ;p Basically, it depends on your pre-existing listening habits. Your remarks kind of match people who listen to compression horn-type speakers for the first time. (like most Klipsch) Brightness, harshness, sibilance, etc I prefer to say that the quality of amps and speakers like this are instead "ruthlessly revealing" of poor quality recording and mastering. Its even more extreme if you use compressed digital music, like mp3 or aac. The artefacting becomes ridiculously evident.

Heh, perhaps... But i also have some of the warmest speakers on earth, often paired with tube amps.

A preamp alone should NOT be able to make my tube-powered Paradigms sound like Klipsch Home theatre horns powered by a high-distortion pro amp while playing SACDs.

I'll keep my B&K gear on my Paradigms.

There IS one situation i would use Emotiva gear, and that would be for home theatre. I just feel that it has no place in a 2-channel setup, which is exclusively what i run these days.

For the record, i don't hate horns. I was quite happy with a pair of Klipsch Forte IIs for quite some time, even driven by a solid state amp.

Not to be pedantic, but i leave you with this: If it's about how revealing they are of bad recordings due to their higher quality and nothing else... then how come the same recording played on a pair of Paradigm Signature 8s powered by Anthem amps didn't have the same "problems?" I feel that different amps, preamps, speakers, etc etc etc all sound different. Emotiva just has a "signature sound" that i don't enjoy for 2-channel applications. I do enjoy it for HT, though. TONS of impact, TONS of power, and TONS of bass. The Emotiva XPA-2 that i had shortly felt like it would have blown me through a way without breaking a sweat.

Jeff wrote: So here's what I found, an NAD 3020 at a local shop with a 3 month warranty. Went with that. The money I saved will be used to find a couple of old tube mono blocks to re-cap. The Fostex's sound awesome. It's my first experience with open baffles. So far I like it. Good to know there are budget minded audiophiles around here.

Nice pick up! My only complaint with NAD gear is that sometimes the older stuff isn't the most reliable, but that's only sometimes, and they DO sound good. Great stuff for the dollar!

Got pics of the Fostex setup?

darkbuddha wrote: I don't personally know the Emotiva gear other than reviews... I usually buy used and vintage stuff, 'cause that's my tastes. I've got some older consumer grade amps that do a nice job, especially for how cheap they are. That said, there was a recent Onkyo I heard and liked... based on a quick google search, I think it was the A9555. Kinda pricey, but I see it can be had for under $400 refurb'd. My current home theater setup is a refurb'd Onkyo kit (from 2004) and it's pretty dynamite.

The A9555 is a killer integrated on a budget. I've been looking for a good sale on one for awhile for the garage.

I'm currently messing around with a modded Onkyo M5150, and it's a HELL of an amp. Not bad for $75.

With regard to systems revealing poor/mediocre recording quality, I find such complaints to be a bit pointless. For me, as a musician, I want my system to be musical, not overly revealing. And as an ex-studio and mastering engineer in pop, rock and classical, I can say that our goals in the studio are seldom highest fidelity, as opposed to transferability and broadcast compliance. There are exceptions...as a computer music composer I seek out the highest fidelity I can achieve (while still being musical). In fact, all of my recording is done at a minimum of 24/96 and all internal computer audio signal generation and processing is done at a minimum of 32 bit (usually 64 now), and is only dropped to 16 or 24 at output. And lets not forget the average C1 error rate on a consumer level CD can reach 200 errors PER SECOND (sometimes more). Some claim that isn't audible, but having a/b'd CDs of the same recording with higher and lower error rates (on an audiophile system), I can tell you I believe I heard the difference.

My point is, IMHO a system should be pleasurable to listen to unless you're "working".

^That.

I'm not listening for anyone's enjoyment but myself. I prefer my systems to be on the neutral-to-warm spectrum with a very lush midrange.

I can appreciate a 100% accurate setup... but it sounds sterile, and i have no interest in listening to that sort of thing long term. Should be fun, not clinical. And if i get even one HINT of sibilance, i'm OUT.

You say you do computer composition? What sort of stuff? (I'm listening to Glitch Mob right now, if that's relevant at all. )

Here is my low buck system

Niiiiiiiice!!!

Those are the 4" Fostex, right?

I had a buddy that built some bizarre 6 foot tall open-top towers using those drivers, they were wild!

Yes, the four inch 127. It's meant for an inclosure, but I'm lazy and had some old MDF lying around. The bass is a little thin if you're not sitting in the sweet spot, but I really like the sound. I need to play around with speaker position.

BTW, I'm using a cheap Sony DVD player for my CD's now. I now they make audiophile level CD players that sell for major bucks. What is a good compromise?

Used gear. Should be able to find a used NAD or Adcom CDP for decently cheap.

If you want to go a bit more mainstream to make it easier to find something, anything Pioneer branded "Elite" makes for a decent CDP. Not the last word, but they're nice for the money. I sold a silver-faced one about a year ago for $90. Deals are out there. (They'll be DVD players, but work well for CDs)

Also i don't know how much Rega's entry level CDP is these days, but that stuff is VERY good for the price.

If you're using a 3020 as your amp, I'm not sure a CD player upgrade would make much difference. I was wondering what people would think of your amp choice. The audiophile crowd seems to be split on NAD equipment (and especially the 3020). Some like it, some think it's junk.

Forgive the aside...

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: You say you do computer composition? What sort of stuff? (I'm listening to Glitch Mob right now, if that's relevant at all. )

I do the experimental/algorithmic/research-based thing... using Suerpcollider primarily, but have used CSound, Common Music, CLM as well. Gltch Mob is always fun... descended from the Kraftwerk/Eno/Aphex Twin/Autechre line... I'm more descended from the Beethoven/Stockhausen/Xenakis/Chowning line.

Zomby woof wrote: If you're using a 3020 as your amp, I'm not sure a CD player upgrade would make much difference. I was wondering what people would think of your amp choice. The audiophile crowd seems to be split on NAD equipment (and especially the 3020). Some like it, some think it's junk.

It's not the last word in audio, but it's entirely adequate for what he's using it for at the moment. Garbage in, garbage out, and that Sony DVD player is likely garbage.

This thread made me fire up my seldom used "stereo digital audio" setup... Panasonic sv-3500 DAT deck and Marantz CDR615 recorder/player through a Denon pma-520 amp to a pair of JBL 4408s (can you tell I have a pro audio history?). Not a particularly glamourous setup, but boy does it make Elvis Costello and GN'R sound good.

Thanks guys!