Building in a flood zone

So there is a building down the street from me that has a problem - it has flooded the first floor 2 times in the last 2 years. And the 20+ year retail tenant left them this spring because of this. I have a creative idea for using the space for the 99.8% of the year that it isn't full of water. And for that portion of the year it really is an awesome space. 

The idea hinges on the fact that the space is quite cheap because of the really unfortunate .2% of the year... But if I plan for it, I wonder if building techniques and materials can be adapted such that cleaning after the water comes in doesn't involve replacing literally everything. The city is working on a remedy for the flooding issue, but that ain't happening anytime soon. 

The building is a brick 3 or 4 story building in a small downtown area, and has residential on all floors except the commercial ground level. People continue living upstairs through these floods, so I assume the building and it's foundation are ok with the water. I'll confirm this of course. But if so, is there a way to build floors and interior walls such that say 6-12 inches of water would not require replacement?

I'm thinking like some sort of sealed concrete floor with vinyl or plastic products for the bottom half of walls. Maybe metal or plastic wall studs or something. Interior doors made out of something like trex decking. Drop all power outlets and other cords from the ceiling, nothing below 4 ft on the walls. etc. There have to be other spaces in the world with a similar issue. What can be done?

How well do you know your insurance agent?

Stilts?

How much space are you looking at?  Intended use? 

One way to protect the walls would be to build them on top of a couple of rows of cider block.  

Dont. LOMA  certification is expensive. Flood insurance is expensive. I've done enough land surveying to see what flooding does to things to never, ever want anything in a flood plain. No. Barking. Way.

In reply to Appleseed :

Agreed.  A good friend bought a house in a flood plain. Her husband did a ton of renovation and upgrade work to it.  A couple of months ago they had "once in 100 year" rain storm that resulted in 6' of water in their basement.  It took every bit of restraint I had not to ask, "did you really think this was never going to happen?"

Nature always wins.

To be clear I would not be buying the building. I would only be renting the 1st floor space.

Flood plains are chronically behind in the US.  One in 100 year floods, and even one in 500 year floods are happening more and more frequently all over the place.  

Yeah, it typically gets 6-12" of water, but what happens when it gets hit with more than that?

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

To be clear I would not be buying the building. I would only be renting the 1st floor space.

 

And doing what?

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

To be clear I would not be buying the building. I would only be renting the 1st floor space.

 

And doing what?

Sorry, forgot that part!

I would be making a coworking space. A few small conference rooms, hot desk space, small coffee kitchen, some couches. 

So if I can make this fly, I would be providing the renovation labor (put not materials, capital improvements being responsibility of building owner), and I would be essentially re-leasing the space. If it can be designed such that there's not much damage and things can simply be cleaned out after a flood event, then I would be interested in that type of design. 

The city is planning on replacing the existing 2 ft diameter drain with a 4 ft diameter drain to remedy the water problem. But that is a 2 mile drain pipe and it goes under peoples houses or busy roads or both. It's not getting completed for a few years at least. My goal would be to be able to use the space with the full knowledge that it is probably going to flood. All tenants would be well briefed on this matter of course - if they don't already know. My target customers all are probably aware of the flooding in the building already because they live close by. 

Maybe if you treat the entire interior like a shower.  Tile halfway up the walls, no drywall, all hardie-board, etc.

I'd imagine that you would have to get a good enough deal on Rent that you can price your co-working space at a low enough price that tenents would be willing to deal with potential unplanned unavailability.  Example being they have an important meeting with a client in their snazzy co-working space and oh no! flooded can't do meeting there so move it to a competitors space.  

I'd be concerned that your "membership" fee would have to be low enough that your profits will be squeezed to much.  I'm also not sure how much the landlord will drop the rent.  Commercial real estate people seem to have an aversion to renting vacant spaces for anything less then what they think the market rate is.  We've had places local sit for YEARS and the landlords just keep raising the asking NNN rates despite the buildings being empty.   I won't be suprised if the landlord will just let it be vacant for 2 years until the city fixes the flooding problem or until a non-familiar with the area tenet comes along and rents without knowing.  Unless you've already negotiated this.  

Commercial development is a strange thing.  In my town there is a string of 3 modern "strip malls".  You know the kind with 4 parking spots per store that they shove a Chipotle and Starbucks in and some how that works.  Well 2 of the 3 unis are built and have all of 1 Tennant that has lasted more then a year.  So apparently the 9 available units aren't enough they are putting up the 3rd building.  I think my town has more available commercial retail space then is currently in use and there are 3 buildings under construction..   I mean I guess always with growth.    

My brothers dorm room in college used to flood. Anything that would normally go on the ground was elevated in some way - stilts, milk crates, etc., or else was thought of as 100% disposable. In a dorm room, that basically meant that the dresser and the fridge were on milk crates; the beds were on stilts, the desk was cheap and/or aluminium, and the chair was a Navy chair. 

That is basically how I would handle this if you consider doing anything there. 

FEMA is condemning buildings with multiple flood claims.  Also the insurance is going up, like over $8000/year for the buildings in flood zones they will insure.

The property owners are the big losers.  Few remedies are available.  FEMA "may" give a grant to raise a residence but you still need to park your cars at ground level.  

    Lots of times poor management of development converts an area that never flooded into an event that happens yearly or every few years.  Houston has multiple 60 year old neighborhoods with multiple floodings recently, but went over 50 year without flooding, because of all the people who sold grandpa's ranch to developers.  The additional run off load was not considered by greedy county officials who only saw more property tax revenue, not the consequences of haphazard development on previous development downstream of the new development.

You could raise the building and put a cinder block wall a few feet high right below the existing walls if  you really want to tackle it.  This is usually doable though people would have to be out of the building during the jack up period while the cinder block wall is being build.  Plus all the plumbing would have to be extended.  Possibly electrical as well depending upon the entry point/

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

I don't know... a lot of what could be done to make the space more "flood survivable" would make it less than ideal as an office space.  Personally, I really don't like working in an echo chamber of hard surfaces. 

Are you okay with basically trashing most of the furniture after each flood event? That sounds like a profit-eater to me. 

Dealing with the whiny tenant who ignored the "don't leave anything valuable on the floor in case it floods" rule and complains when their laptop got soaked doesn't sound like fun either...  

No way. 
 

If your business idea is any good, then find a better space to put it in. 
 

And briefing the tenants only gives them fodder to sue you later. You will be admitting and documenting that you were fully aware of the problems that existed that would eventually destroy their property. 
 

Find a better space. 

And no, you can't make a property "flood survivable". 
 

What would you do with electric wiring that got submerged?  Insulation?  
 

ANY cavity in a wall could contain vile contaminants. Floodwaters are NOT tap water. They are full of sewage, and dead animals, and toxic chemicals, and mold, mold, MOLD. 

There is no way your insurance company would find this acceptable.  

Are coworking spaces really a viable idea these days? The pandemic has shown us that if you have an internet connection you can essentially work from anywhere. I have a kitchen and couches. Why do I need your conference room when Zoom is a thing?

Also, run away from flood building.

In my opinion, there is going to be TONS of empty office space available very soon when companies don't renew their lease now that they've taught their force to work from home.  

Find different, drier space. 

I feel that on this space, every flood you will loose your customers, likely for good and then you have to recruit/convince new tenants. 

So I guess we're only sort of answering the question of "how to build space to be flood survivable" with the answer of "you can't". That's a fine enough answer, but forgive me if I prefer to press a little harder first. Yes I see it would not be as easy as building space with zero thought to it. Fine. What if it was your mom's basement, and she was refusing or didn't have the means to move? 

A few more thoughts on the matter:

1. I see this becoming a huge problem for MANY existing buildings in the world, as glaciers melt and sea level rises, and we keep refusing to move cities uphill. As with any challenge, there is a solution, but is it worth the time and effort - it may or may not be. Part of the exercise of me building this space would be to start getting insight into how to help all those other properties that are soon going to be in a similar boat (that's a painful pun). The people who figure out how to use existing buildings that have flood problems a few days a year cheaper than knocking the buildings down and building elsewhere are going to be in high demand. 

2. I actually think demand for coworking space will rise, as more and more people work from home. Many people want the social aspect of an office. If instead of being a 30 minute drive to your employer, what if you could walk/bike 10 minutes or less to the local office? Maybe you don't go every day, and it may not be for every worker. But I think a LOT of people are going to start wanting to get out of their house while they work. I think coworking space will be one of the major replacements to the commercial leases lost by companies. 

3. The whole idea is really predicated on the fact that the space in the building is worthless right now, due to the flooding issue. I would absolutely not be paying anywhere close to what I would pay for a similar dry space. If the landlord insists on charging 'dry' prices. The space will continue to revenue $0/month. 

4. I'm also a big fan of our little downtown area. Everyone hates to see space sit empty for years, especially if it could be used for something. 

Build from the top down. IF the ceilings of the space can support the load.

Standing desks, preferably suspended from the ceiling. Essentially, build an office with cubicles, but from the top down instead of the floor up. Not easily done in pre-existing buildings.

Dig in extra drainage, including backups at different height. 

The real answer is rebuilding the building. Not something you can easily do a a renter, and made even harder by there being living space above it already. 

You're still not going to fix the mold issues, the contaminants from the flood waters, and any idiot that doesn't listen and leaves stuff on the ground who will then hold the person they'd renting from accountable.

The only feasible answer is to move. Period. Even if it were financially doable to build better for it, the liability in our litigious as hell society is a non starter. The first person with allergies who steps foot in the place will wind up owning it from lawsuits whether they were warned or not. 

Else you risk winding up like the trailer parks in the south, get flooded out every single year by hurricanes, and drag their tailors back to the same place thinking "it only happens a few days a year". 

I also think the demand for coworking spaces could be quelled with better cell phone and internet access. Why be confined to an office at all if you could be in a park, or on a boat, or anywhere but a claustrophobic corporate maze, but I despise the idea of working in an office period.

I'll start with agreeing with others here and say run away.  However, if you're looking to not run away, to accomplish what you're describing, you basically need to turn the lower 4 ft of that building into a swimming pool.  Meaning there can be no place for water and it's inhabitants to hide after the flooding receeds.  So essentially solid concrete from outside face to inside wall.  Aluminum or stainless doors and frames sealed imperviously to the walls.  Absolutely no way for moisture to wick or creep to anything not impervious. 

Keep in mind that if anything you cant touch with your finger tip gets at all damp, you'll have to rip it all out and start over.

In reply to Sidewayze :

That's impossible. 
 

Concrete is porous. It still has cavities and voids. 
 

Aluminum door and frames are hollow. The void inside will be contaminated. 

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

As always, I admire your intelligence, creativity, and tenacity. 
 

If the rent is free, it's much too much. No business can survive with a building that has known health hazards they ignore. 

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Maybe an art gallery?  Everything on the walls. Nothing of any value on the floor.

Otherwise, Paul's comments are hard to ignore.  I see a lot of risk with little to no reward... if your main desire is to just not see the place empty, then maybe write up your idea, send it to the landlord and let them do it.