The property I bought last year has one major shortcoming; it has a 1-car garage and no real place to add more garage space.
My neighbor who just bought beside me seems to basically come home to sleep so I'm hoping she will be open to my idea. Take a look at the pics below. My property is the red, hers is the blue. I want to propose to her that I buy the green square so I can build another garage. Is that even possible? Is it stupid? How do I research it?
I have nothing to contribute other than I love that you live on Berkley St.
Will the size of the green square allow for a garage? I know here a permanent structure has to be a certain distance from the property line, but can't recall the specific amount.
As ECM mentioned, set-back rules may be an issue.
I won't say it's the craziest idea anyone on this forum has thought of, but it's up there. But as someone who also lives on a "garage limited" plot, I can appreciate the out-of-the-box thinking.
Research is pretty simple - you go to your local twp office and ask. Be prepared for a confused look as your initial answer.
A Lot Line Adjustment is probably what you are looking for. I would start by talking to the city or county (depending on what jurisdiction it is in) about whether it would be allowed and if so what would be involved. As long as subtracting the area of the green square from the blue one wont put the total area of the parcel below the minimum allowed by the zoning there is a good change it would work though. Most likely a garage will have to be at least 5 feet from the property lines, maybe more.
You mention “she” and not much of a social life. There may be an opportunity to get your garage at no cost to you as well as something more......
Really creative idea!
I have a feeling this isn't going to go well for you, unfortunately.
As mentioned...start with the City you live in and tell them what you have in mind (probably the Planning and Zoning department or whatever you call it in PA). They'll likely shoot you down right quick ;).
If it can be done...you may find that it's not worth doing (it will likely involve surveys, minor subdivisions, and any number of revenue streams for the municipality).
I am quite interested in what you learn, though.
I'm sure it can be so very different from one place to another. I just can't imagine that east of me it would be any LESS stringent than it is here.
You may need to extend the green square to be a rectangle all the way to Fairfield St.
In the occasion that Fairfield St needs to be repaved, the tax costs per owner on Fairfield St is often determined by linear footage of curbside you own on the street.
I would say to expect resistance from whatever municipal office. Also expect resistance from the two land owners who will butt up to this proposed garage.
As others have said, check zoning for minimum setbacks and minimum lot size, that info can usually be found online or talk with someone in the zoning office.
If everyone ok's it, you are going to have to hire a surveyor to create new property plats for both parcels. It won't be cheap.
It would probably be easier to expand your existing garage across the width of your back yard, although I can see the distance between the back of the house and the garage would be tight.
Actually, looking at the existing garages I’m not sure The lot line will be an issue.
Probably easier and cheaper to move. Though I would have a reluctance to abandon a prime address on Berkley Street.
Alternatively, you could offer her a straight-up trade. Your house for hers. Maybe you kick in some cash if your property is assessed for less than hers.
In reply to Curtis : Here’s what’s involved in my location. Because the city is dealing with multimillion dollar properties and the attending big egos ( and more than a few litigious lawyers ) it’s about as restrictive as it gets.
Set back is 10 feet but easements from that rule are possible. To find out what your set backs are drive around your neighborhood and estimate about what most set backs are. Usually side and back set backs are different from front setbacks. ( front usually means the street side in our case it’s the lake side ) our front set back is 100 feet from the lake.
You may not need to buy your neighbors property simply purchase a set back easement. Then you could build right up to the property line and she grants you the setback easement. ( (a lot cheaper and easier to get)
I know a lot about these sorts of deals but the first thing to do is get on a friendly basis with your neighbor. Bring over a pie you baked invite her to a neighborhood bar-b-que etc
more to follow
She controls what your choices are as far as easement or sale.
Now it’s time to figure out what you can afford. First what does property sell for? Are there any empty residential lots* for sale around there? If so take the square foot size of the property and divide it by the asking price. Now you have an idea of what that piece of property you were thinking of buying should list for.
* residential not commercial
Remember she may not want to sell ( or she may be eager ) that’s why you need to get to know her on a friendly basis before you try to conduct business.
A rough rule of thumb is an easement grant is worth 20% of a land sale. ( very rough ) Remember she still owns the land and can plant or do anything except build on that piece ( or use that piece to meet set back requirements)
Friendly neighbors have been known to sign away rights as a favor while hostile neighbors may do everything in their power to obstruct you.
There are more things you need to do but that’s the first steps. Things like meet requirements as far as filing a notice of easement or sale ( if she can sell, chances are a mortgage holder will not look kindly on the decrease of property value. So that must be dealt with).
Easy enough to get a description of the property to buy and prepare deed, etc. I think your bigger issue is gonna be setback lines, zoning etc with regard to neighbor south (behind) you.
mtn said:Actually, looking at the existing garages I’m not sure The lot line will be an issue.
Around here, setback requirements changed over the years. In the case of Curtis's neighborhood I expect you could not build something today that close to a property line. But like I say...things are different everywhere.
Even before going to the city I'd ask the neighbor - if she says no, the whole thing is a non-starter anyway.
On the other hand if all she does is come home to sleep, she doesn't need a lot that big. Maybe you could swap houses with her.
ClemSparks said:I have a feeling this isn't going to go well for you, unfortunately.
As mentioned...start with the City you live in and tell them what you have in mind (probably the Planning and Zoning department or whatever you call it in PA). They'll likely shoot you down right quick ;).
If it can be done...you may find that it's not worth doing (it will likely involve surveys, minor subdivisions, and any number of revenue streams for the municipality).
I am quite interested in what you learn, though.
I'm sure it can be so very different from one place to another. I just can't imagine that east of me it would be any LESS stringent than it is here.
90% of laws that affect people are local laws, not Federal or state. It’s amazing how easy it is to change those. I live in the richest community in my state filled with powerful people and giant size ego’s
It cost me $2.00 yep, 2 bucks to file for mayor. Then a neighbor offered me a couple hundred dollars for campaign signs and another paid for some adds in the local paper.
Before I decided to run I interviewed the city manager to get a copy of the city books ( Which were easy to understand ) The short time I did that research was all I had to do. Only big cities have political parties endorsement for candidates. Most suburbs and smaller cites simply have candidates.
I went to one meeting of the league of women voters and made a short 5 minute speech about my goals and why I wanted to run. Answered a few power puff questions and seemed to be warmly received.
Informally those I spoke to were eager to have me and said they would support me. I was unopposed. However my prime reason for running was solved a little more than a month before the election and instead of doing the needed door to door campaigning I stopped.
That caused a previous council member to spend her two dollars to run. I’m glad she did because she made enough phone calls and got the required support to get elected.
She made a good mayor and I’m glad she ran. The point of all of this is if you don’t like things it’s easy to change them if you bother.
Considered the possibility that there's an operational or unused septic system in the proposed annex location?
Your current lot is really long, you can't build another garage in front of your house along your driveway?
In reply to rustybugkiller :
If there's an opportunity for getting laid, you can bet that Curtis has already considered it.
ClemSparks said:mtn said:Actually, looking at the existing garages I’m not sure The lot line will be an issue.
Around here, setback requirements changed over the years. In the case of Curtis's neighborhood I expect you could not build something today that close to a property line. But like I say...things are different everywhere.
There are always way around the rules if you look. An easement variance is a normal event because the law in favor of them encourages cities to be flexible.
The law I’m referring to is called undue hardship in most locations. But that varies. The principle is that many homes were built or lots plotted long before the rules were written. As a home owner you are actually allowed to use your property unless there is a clear reason why not.
The rule or rules preventing you must serve a greater good than the hardship the rules impose on you. That exception doesn’t work in preplanned or gated communities but it does especially when there is a large disparity of the age/ size/ or location of homes. for example, my home has to sit back 100 feet from the lake. As do all my neighbors, except my next door neighbor. He is less than 40 feet away because his house was built prior to the rules. Thus he’s grandfathered in.
I take advantage of that exception too because I’m about 3 feet from the property line to the north instead of the required 10 feet, grandfather clause.
I also have a wide long driveway other neighbors don’t and etc.
I was able to use the hardship clause to make my house bigger and a few other perks. In spite of my city having the most restrictive building code around.
docwyte said:Your current lot is really long, you can't build another garage in front of your house along your driveway?
Yes and no. The lot is 50' wide. Side setbacks are 5' from one side and 25' from the other, meaning I could only have a 20' deep garage. I thought about putting it up near the street, but I'm concerned that it will make the property ugly and actually decrease its value. It would also only be a 20' wide garage.
Setbacks from property lines are a little hazy around here, so the township does allow some bending of rules based on individual cases. For instance, The setbacks from the rear are 10' and front are 20', but I have been verbally told that applies to the extents of the property. For instance, if I procured that little green square and its 25' wide, I could build a garage that is 24'-11" wide because the setbacks apply to the street edge and the rear of the property. The garage would conform to setbacks even if they were tight up against the line. At least that is what I was verbally told
I also thought about seeing if she would rent me her garage, but it is really a terrible structure with next to no ceiling height. My truck wouldn't fit unless I took off the cap, and even then I wouldn't even be able to jack it up for a brake job. Still a possibility.
I'll have to look into the easement variance. My setbacks would cause my garage to be only 20' wide or deep, but 24' would be more logical.
It's usually not terribly hard to get a variance, depending on the property.
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