Buying American

In reply to jere:

Much better tone, thank you. The government gave those tax breaks to get more people to donate money to charities. It helps, and it isn't so much that iffy. Chances are, that wealthy person will most likely spend that extra 15k he is saving which is just that much more into the economy.

We use a lot of 11-14% MN steel at work, and the good stuff comes from China. It burns cleaner with a laser, welds better, and has a better surface. The bad stuff comes from France. Full of impurities with heavy surface scale that fights a laser every inch of the way.

We just completed our first full machine, the Metcast M28 airless shot blaster. It was assembled in New Berlin, Wisconsin, with 90%+ of the parts being sourced or manufactured within a 100 mile radius of our shop. Pretty proud to say that. Yeah, the boss stuck a giant American flag on the shot hopper with the words "Proudly made in the USA" underneath it. Pretty awesome. And we can build it better and sell it cheaper than our global-sourcing competition (who I used to work for)

I buy on value. Quality, Cost, Service.. They all play into the value equation. I do not buy american blindly, however personally I'd love to have a larger manufacturing base in the US because that is my chosen career path. As It stands now, I'll probably have to do some time outside the country running some operations in Asia for a bit..

I have a friend who buys american no matter what.. A great deal of the time he overpays for a product that provides no increase in value over a foreign made product.. Recently he just purchased a $700 toilet for his house. I asked him why... He says... Made in America.. I say... You poop in it and a $100 made in china one works just as well.

93gsxturbo wrote: We use a lot of 11-14% MN steel at work, and the good stuff comes from China. It burns cleaner with a laser, welds better, and has a better surface. The bad stuff comes from France. Full of impurities with heavy surface scale that fights a laser every inch of the way. We just completed our first full machine, the Metcast M28 airless shot blaster. It was assembled in New Berlin, Wisconsin, with 90%+ of the parts being sourced or manufactured within a 100 mile radius of our shop. Pretty proud to say that. Yeah, the boss stuck a giant American flag on the shot hopper with the words "Proudly made in the USA" underneath it. Pretty awesome. And we can build it better and sell it cheaper than our global-sourcing competition (who I used to work for)

Kudos to you for building a good product in America... Gotta love small businesses.

yamaha wrote: In reply to jere: Much better tone, thank you. The government gave those tax breaks to get more people to donate money to charities. It helps, and it isn't so much that iffy. Chances are, that wealthy person will most likely spend that extra 15k he is saving which is just that much more into the economy.

Weren't you supposed to make my head explode or something...

The government gave those tax breaks to help get re elected the charities come second. When congress gives the rich guy a tax break, next election he get their campaign money, and money is what it takes to win an election more or less. Another thing rich people tend to use their money to make more money or else just invest it in stocks were it just sits. If they were spending what they were making the middle class wouldn't be turning into the lower class right now and the rich wouldn't be at new record numbers

jere wrote: Another thing rich people tend to use their money to make more money or else just invest it in stocks were it just sits.

I love it when folks don't realise that the same opportunities are available to them.

Yes, you too can invest and make money with your money.

Yes, you too can contribute to charities and get a tax credit.

It's not really that hard. I'm not rich by any means but I still manage to make smart decisions.

Invest you money, even if it's only $50.00 a month. Don't have $50.00 a month? Stop going to Starbucks.

Lots of folks are simply broke because they want to be.

In reply to Trans_Maro:

Now you say that you are not rich but you make smart decisions and you know the answers about investing money and tax breaks, so why aren't you rich? So you chose not to be is what you are saying...you just passed the opportunity up?

That's a nice cop out "broke because they want to be" but I don't see that as the case. I have bought stocks/mutual funds in the past, I had to cash them in. Emergencies come up that your plan doesn't account for. Life happens and there really isn't $50 a month. Even with those stocks saved up it wouldn't be good for much other than retirement supplement. I will try to spare you much of my story but the only time I have been to Starbucks is to apply for a job. There is a saying that goes something like " the rich get to the top on the backs of the poor" it's really a better fit for the way things are.

It's pretty easy to become "rich" (though your definition may vary). Don't spend all your friggin' money! We've become a society that does not value money in a healthy way. Nobody cares what something costs or how much debt it places them in, all they care about is "What will it cost me per month?". It's so much sexier to put 15% of your income into a new Escalade payment than into a mutual fund. Compound interest and investing is, well, boring. Nobody can see it nor be impressed by it. So we've got the Escalades, $200 sneakers, cell phones with 4 million 'apps', etc etc ad nauseum. People refuse to live within their means; I see it every day. They carry a $1000 deductible policy on a new KIA, and when it gets wrecked can't come up with the money for 3 months. They get a 8 year old car totaled and still owe twice what it's worth to the Buy Here Pay Here lot. And these are the people that hate the rich.

ddavidv said it for me.

I realise that bad stuff happens to folks. My family has been through bankrupcy because of means byond our control. We got out of it and learned a whole lot.

Wanna know why I'm not rich?

I don't have the drive that some of the rich folks do. I don't have it in me to work the long hours or go without a family or friends.

I also haven't had the "right place at the right time" thing happen to me which is a huge factor in being one of the lucky folks that has a chance to get "rich".

I'm rich in the fact that I don't covet what other folks have and that I've been fortunate enough to educate myself to make the decisions I have.

I dont' have "the answers" to investing. I've simply taken the time to educate myself before jumping in with both feet.

I came into the game late. I started saving and investing in my late-20's. If I had known what I could have if I started in my late teens, I'd be farther ahead by now.

I live a reasonable life, my wife's truck is a '96 and my car is a '95. I don't -need- a new car every five years so I don't buy one.

My house was built in 1975, I have a mortgage but the house will be mine eventually. I'm building equity and when I sell when I retire, there's some more retierment income.

I'm not rich, I'm an average working stiff who has to be careful with his money. I've got debt, all of it is from decisions I have made, some bad ones, some good ones.

The difference between you and I is the fact that I don't blame anyone for my situation or my decisions. I don't get angry because someone else had different opportunities than I did. That's life my friend, take it or leave it.

Jere, a really honest tip for your investing. Get yourself a copy of "personal finance for dummies" if you've had problems with investments in the past, it's a great starter book. After that move on to others. Educate yourself about your money and your financial situation. Don't buy stocks unless you can afford to lose a lot of money fast. Buy and hold, buy bond funds, gold and currencies and have a look at segregated funds.

I hate it when people group the rich together as if they are all thieves who have done nothing to earn their money. There are plenty of people who have gotten rich either through hard work or smarts (aka invention) (more likely a combination of both). Look at Bill Gates.

I used to try to buy American. No more.

I buy products that are a good value for my money. I don't mean cheap. I am very aware of build quality, environmental impact, sustainability, ethical issues like child labor, etc.

All of those things are part of the decisions I make.

Every single purchase I make is a ethical decision, and a compromise. And they ALL communicate a message.

I buy the best quality I can afford. If a company can't compete, I don't buy them. If it kills their company, good riddance. Step up, or get out of the way. Regardless of what country they are based in.

When a company thinks they can buy my loyalty with their politics, I look they other way. When a company thinks they can earn my respect with bumper stickers designed to appeal to my religious views or my patriotism and mask the poor quality of their service, I buy elsewhere. If a company takes my money but offers an inferior quality product, I make sure to never buy from them again.

Used to be I would never buy a Kia. Right now, I would consider it. Strongly.

In reply to ddavidv: That's what they call hood rich the Escalades and $200 sneakers part but you hit the nail on the head. Hate the rich or not our society doesn't know needs from wants, love for a person from a new piece of plastic from the store. That's part of why I think a big change to our country would get the average joe back on track (that and the crooked capitalist/republic government could use an overhaul). Having to deal with a problem first hand, having just enough money to get by,(without the Iphones and Esclades) would make everyone a little smarter and relearn the value of the dollar. Maybe back to the time when the average person cooks their own food, passes a business or trade down through the family, or maybe just when everything we owned wasn't disposable easily replaced at Walmart. Before that can happen there are bigger problems.

Right now I see a bigger problem (at least to the American economy) that is the people/businesses selling those cars that put unknowing people into all that debt. They operate with no regard for their customers' well being. They only want to make money from them, climb up on their backs and use them for all they are worth. It's not even the car salesmen or the auto industry that are the problem the financial agencies are the big crooks here. People who make money without providing a service and gamble anyone's lively hood they can get a hold of.

Can anyone do this once they get their job at a big bank sure. Does that mean they should morally or even legally, when the result is a collapsing economy?

In reply to Trans_Maro: Thanks for the investing tips they all seem like sound advise. At the time I didn't have any problems with the investments (walmart stock doubled my money in 3 years right through 9/11 ) my money problems came with life.

You sound like average working joe that I would like to see the in a better place. Careful with your money and doing the best you can for your future. I think you might have experienced some of the problems that banks are making for people. War debt and shady bank loans are what put the US in the recession. I don't look at it as blaming someone, just looking at what the problems are and what needs to be fixed. Bad banking practices and government that is there to make money first and lead second.

In reply to jere:

I don't know how your employment situation works but this might help as well.

I'm self employed, the first year that I stepped into being my own boss, I tooks someones advice and hired an accountant.

When I was an employee, I did my own tax return, simple return, no problem.

When I became self-employed, I was making the same money but thanks to a great accountant, he cut my taxes almost in half, well worth the fees for his services.

There are greater deductions for self employed people but he improved on the basics as well.

I'm still digging myself out of a bunch of debt I generated years ago, it's slow but I'm chipping away at it.

Two thing that helped me out huge were:

Carrying cash instead of using plastic, it's easier to see when you're out of money.

Starting a side business to pay for the hobby. My weekday paycheque pays the house, the bills and the debt. My weekend parts selling business pays for the car habit.

My hobby never taps into my paycheque, if there's no play money in the account, I don't make purchases.

Shawn

SVreX wrote: I used to try to buy American. No more. I buy products that are a good value for my money. I don't mean cheap. I am very aware of build quality, environmental impact, sustainability, ethical issues like child labor, etc. All of those things are part of the decisions I make. Every single purchase I make is a ethical decision, and a compromise. And they ALL communicate a message. I buy the best quality I can afford. If a company can't compete, I don't buy them. If it kills their company, good riddance. Step up, or get out of the way. Regardless of what country they are based in. When a company thinks they can buy my loyalty with their politics, I look they other way. When a company thinks they can earn my respect with bumper stickers designed to appeal to my religious views or my patriotism and mask the poor quality of their service, I buy elsewhere. If a company takes my money but offers an inferior quality product, I make sure to never buy from them again. Used to be I would never buy a Kia. Right now, I would consider it. Strongly.

Well said. I fully agree. A company needs to walk the talk, for me to buy into their values.

Trans_Maro wrote: Invest you money, even if it's only $50.00 a month. Don't have $50.00 a month? Stop going to Starbucks.

this is just one of my pet peeves .... I hear folk whining all the time about how little money they have ... how much debt they have ... how they can't buy gas/groceries/fuel oil .... etc ... but they eat at MickyD's every day, drink Starbucks every morning .....

sure a bucket of Maxwell House can cost me as much as $10 -12 ... but it'll last me at least a month, if not more ... how soon would that same $10 be used up at Starbucks ?

wbjones wrote:

Trans_Maro wrote: Invest you money, even if it's only $50.00 a month. Don't have $50.00 a month? Stop going to Starbucks.

this is just one of my pet peeves .... I hear folk whining all the time about how little money they have ... how much debt they have ... how they can't buy gas/groceries/fuel oil .... etc ... but they eat at MickyD's every day, drink Starbucks every morning ..... sure a bucket of Maxwell House can cost me as much as $10 -12 ... but it'll last me at least a month, if not more ... how soon would that same $10 be used up at Starbucks ?

So many people just don't see this...

If you watch TV just for a short time, all the ads for whatever insinuate that you must have a certain 'profile' to get anywhere in life. So people who really can't afford it suck that crap up, they rush to buy the current fashion accessory car/smart phone/whatever then wonder why their financial lives explode in their faces.