Caller ID experts, question about how it works with

Looking for experts that can tell me if 911 was called by a forged caller ID, would the get the name and address that belongs to the forged address or the true caller. I assume the latter, but could be wrong.

No, I am not going into the swatting business, just wonder if the tech is there to see the real origin of a call so I know if the government is as inept as I think, or if they really cant do anything about all the scam calls swindling Americans out of millions.

I get 8-10 voice mail hang ups a day from scammers that wait for my VM to start recording before hanging up, and more calls that hang up b4 vm starts, thats just my home phone, get them on my work desk phone and cell too. This is getting old and every couple years our elected officials call it fixed, get in front of the camera, issue press releases. See what I did for you......

I am also ticked by the US companies that hire overseas companies  to make the calls under the guise they are screeners.to get around the do not call list. When called out, they stated I asked for the call by filling out a web form, hmmm why do they need the call screeners to make the call then.

Anyway, notice less call warranty calls.... I have had more than actual conversation with the FTC lawyer that lead that one. Yep over seas screener, got to the real company and after leading them on for a while asked who the underwriter of the policy was. Rinse repeat, got couple others, come to find out same parent company... Since the news broke on that the auto warranty calls have gone from 3-4 a week for me to 1 or two a month.  Cant tell if they are the same company as they drop when I get to the underwriter question...

PS: I have written my senators and congressmen, telling them to stop providing financial aid to countries that cant shut down this illegal activity.

Wow, did I stump the forum ?

They would get the address of the forged call but to be honest most of the post was too much like yelling at clouds for me.  By you answering and then listening to them talk you made a list of active mark.  They sell those phone list to other scammers.  So you actually caused most of the problem yourself.  I don't get those calls because I just hang up as soon as it starts.

There are a lot of antiquated technologies forming the base of the phone system, spread over thousands of installations. It's not the monolithic creation you may think it is. Caller ID is basically unverified. I'm pretty sure the 911 address is tied to the number, so it won't identify if the call is coming from a different physical location. There's more info in how the 911 system works in this article:
https://www.wired.com/2014/08/how-hackers-could-mess-with-911/

I think "the government is inept" is way too simple a diagnosis. Scammers are not stupid and they're constantly finding workarounds and using systems in ways they're not supposed to and the system designers never anticipated. There's nothing new about this.

The forged caller ID scammers, unfortunately, are breaking telephones for everyone. You either never answer your phone again - accepting that you might miss calls you really actually want to get - or you deal with the fact that some calls are bogus.

I'm just impressed you only get 8-10 a day.  I've had days with 30 or more.  They're auto-rejected.

I haven't had a home phone since 2001.  They can call that one all they want  :)

From what I understand, 911 has access to a typical database.  The name of the game is speed.  Their screen populates with information vomit, but they have to verify everything.  I suppose if someone spoofs your number and calls 911, it would populate with your phone number and any data that pops up about you, but it also calls the nearest dispatch, not your dispatch.  It also shows cell tower pings and general location.

I guess it's kinda like if I called you and said, "hi, this is Dua Lipa and I want to touch your hootus."  It's information, but my deep voice, the implausible nature of the proposal, and the fact that she doesn't have your number means you flag it as fake right away.  If they spoof your number and call 911, it won't add up and they will realize they need different information than what's on the screen.

Let me ask my buddy who is a retired cop and did some stints at dispatch when he got injured.  Hopefully more soon.

Keith Tanner said:

There are a lot of antiquated technologies forming the base of the phone system, spread over thousands of installations. It's not the monolithic creation you may think it is. Caller ID is basically unverified. I'm pretty sure the 911 address is tied to the number, so it won't identify if the call is coming from a different physical location. There's more info in how the 911 system works in this article:
https://www.wired.com/2014/08/how-hackers-could-mess-with-911/

I think "the government is inept" is way too simple a diagnosis. Scammers are not stupid and they're constantly finding workarounds and using systems in ways they're not supposed to and the system designers never anticipated. There's nothing new about this.

The forged caller ID scammers, unfortunately, are breaking telephones for everyone. You either never answer your phone again - accepting that you might miss calls you really actually want to get - or you deal with the fact that some calls are bogus.

As long as I can still make long distance calls with my whistle...

My understanding is that the protocol for caller ID could be locked down by the telcos, but isn't because junk calls are so lucrative. (Yes, conjecture, though the summary fix is "don't allow the caller to provide their own ID info")

Specifically, it sounds more or less like caller ID defaults to showing whatever the telephony system can look up about the caller, but the caller can provide whatever info they want and that will be used instead...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller_ID_spoofing

I've just been crossing my fingers that since, as Keith notes, this issue is basically breaking telephony, that the businesses who aren't scammers will eventually pressure the telcos into fixing it. I know most calls to me are games of phone tag with attendant scheduling delays.

My (admittedly old) knowledge is that spoofing caller id is not difficult, and the receiver is going to get the info of the spoofed number, not where the call came from (likely an IP call anyway, not from a legit number).  Telcos, if they work together on handoffs between networks, should be able to determine if a call is being spoofed, but that would require all of them working in concert, which would never happen, unless required to by law.  Hell, when I was in telecom, the company I worked for would strip ANI ( caller id info), and hand off the call to another provider as a tactic to reduce the amount local telephone companies could charge for completing the call, due to differences in rates for in state and out of state calls.

The industry calls it Shaken/Stir.  

The outgoing FFC Chairman, Pai dragged his feet on this one.  He did "allow" telecoms to reduce robocalls but he did not "require" them to reduce.   Verizon has been one of the worst for actually doing anything about it.  

A deep topic with no short answer.  Maybe follow this FCC guide to reducing unwanted calls via contacting your carrier

I think Keith covered it well. It's pretty easy to fake a caller ID and it's not solved anywhere until it's solved everywhere - most of the faking happens on sketchy 3rd-world telecoms companies that the rest of the system has to either trust or cut off completely. And there are many of them.

A great way to cut down the volume of these calls is to waste the scammers' time. Pretend to be a confused old person and give fake credit card numbers after much fumbling and searching and long stories. When you do this, the scam operation will stop calling you and share your number with other operations as a known time-waster, doing this massively damages their productivity. This can dramatically reduce spam call volume within a day and it seems to last weeks or months.

GameboyRMH said:

I think Keith covered it well. It's pretty easy to fake a caller ID and it's not solved anywhere until it's solved everywhere - most of the faking happens on sketchy 3rd-world telecoms companies that the rest of the system has to either trust or cut off completely. And there are many of them.

There is another option, too - they can at least check the phone number, and if the call is coming from a US number, but being handed off by a foreign telco (or ISP), either strip the number off so it shows up without one, or have some sort of spam alert.  Of course, this probably means a few US companies will be formed to be able to "originate" the call, but at least they'll be a lot easier to trace/prosecute.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm just impressed you only get 8-10 a day.  I've had days with 30 or more.  They're auto-rejected

My provider auto rejects some, probably most. 8-10 get through and go to my VM.  My provider also had a automated time waster for suspected spam callers. My Dr.s office was a flagged as a spammer. When they went to check on me after I bumped my head in turn 1 at Loudon, they went to the automated time waster and thought I was loosing it and called everyone on my emergency list (not a lot of fun having to tell a lot of people I was racing again that did not need to know) . Also my parents number was forged and used by a spam caller. Due to the high number of call from their forged number, their number was on the same list and when they tried to call l me they went to the time waster and through here was something wrong with phones and their service as they kept getting an old guy in England with dementia and could not get through to me.

Anyway, I tried the don't answer for months, I put the "this number is not in service message", tones and all, on my outgoing message, also for months, unplugged totally when not home, no effect. At least I get some joy asking "Hows your mom" and listening to their insults after or the immediate hang up, or giving them fake credit card numbers and them telling me top roll it up and shove it where the sun does not shine.

I will gladly give up the slight joy if they would just stop calling,

Maybe I will try forwarding my number to my state senators offices and see how that goes.

lrrs said:  My provider also had a automated time waster for suspected spam callers.

 Great to hear that it's not just amateurs sending scammers to Lenny anymore