Canadians (Ontario), comments from an adopted Yankee on your country/province.

I think most people here know I’m, an Ex-Pat Brit and self-styled adopted Yankee who’s been here over 20 years. I haven’t spent a ton of time in your country. Two weeks’ vacation in BC and cumulatively probably three – four week in various parts of Ontario over the years. I’ve just got back from a weekends camping in the Ontario peninsular staying in Port Burwell Provincial park and going up to Stratford on Saturday for the Shakespeare festival. I have some comments/questions.

Let’s start with the negatives as there are very few.
What the berk is it with your speed limits? I mean really? Long long straight two lane roads with open site lines and fields on each side. It’s mile after mile, I mean kilometer after Kilometer of 80km/h speed limit (49mph for the rest of us). And then if you get a couple of farm houses and an intersection it drops to 60km/h (37mph) Then if you get an actual settlement it drops to 50km/h. What’s worse is you all seem to be unnaturally addicted to staying close to the speed limit. If you were over the border in Michigan everyone would be blasting down the country roads 20mph over the already higher posted limits. It took 1h15m to get up to Stratford which I swear would have been a 50min trip in the states without reckless driving.
I’d like to bitch about McHortens or Timdonalds or whatever they are called. Really, a small town of a couple of thousand people needs three of these hell holes? I can’t really bitch though as over the boarder we do crap food to the max with the crumbling arches and Burger Krap or Taco diarrhea etc. so I really can’t bitch.

And that’s it. Negatives over.

The positives. You guys really really take pride in your country. I don’t mean this in the bible bashing flag waving ‘Merica berkeley yeah way. I mean actual pride. Everything is immaculate. It’s not just the roads, which suffering the same weather and trucks as Michigan are all in perfect order compared to our third world rally stages we call roads. But every little village, farm build etc. All the houses are always immaculate. There’s no ‘berkeley you’ I can park a rusting hulk in my side yard on bricks with weeds growing window high all around. Even the modest housing seems to be really well kept. Not everyone has money, but it seems everyone keeps up what they have. Weeds and bushes are all nicely trimmed. Everything is neat around all the farms. There’s virtually no litter. Gravel drives and shoulders are always clear of weeks. People obviously weed whack around building and edges. It always amazes me how clean everything is. We passed an obviously long abandoned old greenhouse. You know the type, cinder block wall up to about three feet. Another three feet of glass side then a peak roof. It had to be 100’ long. Yes there were some broken pains, but they had all been removed so there were no cracked pains or jagged bits of glass left sticking out. Yes the cinder block paint was faded, but it was all kept tidy, freshly cut and weed whacked all around. It looked old, not an eye sore. You also don’t seem to suffer from the urban sprawl we have in the states either, there seems to be clearer demarcations between cities and the country side, not mile after mile of thinning out strip malls where one closes so they leave it empty and build a new one next door. What is it about your psyche that seems to be more neat and tidy. It’s a serious question. It bugs me in so many places in our beautiful state and country that there is so much blight and people seem to feel entitled to berkeley things up and make a mess everywhere. I’d love to know why you seem to have so much civic pride and we over here seem to take pride in doing what we want and berkeley the rest of you.

Note. This not an observation made on just Michigan or one weekend in Ontario. As I said I’ve been going in and out of Canada over the last 22 years, I’ve visited most of Ontario between Windsor and Toronto plus North of Sault St. Marie to Terrace bay. I’ve also travelled 37 or 38 of the US States. Unfortunately living up to negative stereotypes West Virginia seems to be the worst for dilapidation, trucks in the yard, broken coke machines and rotting couches on falling down porches. But outside of wealthy and tourist areas, I’ve never seen such consistent well maintained properties and upkeep as Ontario.

Not trying to offend anyone here in the US, but I’m really impressed whenever I go to Canada/Ontario..

If you want to go fast, get on the 401. The back roads are where people live

Re: Speed Limits - they are kept artificially low for revenue generation and I am not joking! I know a few MTO Design Engineers and they have confirmed that all of our highways are in fact designed for 20 km/h over the limit. The OPP is a huge source of revenue for the province. Normally you can get away with 20 km/h over the posted limit outside of cities.

Re Tim Hortons - I am pretty sure their business strategy is to squeeze everyone else out of the market by putting one on every street corner.

Re - the positives - we like things looking good - glad you noticed.

Long story short, Canadians are more collectivist-minded than Americans, and therefore place more importance on taking care of common(ly visible) resources. The source of this cultural difference goes all the way back to the US being founded on a distrust of government and later forming a "rugged individualist" philosophy.

To a Canadian, keeping a public space clean or even keeping your own property clean and tidy is a public service that benefits everyone. To an American, performing this kind of "public service" simply out of the goodness of your heart is a selfless act of charity at best or a wasted effort that enables freeloaders at worst. It's borderline-offensive to individualist thinking. Everyone is only concerned with their own little fort, and a problem isn't a problem until it crosses their fence. So the line of thinking goes that if everyone is happy with their own property then there's no problem. You keep your place as clean as you see fit. But, some people are happy with rotting couches on collapsing porches etc. They're willing to work together to the extent of preventing obvious health hazards from forming, but that's about it.

Keep in mind though that this cleanliness is not always voluntary. My grandmother used to live in a historic neighborhood, and there are a million rules about everything, especially parking, to keep the place looking cute and clean and historic. If she wasn't into gardening as a hobby and had owned a car at any point since the 80s it might've been impractical to live there.

Also it's funny that as a response to people giving a damn what they eat these days, McD's in the US went downmarket to sell to people who can't afford to be too picky about what they eat, while McD's in Canada went upmarket, trying to become a bargain-bin Starbucks.

Keith Tanner wrote: If you want to go fast, get on the 401. The back roads are where people live

Nope 401 and 402 you guys really push it. People were doing, shock, horror, gasp, 75, 76 even 77 and 78mph!!!! That's an 85mph road in Miching...If the cops are around, other wise we speed up.

Tim Hurtin's, Timmy Ho's, Horny Tim's etc are definitely a curiosity you don't see elsewhere.

Seeing Terrace Bay mentioned on here gives me a smile. I grew up in Thunder Bay (and I'm back), worked in Red Rock. Been to and through Terrace a LOT.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: If you want to go fast, get on the 401. The back roads are where people live

Nope 401 and 402 you guys really push it. People were doing, shock, horror, gasp, 75, 76 even 77 and 78mph!!!! That's an 85mph road in Miching...If the cops are around, other wise we speed up.

You know in Ontario at least, if you're caught doing 50kph over, you're automatically charged with "stunt driving" and then the justice system will nuke you from orbit (can't remember all the details now, but there's stuff about "car confiscation"...it's almost as severe as being charged with drunk driving, and worse than being caught with a loose baby roaming in the car!)

I worked for a Canadian-owned company for awhile. After visiting Toronto a couple of times (once for a 6 week stay) and a few other places in Canada, I could never understand why the Canadian ex-pats in the company were so anxious to stay in the States. And why those in Canada were clamoring for a position in the US company so they could stay. Some cited the high taxes and others the long winters, but, boy, you couldn't drag 'em back for nuthin'. Many changed citizenship and even stayed when the company was sold to a US firm, even when it became necessary to find a job with another company. Now, this was in North Carolina which is a great place to live, but still.

GameboyRMH wrote: You know in Ontario at least, if you're caught doing 50kph over, you're automatically charged with "stunt driving" and then the justice system will nuke you from orbit (can't remember all the details now, but there's stuff about "car confiscation"...it's almost as severe as being charged with drunk driving, and worse than being caught with a loose baby roaming in the car!)

Hmm, it's not my car, it's my company car with full coverage in both countries for anyone to drive......I wonder

MAx speed limit on the 401 or 402 is 120ks. 50 over is 170 That's 105mph. Not that I've ever done that, let alone up hill in Colorado with a trailer, but I've seen plenty of people doing that speed in this country.

Things have changed, then. I used to run up and down the 401 between Ottawa and London, and the average cruising speed was 80-85 mph. One of the US car magazines called the 401 "Canada's Mulsanne straight" in the 90's.

If you're willing to pay the tolls, the 407 ETR is empty on weekends. That's when you see twin-turbo Gallardos dicing it up with strectched, turboed Hayabusas with Nitrous. It's also where my dad maxed-out his Echo. It hit 160 km/h before it hit the limiter.

G_Body_Man wrote: It's also where my dad maxed-out his Echo. It hit 160 km/h before it hit the limiter.

...which probably took him halfway across the province with his foot matted and rocking back and forth in the driver's seat.

The 50km/h-over law in Ontario is an automatic license suspension, on the spot vehicle impound (with potential for crushing), and up to a $10k fine (about US$7500).

Average cruising speed on the 407 seems to be 135km/h or so, cops don't bother you unless you stand out. 401, cruising seems to be 120-125km/h, just beware on long weekends, the cops are out in full force when the roads are empty (voice of expensive experience).

Duke wrote:

G_Body_Man wrote: It's also where my dad maxed-out his Echo. It hit 160 km/h before it hit the limiter.

...which probably took him halfway across the province with his foot matted and rocking back and forth in the driver's seat.

Considering it had a 4AT, you're not entirely wrong.

I came up here for work 6 years ago and you could not pay me enough to move back to the States.

I will confess to occasionally grumbling about a slightly overreacting government but on the whole I like it better here.

I know people do speed. I met a Toronto based Enzo owner, he's not too hard to figure out if you look at old Ferrari challenge results, who told be he did an indicated 220mph on the 401 through the middle of Toronto about 2:00am...with the local head of Police in the passenger seat and squad cars blocking off the ramps for them. It's not what you know it's.....

Basil Exposition wrote: I worked for a Canadian-owned company for awhile. After visiting Toronto a couple of times (once for a 6 week stay) and a few other places in Canada, I could never understand why the Canadian ex-pats in the company were so anxious to stay in the States. And why those in Canada were clamoring for a position in the US company so they could stay. Some cited the high taxes and others the long winters, but, boy, you couldn't drag 'em back for nuthin'. Many changed citizenship and even stayed when the company was sold to a US firm, even when it became necessary to find a job with another company. Now, this was in North Carolina which is a great place to live, but still.

Of course, you're encountering a very non-random sample of the population there - i.e. people who want to move to the US, and tend to have very pro-US attitudes. There are many others you couldn't drag into the US with wild horses, and the vast majority who are somewhere in the middle.

Unfortunately, the tidiness ethic is not pan-Canadian. Many parts of the rural west look more like the messy properties described above. I've travelled extensively in rural Ontario and Quebec, and found them to be head and shoulders neater than most of rural BC and Alberta.

My uncle lives in Salem, Ontario. The roads around that area remind me of the levels of NFS:HP2...perfect place to own a supercar and if you fly off the road, at least there's hardly anything but open fields and farmland around

Once ran into a speed trap in that area just as I was talking about how "you could top out a supercar on this straight." I was going over the limit but they didn't give chase, I guess because I was driving a minivan

You'll notice that all the trees in Ontario lean towards Toronto.

It's because Toronto sucks.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I know people do speed. I met a Toronto based Enzo owner, he's not too hard to figure out if you look at old Ferrari challenge results, who told be he did an indicated 220mph on the 401 through the middle of Toronto about 2:00am...with the local head of Police in the passenger seat and squad cars blocking off the ramps for them. It's not what you know it's.....

Yeah, I know who that was. I was visiting his wife when a trailer showed up with his brand-new 458 Spyder. He took me for a ride that included a 360 in the middle of Bayview...

Don't have a lot to add, other than dayum, I hate the word "ex-pat". Heard it everywhere in Hong Kong... That's what white people call themselves when in other countries, yet we refer to everyone else as "immigrants".

The 401 speed limit is 100kph. The actual or effective speed is 120kph. I've noticed in my travels through the United States that there seems to be a distinct lack of zoning bylaws. In Detroit there seem to be houses backing on to oil refineries and steel mills. Also Americans just seem to abandon the property when it's time to move on. People in Ontario in general seem to be the most "anal" Canadians on a relative scale. They're still friendly but it's a handshake and not a hug.

You were in Tillsonburg weren't you,Adrian. Three Tim Hortons to serve 13,000 people. It was home for 17 years before I moved stateside. A really nice place to live, despite the monotonous 80 KPH run up to the 401.

DeadSkunk wrote: You were in Tillsonburg weren't you,Adrian. Three Tim Hortons to serve 13,000 people. It was home for 17 years before I moved stateside. A really nice place top live, despite the monotonous 80 KPH run up to the 401.

Sturgeon Falls - pop 6,700 and 2 Timmies

I like Canada.

We have 3 Timmies on our Campus! None of them, are more than 250 m apart.