Career - Engineer

Well, I thought I'd come looking for (free) advice from the GRM braintrust. I currently work as a design engineer at a fairly average defense contractor. Job security is high, pay is average, politics suck - but I can focus on my part of the business and largely ignore it. If the company makes it through the next few years (and the shrinking military budgets), then likelihood of future promotion to Director of Engineering is very high: in fact, they've proposed the first step of making me a product line manager. It's all pretty good...except: work is 50 miles away and the politics do in fact get to me at times.

Enter job offer 1: Understand that I haven't been looking for work. My former employer calls and asks if I would consider working directly for the CEO as engineering manager, with a ~20% pay increase from my current position. The job is 12 miles from my house. This evening, I have a meeting to discuss this opportunity further.

On the surface, it seems like a no-brainer. Less time in traffic, more money, arguably better position.

Then I remember that I've spent 5 years busting my butt to get to where I am at my current employers, have earned the respect of co-workers and customers, and have good future prospects here. Do I leave that for the money? A big part of the puzzle is time spent away from my family: I spend 2.5hrs a day driving to and from work, and moving closer isn't feasible for unrelated reasons.

Thoughts?

Yes.

Why? Because you can control the dynamics of the potential position. You can say to the CEO "if I'm going to do this, this is what I've learned from current position, and this what I'd like to see happen in a new position. IE, no politics."

Your former employer presents you with a promotion, more money, and a short commute.

Time with family should be a top priority. The only questions is 'Why did you leave your former employer?' Was there some negative in this story your are not telling us?

Sounds like too many 'ifs' where you are. If everything pans out, then you will have a 50 mile commute. But there are a lot of ifs here.

With the data presented - take the offer!

IMHO, I don't see the politics ending- it happens everywhere. It's why Dilbert is so popular. Maybe it will change so that you can manage it better... dunno.

While top respect of your co-workers and customers is very, very important (as well as laudable)- what does that really mean at the end of a decade? Will you get "more" out of it? Right now, the way I'm reading your note, the "more" you are looking for now is 1) more time with family followed by 2) less more of politics. If you are #1 in the the eye of your co-workers and customers, will you fix either one of those? Let alone the money consideration.

BTW, be honest about the time with your family- even IF you moved that much closer to work, will you be able to spend more time with your family, or will you need to spend more time at work anyway?

Tough choice, and IMHO, one that you should be discussing with your family and not us.

I say yes based on money and time with family. My wife has had a long commute for nearly 4 years.

She is slowly transitioning to where we live...........her commute half the week is now 15 minutes instead of just over an hour. It's much better.

As for politics? That happens everywhere.

Politics are everywhere -- troof!

But you get the shorter commute, more money, and a more direct tie to the CEO.

Sounds like it is all upside based on what you laid out here.....

I would be trying to get out of the defense contractor side of things.

After 11 years of driving 40-50 miles to work, I'd take a pay cut to be 12 miles from home... I could probably ride my bike that distance faster than my drive to here...

I'm pretty sure I've come to the same conclusion you all have, for similar reasons...but it's nice to have a quick unbiased sanity check. Needless to say, there have been MANY family discussions over the past week.

Alfa: I chuckled a little bit when I read your post, since you seem to be reading my mind. I will say that the longer I engineer, the funnier Dilbert gets. I do fear the temptation to work the "hours not commuting" rather than taking the time to spend with family, especially as I try to build rapport.

As noted by 93EXCivic, I don't have a lot of confidence in the defense industry over the next few years....

We'll see how things go tonight, but it looks like there will be some significant life changes in our near future. In related news, I might finally be able to trade the TDI in for something a bit more fun.

I'm an engineer as well and I used to work in the defense / aerospace industry. While it can be fun and rewarding, once the contracts go away it's not so much fun any more...life has been a lot more stable since I moved to a different industry.

njansenv wrote: I do fear the temptation to work the "hours not commuting" rather than taking the time to spend with family, especially as I try to build rapport.

That's something that takes determination. I was always the guy that would do anything it took to get a job done. Now, in this current economy I get paid quite a bit less to do more (read: harder) work. I put in my 40 hours, that's it. If you need me to work 50 hours a week, we need to re-negotiate things. I see some of these poor saps that are here when I get here, here when I leave, and e-mailing 6 hours later at home. Not me man. I get my work done, and it's done VERY well. When I can no longer do that in 40 hours, something needs to change.
Now, I will put in 50 hours every now and then because something unexpected comes up, but I see that if you start putting in 50 hours a week, that becomes expected. Kids grow up too quick, and they need you more than your paycheck.

njansenv wrote: As noted by 93EXCivic, I don't have a lot of confidence in the defense industry over the next few years....

Yup, I got out of the defense industry in August of last year. January this year, the company I was working for laid off some engineering staff and a ton of production guys.

I would have been one of the ones to be laid off if I hadn't got out.

In reply to DrBoost:

You Sir........you speak the truth!!!!

njansenv wrote: Do I leave that for the money? A big part of the puzzle is time spent away from my family: I spend 2.5hrs a day driving to and from work, and moving closer isn't feasible for unrelated reasons. Thoughts?

You are not leaving for the money - you have to look at total compensation and that includes the extra time for your family.

This sounds like a win for you.

I love my 7 minute commute. I used to drive 1hr 15 min each way (2.5 hours total), but we didn't have kids then. I can't even think of that now.

I'd either take the closer job as "promotions" can just get thrown around as hearsay.....never means that will happen or take the option 2 route.

Option 2, as long as it isn't a competitor(thats grounds for firing in several industries), I would talk with your current bosses and give them an opportunity to beat the closer offer(with factoring in the added time and cost of going the extra distance) I would not burn either bridge, and would personally go with this option if in your shoes.

I also agree that work should not be your life though, I went 2 years of working 60-72hrs a week + 1hr commute each way......I made a good chunk of money, and the government had to love taking it, but not having a life wasn't worth it.

Well, I figured I should post a quick update: I'm making the move, and will start my new role as engineering manager on the 23rd. I spent quite a bit of time talking to my new reports before making the final decision, and am looking forward to the switch. It'll be a monumental change for our family - both with respect to time with them and financially. I'll also be able to more easily justify "commuting" in a more interesting (less efficient) car than the TDI Golf that I currently drive. Or, I could just enjoy filling the tank once every 6 weeks (!).

Congrats!

I'm pretty sure that my dad turned down a job offer that was significantly more money (as in, about what I make in a year more) because it was a 45 minute commute vs. his 15 minute commute. At his point in life, it was 100% the right decision.

Congrats!

njansenv wrote: Or, I could just enjoy filling the tank once every 6 weeks (!).

Oh and yes! Do this! Think of how much money it leaves for a proper toy that doesn't get the daily wear and tear!

I dearly love my 30' commute, but you guys make a TON more money than I do!