Skip to the end if you don't want the whole story. I'm working on a candelabra project. Long story is I'm making a wall sconce from some old 19th century footboards from a Cabriolet Surrey carriage. They will go on the walls flanking the chimney chase in my house. Everything in the decor is copper, walnut, and wrought iron.
So I want candle followers for the candles. Like this:
Problem is, I can only find them in brass, not copper. I'm assuming it has to do with the heat conductivity of the brass being ideal? For a while I used some copper pipe reducers (like 3/4" to 1/2" or something) and they vaguely worked, but they weren't heavy enough on the bottom and wouldn't stay vertical. They would start going crooked and spill wax.
I have a forge, so I thought I could cast them out of copper, but I've yet to dabble in the melty things.
TL;DR...
Looking to either:
A) find copper candle followers to buy,
B) or advice on casting my own. Specifically, how does one make a mold of a tapered cylinder? I can borrow a brass candle follower from work (theater props) to use as the pattern, but how do I make a sand mold with a tapered cylinder? If I make the mold with the parting line along the bore's axis, I then have a floating center core that I can't remove the original without destroying the mold. If I try to just bury it and do a surface pour, the same thing will happen. Since it's tapered inside and out there is no way to get the original out without moving sand that needs to stay still. Do I just cast a gumdrop-shaped ingot and drill it with maybe a stepped bit, or a tapered ball joint reamer?
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/15/23 10:42 a.m.
For best prices, look for used dental casting equipment on eBay. Or get something like this https://https://a.co/d/48V01sI I've seen these used for $100
I wouldn't go sand cast for something this small, mold would probably be a sacrificial positive with plaster around it. 3D printed in PLA could do the trick, or wax if you want to create your own positive out of wood and make a mold for wax out of silicone.
If you are looking for candle followers, maybe some of the various colonial era re-enactment sites around the country might have something?
That is not really a project for a noob into casting metal.
Any chance you have access to a lathe or a mill? Maybe a makerspace nearby?
You have a forge, but not a foundry? A forge could be used, if you made a wood blank as a template, shaped some copper sheet around it, then hammered the seam. Still not exactly easy, but easier than trying to setup floating cores.
Buy a brass set and electroplate in copper.
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/15/23 11:04 a.m.
RevRico said:
That is not really a project for a noob into casting metal.
I dunno, this was my first pour. Had help, but still. https://imgur.com/a/kJjBZ
I would second a lathe as a good alternative.
You can make a silicone mold and then make waxes for lost wax casting ,
just make sure your " original" is made a little larger to compensate for the shrinkage when the cast part is cooled.
johndej
SuperDork
2/15/23 11:39 a.m.
Not as fun as making your own and probably a bit big. Canadian with phone number and touted as copper
https://www.articles-religieux.ca/en/copper-candle-follower-1-3-4-pfc134
Edit, backing up a page they have several sizes available
https://www.articles-religieux.ca/en/candle-followers-sockets-accessories
Rattlecan the brass ones with copper paint. Its not like anyone is gonna take them to a spectrometer.
RevRico said:
That is not really a project for a noob into casting metal.
Any chance you have access to a lathe or a mill? Maybe a makerspace nearby?
You have a forge, but not a foundry? A forge could be used, if you made a wood blank as a template, shaped some copper sheet around it, then hammered the seam. Still not exactly easy, but easier than trying to setup floating cores.
I have a cheap Amazon propane forge kit with options for other gasses. Never used it. I bought it a few years ago because I wanted to make copper tiles for the floor in front of the fireplace. I still plan on that eventually, but I'm getting lazy about scavenging used copper.
I have a lathe... kind of. It's a homemade wooden lathe. The bearings are just wood and you add oil to them. Nevermind. I don't have a lathe, I have a spinning abomination. I have a drill press which I have used as a makeshift lathe in the past. Chuck up the piece and get it spinning, then use the base plate at an angle as a knife rest.
barefootcyborg5000 said:
Buy a brass set and electroplate in copper.
I'll have to look into that. Everytime I talk about a homebrew electroplating thing, people warn me that I'll turn into BrindleFly and explode or shoot my eye out.
Edit cause I forgot: I'm also trying to avoid some of the cost. A set of 6 brass candle followers can easily cost $100 or more.
johndej said:
Not as fun as making your own and probably a bit big. Canadian with phone number and touted as copper
https://www.articles-religieux.ca/en/copper-candle-follower-1-3-4-pfc134
Edit, backing up a page they have several sizes available
https://www.articles-religieux.ca/en/candle-followers-sockets-accessories
I found those as well, but it looks like they brass plated them. Kinda defeats the purpose unless I machine/sand off the plating.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
barefootcyborg5000 said:
Buy a brass set and electroplate in copper.
I'll have to look into that. Everytime I talk about a homebrew electroplating thing, people warn me that I'll turn into BrindleFly and explode or shoot my eye out.
Edit cause I forgot: I'm also trying to avoid some of the cost. A set of 6 brass candle followers can easily cost $100 or more.
Ah. Yeah, home plating can be done safely, but it isn't exactly cheap. What about just a copper leaf on a cheap (stainless?) set? Any willing chrome shop can copper plate stuff, but I don't know $$$.
So I looked up copper plating and it looks easily do-able. It doesn't get around the purchase price of brass followers to start with, but it's an option.
I've looked through 9 pages on amazon of candle followers and they're all either brass or brass plated, and not finding any bargains.
Looks like my options include casting some copper blobs and machining them, or maybe casting some cheap blobs of something, machining/plating them, but with my propane forge I'm a little limited on what I can get to melt unless I add O2 or use a hotter gas.
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/15/23 3:10 p.m.
Could order a chunk of copper delivered to me and I could cut some on my lathe?
Mr_Asa said:
Could order a chunk of copper delivered to me and I could cut some on my lathe?
Hmmm... if I don't find a lathe in a friend's basement around here I just might send you some sketches and a bar of copper.
I still want to use my forge, so I might send you some ugly ingots to start with
How about copper plating a brass follower? Might be the easy button and a fun project to boot.
What about lathing a wood buck and hammering/sanding down some copper pipe? How precise does the shape need to be?
In reply to Toyman! :
One of the reasons is that brass followers are bloody expensive. I'm looking at at least $100 for the brass followers which I was hoping to replace with $2 worth of propane in the forge and the free copper from my friend's recent plumbing escapades.
It might come to that, and I've been in a youtube rabbit hole about copper plating. Just hoping that I can find a cheaper substrate to start with.
barefootcyborg5000 said:
What about lathing a wood buck and hammering/sanding down some copper pipe? How precise does the shape need to be?
As long as it's intentional, I wouldn't mind a hammered look. One of the ways followers seem to work is having heft so they stay vertical and "planted" on the candle. I tried some copper pipe reducers and they didn't work. They stayed suspended on small pieces of unmelted wax and tipped over (sometimes falling off) spilling melted wax. I can't imagine thin-wall pipe working. If I could find some that was schedule 40 steel kind of thickness, I think it would work.
How about something dumb like schedule 40 steel pipe? Make a buck out of something, heat a 1" section of the pipe glowing red, and whack it over the buck.... THEN copper plate the steel? Can you copper plate steel? Nevermind, just checked. You can't, at least not without nickel plating with cyanide compounds first.
Is there such a thing as thick-walled copper pipe? Brass followers are sometimes up to 1/4" thick but I would think 1/8" thickness would do
Edit: Yes... brass pipe comes in thick/threaded nipples. Maybe whack/lathe some of that and copper plate that?
My brain has too much caffeine right now.
Swage for copper pipe, usually smaller sizes. You can make one on a lathe to the size and shape you're after. Anneal pipe if necessary.
Update. I found some 1/2" to 3/8" FIP brass reducers that might work. $36 instead of $100+. I can also return them if I come up with a better idea. the inside diameter just almost slides over a 7/8" candle, so I can bore out the threads with a 7/8" or 29/32" bit so it slides on with a loose slip fit. Now I just need to find a friend with a lathe (which might be local or might be Mr_Asa). I'll likely leave the hex shape of the fat end, or might round it off to add more "facets" to the bottom. Sand, copper plate, polish, install. Still not totally sold on this, so I'm open to suggestions.
Bore out the threads (red lines) and cut off the top so the wick isn't buried too deep (blue line)
In reply to CJ :
Yup, not thick enough, but thanks for the link. I need more like .125 at least. More would be better. Needs to be beefy enough to have the gravity to stay planted on the candle.
In reply to fasted58 :
I'm afraid that if I get something that can be easily swaged, it's too thin to have the weight I need. That is to say, I don't think annealing is the key, I think heating until plastic would be required.
