child safety question

I hope I can get a few opinions here, so every comment is welcome.

So I am the proud father of two girls: 5 and 9 years old They love to drive with Daddy in his Boxster - and Daddy loves to take them So I got "the works": Porsche child seat (which is simply a de/re-branded standard child seat) + airbag de-activation device (for which - as usual - Porsche charged me a small fortune)

I also track my car as often as my wife and the economy allow me to and amongst other things I have a set of Momo bucket seats and 6-point harness, which I so far only use on the track.

So finally here comes the question: I am not sure how safe the child seat + 3-point harness would protect in case of a bad accident (not that I hope to ever have one), they're a bit wobbly in my opinion and I am wondering if it wouldn't be much safer to install the Momo seat + 6 point harness on the passenger seat and "strap my girls in"?

Opinions please

They would be safer still if you packaged them in crates filled with SFI rated impact foam and stored them in the basement.

Seriously... the 3pt is safer for all of you unless you have a cage to keep the six point harnesses from holding your head up nice and straight so the roof or road can smash it in.

walterj wrote: They would be safer still if you packaged them in crates filled with SFI rated impact foam and stored them in the basement. Seriously... the 3pt is safer for all of you unless you have a cage to keep the six point harnesses from holding your head up nice and straight so the roof or road can smash it in.

Hmmm,

good point, but I hope the stock roll hoops + Brey-Krause aftermarket rollbar extension would do the trick

I would stick with the stock stuff... I don't think the child seats are designed to work properly with racing seats and harnesses.

In reply to Hatzenbach:

I'm not sure whether you mean strap the girls into the racing seat, or strap the child safety seat into the racing seat, but either is a bad idea.

As far as strapping the girls into the race seat directly, it is unlikely that the harnesses would be properly positioned for kids that small, especially the 5yo. The 9yo might be ok, assuming the harnesses are adjusted properly.

As for putting the safety seat in the racing bucket, I'm not sure it would fit. More importantly, it was designed to be held in place with a 3-point and/or LATCH/ISOFIX system. If the lap belts of the harness were routed through the normal lap belt routing it might be ok, but I wouldn't do it. If nothing else, it will be hard to fasten the harness buckle because it will be under the child safety seat.

As far as wobble on child safety seats goes, the guideline I've always heard is that the seat should not be able to move more than an inch when properly installed.

As long as the stock vehicle restraints fit the kids (probably your older daughter), or the child safety seat fits into the car properly (for your younger daughter), they'll be fine.

Besides, you'll have much bigger worries about your girls in just a few short years.

Child seats are designed to fit into standard seats and belt systems, aftermarket seats would not be as safe IMHO

If the child safety seat is wobbly when installed then either you're not doing it right or the safety seat just doesn't work with the Boxter's seat. I used to kneel my 200#s into the safety seat and then pull the seatbelt tight to get all the slack out. That seat wasn't moving at all, no matter how hard I yanked it around after that.

What pigeon said, but additionally you need to first pull the retractable 3 pointer ALL THE WAY OUT, then shove your knee into the childseat, put some weight in it, and allow the 3 pointer to retract.

When you pull it all the way out, it ratchets tight, instead of moving easily (like when an adult is in it).

Properly installed childseat does not move- it is not wobbly.

You mean they cant just ride in my lap like Brittney's kids?

Hmmmm-no I don't drive around with Brittney's kids in my lap.

Me and my kids - if I don't feel 100% safe, then I am not going to do it. Take it to your fire dept or to toys-r-us. They both have people who have been trained to fit various child seats into different cars. The service is free and if the fire fighter sees it and still thinks it safe, I would feel much better then the info I got off of a internet forum where no one has seen your set up.

thats a good point. you only need to read thorugh the "ever give yourself a heart attack in your garage?" thread to see the kind of people youre dealing with here....

someone even blew up their car after aiming their exhaust at the gas tank.

are these really the people you want chiming in on your daughter's safety?

lol

I bought a ratcheting device for the belt when I got a seat for my daughter. I bought it at Babies R Us for about $20.00. after installing the seat in the traditional manner you slip the belt in a slot in a barel and wind it up as tight as you possibly can with the handle. Let me tell you, you only THINK the seat is tight before you use this thing.

I agree with SVrex's comments about pulling the belt all the way out, but this doesn't work on all cars. It does on my wife's Accord and my buddy's Odyssey though. Pull it all the way out, retract it, put knee in carseat with all my weight and yank it as tight as it will go. It won't move an inch after that. On my Miata I use the supplied slip-on buckle to lock the two portions of belt together. I also have the ratcheting device porksboy mentions and it works great on some cars, but it won't fit on the Miata belt in the little distance of exposed belt. This is all on older cars. I find the LATCH system on newer cars to be better when I can use it (ie. rentals).

Most of the posts in this thread are about installing a baby carrier, not a booster seat. And at the ages of 5 and 8, your kids are in booster seats, not baby buckets. So all the stuff about cinching down and such do not apply.

Booster seats are wobbly, as are humans. Their mission is to ensure proper placement of the body in relation to the belt to ensure the belt works right. As long as the booster seat does this, it's fine.

I do not care for the simple seat types, as they are not held down by anything many times, and are capable of coming out in a crash, particularly a long crash.

I far prefer the types that have a back, with side and head bolsters. These have the straps going through them (albet not terribly strongly), and are far more likely to stay in place in a crash, particularly a long crash.

I like the shoulder belt placement of some of the fully backed and side bolstered booster seats. Some do a very good job of locating the belt over the shoulder of the child, as opposed to being several inches away, or across the face, as the simple booster seat does.

I also like the limited increase in side impact protection from those side bolsters. Yes, it's just mild plastic, but it's two layers, with an air gap. That slows down and stops a lot of sharp metal edges, and slows down skulls as they are flung around.

The oem 3 point harness design is actually quite good at doing its job. A racing harness is far more demanding of placement. It also makes extrication more difficult for anyone except a track experienced rescue crewman.

For anything except track applications, or a car with truly terrible seatbelts or seats, I would use the oem belt with a good booster seat, with a back and side bolsters.

You could always put the 5 year old in a Britax Frontier or something similar. The Frontier uses a 5pt harness as long as the child is between 30 and 80 lbs.

http://www.britaxusa.com/car-seats/frontier

foxtrapper wrote: Most of the posts in this thread are about installing a baby carrier, not a booster seat. And at the ages of 5 and 8, your kids are in booster seats, not baby buckets. So all the stuff about cinching down and such do not apply.

It does if you're using something like the Britax Frontier, which is what I use for my older son who's too big for a baby bucket.

I didn't read the whole thread so sorry if this is posted already up there.
I know where you are coming from, but I'd never do it. Here's why. If you are using non DOT rated harnesses and your kid gets hurt (God forbid) then you will be seeing the wrong side of a court room real quick. Same goes for the roll bar extensions.
Here in MI roll cages/hoops are not legal, at least back in '04 when I built my challenge car.

Hi,

thanks to y'all for all your input! So here's my plan of action: The Momo seats + 6-pt harness are definitely out - got it. As Porsche is very limited (you have a choice of ONE seat which will deactivate the airbag) I need to stick with the Porsche child-seat which unfortunately fits into the Porsche "sports seat" like a square peg into a round hole :( So I will a) use the CG-Lock device which I still have from pre-Momo days to make sure the lower belt sits REAL tight b) use the "pull the seat belt out all the way" trick to make sure the upper part locks as well

That should do the trick

DrBoost wrote: If you are using non DOT rated harnesses and your kid gets hurt (God forbid) then you will be seeing the wrong side of a court room real quick.

Yeah, very good point, didn't think about this

Did you get the Porsche Child Seat Fastener System when you bought your child seat?

"Porsche child seats can be fitted into position quickly and securely using the standard North American LATCH fastening system in conjunction with the Porsche Child Seat Fastener System which needs to be installed through your authorized Porsche dealer. Telescopic bars on the child seat lock into place between the backrest and the seat and hold it firmly to the passenger seat. Child seats may only be used in the Boxster, 911 or Cayman on the passenger seat in conjunction with the child seat fastener system. To avoid the risk of injury from a deploying airbag, never place a child age 12 or under in a front seating position without the dealer-installed airbag deactivation device."

http://shop1.porsche.com/usa/car/boxster987/95504480103/

you can see what the Porsche Child Seat Fastener System runs here - I am guessing a few hours labor at the Porsche dealer will be on top of that.

http://www.mrzaccessories.com/62PR-997-044-800-J.html

it's an investment, not an expense