Chinese hate Japnese?

Javelin wrote: WWII was a much, much larger and nastier conflict than most US History classes like to acknowledge.

All of history is nastier than what students are fed. A few years ago, I re-read a book I was assigned during high school, entitled "Stalin." It's easy to take for granted how comfortable our modern lives are without having some historical context for how fearful living day-to-day can be.

The Cold War was easier to understand once I learned that it was a lot more complex than the arms race/stalemate with Russia, Cuban Missile Crisis, Berlin Wall, and duck and cover films. Most of my primary and secondary school history classes left out the United States' involvement in Central and South America during the CW, where so much of the bloodshed was occurring. I didn't learn about it in detail until my last year in high school.

Perhaps students would be a lot more engaged in history classes if they were exposed to the gruesome truth instead of the sterilized version of the past so frequently taught.

Mitchell wrote:

Javelin wrote: WWII was a much, much larger and nastier conflict than most US History classes like to acknowledge.

All of history is nastier than what students are fed. A few years ago, I re-read a book I was assigned during high school, entitled "Stalin." It's easy to take for granted how comfortable our modern lives are without having some historical context for how fearful living day-to-day can be. The Cold War was easier to understand once I learned that it was a lot more complex than the arms race/stalemate with Russia, Cuban Missile Crisis, Berlin Wall, and duck and cover films. Most of my primary and secondary school history classes left out the United States' involvement in Central and South America during the CW, where so much of the bloodshed was occurring. I didn't learn about it in detail until my last year in high school. Perhaps students would be a lot more engaged in history classes if they were exposed to the gruesome truth instead of the sterilized version of the past so frequently taught.

can't tell them the truth- it might cause little Timmy to have nightmares..

Mitchell wrote:

Javelin wrote: WWII was a much, much larger and nastier conflict than most US History classes like to acknowledge.

Perhaps students would be a lot more engaged in history classes if they were exposed to the gruesome truth instead of the sterilized version of the past so frequently taught.

You want the truth?

mguar wrote:

mad_machine wrote: it goes back millenia. China has tried to invade Japan on several occasions (where do you think Kamikaze came from?) but were foiled by storms. Japan did invade China and Korea a few times.. once under the rule of am empress. it's a very tangled web of hate and interdependence

well you have things confused.. Kamakaze means Divine wind. Refers to the battle with the Russians where a divine wind destroyed the Russian fleet.

That's close. It was actually the Mongol fleet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze

mguar wrote: Historically Japan has been the aggressor, Not China!

Also true, at least in fairly recent history. China basically closed its borders beginning with the Ming dynasty but the British interfered a LOT. After WWI, the Japanese became very aggressive toward China.

http://www.kinabaloo.com/h1.html

mguar wrote: The parts of Tokyo selling electronics, cameras, and other Japanese Products was fascinating Things that sold for hundreds back home were less than $50. US Bought a Sieko chronograph for $11 that I kept for decades and was selling for over $200 in America..

A grad school buddy of mine flew C-141s during the Vietnam era. He said they used to buy Nikon cameras cheap and bring back to the states to sell. Uncle Sam caught on and stopped that.

BTW that same buddy flew the first negotiators into Egypt right after the Six Day War. He said it was a bit "tense".

I'm still awaiting "CIA Operations of the Last 5 Decades" to become a course of study.......I'm pretty sure they wrote the book on how to play both sides and watch them burn.....

Somehow, I doubt this chapter of history will never be taught in high schools.....

Curmudgeon wrote:

aircooled wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: ...Wernher von Braun, father of the NASA programs which led to the Saturn boosters and ultimately the Apollo moon landings, was a Nazi and was in charge of the development of the V-2 rockets that Germany rained onto Britain during WWII...

I believe the primary reason he would be considered for prosecution was the use of slave labor in the production of the V2's (which he was in charge of). Von Braun claimed he only cooperated and helped the Nazi's because he was so obsessed with rockets and ultimately going into space and the moon and that was the only way to continue his work. I believe his behavior tended to support this. He was responsible for taking almost all of the Nazi's rocket data secrets from Peenemunde (after being told to destroy them) and escaping with them to the western forces. This seems to indicate he had far greater allegiance to rockets then to the Nazis.

True. It could also be argued that he told the story his captors wanted to hear. Had things gone the other way in WWII, who's to say he would not have lived out his days as a very high ranking Nazi watching his dreams being built by slaves?

NASA settled him in Huntsville, AL. There are many things around here named for him.

Von Braun was a smart guy who did whatever he needed to get his rockets. He was thinking about space travel while the Nazis were thinking about Venegence weapons. He was also smart enough to be sure the US got him at the end of the war. The Ruskies got another of their scientist who was responsible for getting their rocket program off the ground before us (sorry for the pun).

mguar wrote:

mad_machine wrote: it goes back millenia. China has tried to invade Japan on several occasions (where do you think Kamikaze came from?) but were foiled by storms. Japan did invade China and Korea a few times.. once under the rule of am empress. it's a very tangled web of hate and interdependence

well you have things confused.. Kamakaze means Divine wind. Refers to the battle with the Russians where a divine wind destroyed the Russian fleet. Historically Japan has been the aggressor, Not China!

nope.. as stated above.. It was the mongol fleet (but they controlled china at the time.. so the Chinese fleet) that tried to invade Japan Twice. Both times twarted by a storm (probably a typhoon) that destroyed the invading fleet before they could reach the shore.

As for the Russian War.. Japan painted their ships up to look like Russian Ships and before the real russian ships could figure out the ruse.. were blown out of the water. The russians were expecting relief/backup, so had been expecting a fleet to approach.. just not a japanese one

mad_machine wrote: As for the Russian War.. Japan painted their ships up to look like Russian Ships and before the real russian ships could figure out the ruse.. were blown out of the water. The russians were expecting relief/backup, so had been expecting a fleet to approach.. just not a japanese one

This sounds like something that only our hat would think of......

wlkelley3 wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote:

aircooled wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: ...Wernher von Braun, father of the NASA programs which led to the Saturn boosters and ultimately the Apollo moon landings, was a Nazi and was in charge of the development of the V-2 rockets that Germany rained onto Britain during WWII...

I believe the primary reason he would be considered for prosecution was the use of slave labor in the production of the V2's (which he was in charge of). Von Braun claimed he only cooperated and helped the Nazi's because he was so obsessed with rockets and ultimately going into space and the moon and that was the only way to continue his work. I believe his behavior tended to support this. He was responsible for taking almost all of the Nazi's rocket data secrets from Peenemunde (after being told to destroy them) and escaping with them to the western forces. This seems to indicate he had far greater allegiance to rockets then to the Nazis.

True. It could also be argued that he told the story his captors wanted to hear. Had things gone the other way in WWII, who's to say he would not have lived out his days as a very high ranking Nazi watching his dreams being built by slaves?

NASA settled him in Huntsville, AL. There are many things around here named for him.

And a beer.

I don't dispute his contributions to NASA's successes. I also don't blind myself to his Nazism or use of slave labor to build the V2's. He could have defected to the Allies at pretty much any time and saved all that from happening but he didn't.

Machiavelli's 'The ends justify the means' is not a good way to live one's life, IMHO.