aircooled wrote:Klayfish wrote: ....Losing weight is mathematically a simple equation: calories burned > calories taken in....It is amazing how this simple fact seems to be missed by so many. Thus, the term "diet" should never be used.
IF BMR is supposed to be the no-movement energy requirements, about 2200-2600kcal/day, and if you take in less then that number that should equal weight loss, no?
Ranger50 wrote:aircooled wrote:IF BMR is supposed to be the no-movement energy requirements, about 2200-2600kcal/day, and if you take in less then that number that should equal weight loss, no?Klayfish wrote: ....Losing weight is mathematically a simple equation: calories burned > calories taken in....It is amazing how this simple fact seems to be missed by so many. Thus, the term "diet" should never be used.
Yes, but you're also working with a couple million years of very successful evolution on your side. Those that had a metabolism that wouldn't shift into low gear during times of hunger died out during one of the many many times of hunger that have happened every now and again. We're decendents of the survivors that were very good at holding on to internal stores of energy.
It's really simple, sort of.
I would, but it just doesn't sound like much fun. I like eating dirty. 
I'm trying to reduce the number of carbs I take in. Not succeeding very well. I'm curious about the whole paleo diet thing.
the older I get.. the less meat I eat.. just need to reduce carbs some and I will be set.
Like said above.. I am still in good shape.. 31" waist at 175 to 180 pounds... in HS I had a 28" waist.. so 25 years and three inches is not so bad.
I thought the "processing" of food added all the good flavors
Ranger50 wrote:aircooled wrote:IF BMR is supposed to be the no-movement energy requirements, about 2200-2600kcal/day, and if you take in less then that number that should equal weight loss, no?Klayfish wrote: ....Losing weight is mathematically a simple equation: calories burned > calories taken in....It is amazing how this simple fact seems to be missed by so many. Thus, the term "diet" should never be used.
2200kcal is high for a no movement resting rate.
I am pretty big and calc out a 1800 and change. On my feet for 10-12 hours a day walking so I can darn near eat what I want. Though I keep to stuff from the garden when I can. Last time I kept my counter on I was in the 3700 or so range on a good day.
When you burn huge calorie numbers its HARD to get enough in that are "clean" or natural though. I use protein powder and oatmeal to pump up my numbers.
Ranger50 wrote: IF BMR is supposed to be the no-movement energy requirements, about 2200-2600kcal/day, and if you take in less then that number that should equal weight loss, no?
Essentially, yes. But the human body is an amazing thing. It adapts to it's environment remarkably well. Generally, for an "average" sized male, 2500 calories is roughly maintenance (don't lose or gain weight). People often then say "Well, I'll just eat 1700 calories and lose weight". That works for a little while. Then the body adapts and gets used to 1700 calories per day and the weight loss slows. So you may need to spike every once in a while to keep your body "guessing" and keep from going into self preservation mode. For me, once a week, I eat a "cheat meal". Pizza, fries, whatever. So, keep the calories burning with exercise/movement and don't just flat starve yourself. Feed your body right.
I've said it before on similar threads, and I'll say it again...fad diets are just that...fads. Stay away from them. Paleo, Atkins, Kelp/Seaweed/Plankton, whatever....removing all carbs or all fats from your diet is a bad idea. A good balance is the right way to go.
^That people that don't regularly exercise are typically shocked with how little calories exercise burns compared to what your body uses just keeping you alive.
I think for the average person walking 4 miles at 4mph (a decent walking clip) will burn ~500 calories. That doesn't even offset the King Size Snickers and Coke you bought for a snack this afternoon.
Ranger50 wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury: and how was the HDL? EDIT- the ratio between the two is a better indicator then just one number.
doc said "LDL is high, eat better, and exercise more. Everything else looks good."
so I dunno. I think I will get the results in the mail here before too long.
z31maniac wrote: I think for the average person walking 4 miles at 4mph (a decent walking clip) will burn ~500 calories. That doesn't even offset the King Size Snickers and Coke you bought for a snack this afternoon.
That's true, but there's more to it. The real "burn" comes after the excercise. When you get your heart rate elevated for an extended period and/or use your muscles a lot, it's the elevated calorie burn after that can make a huge impact. So while you may burn 500 on the walk, you'll burn a lot more in the next several hours than if you hadn't walked.
Klayfish wrote:Ranger50 wrote: IF BMR is supposed to be the no-movement energy requirements, about 2200-2600kcal/day, and if you take in less then that number that should equal weight loss, no?Essentially, yes. But the human body is an amazing thing. It adapts to it's environment remarkably well. Generally, for an "average" sized male, 2500 calories is roughly maintenance (don't lose or gain weight). People often then say "Well, I'll just eat 1700 calories and lose weight". That works for a little while. Then the body adapts and gets used to 1700 calories per day and the weight loss slows. So you may need to spike every once in a while to keep your body "guessing" and keep from going into self preservation mode. For me, once a week, I eat a "cheat meal". Pizza, fries, whatever. So, keep the calories burning with exercise/movement and don't just flat starve yourself. Feed your body right. I've said it before on similar threads, and I'll say it again...fad diets are just that...fads. Stay away from them. Paleo, Atkins, Kelp/Seaweed/Plankton, whatever....removing all carbs or all fats from your diet is a bad idea. A good balance is the right way to go.
I'm not going to disagree, especially after the rigorous nutrition class I had to take a few years ago, about the body adapting to new energy requirements. That is one reason I got the phone app, LoseIt, to keep track of the calories I have been consuming on a regular basis, with a year after weight loss goal of 100#@2#/wk. Not really changing anything I have been doing, I was 5k calories below BMR for a week, yet no real weight loss. And yes, I drank enough water to feel like a fish.
Agreed on the latest fad diet. Never liked the idea of exclusion of certain foods.
Ok all this talk of clean eating has me soaking some chickpeas, I'm making Lab Labi tonight, a north african spiced chickpea stew with a coddled egg. I just need to find some good harissa.
Klayfish wrote:z31maniac wrote: I think for the average person walking 4 miles at 4mph (a decent walking clip) will burn ~500 calories. That doesn't even offset the King Size Snickers and Coke you bought for a snack this afternoon.That's true, but there's more to it. The real "burn" comes after the excercise. When you get your heart rate elevated for an extended period and/or use your muscles a lot, it's the elevated calorie burn after that can make a huge impact. So while you may burn 500 on the walk, you'll burn a lot more in the next several hours than if you hadn't walked.
What is "a lot more"? Because the vast majority of stuff I read has said it has to be INTENSE exercise that burns any calories after the fact.
http://blogs.menshealth.com/health-headlines/burn-a-pound-of-fat-a-week-without-really-trying/2011/03/10
"“Walking is great for many other reasons, but when it comes to increasing your metabolism afterward it just doesn’t happen,” says Nieman. In fact, a similar study conducted in a chamber with walking showed no metabolism increase at all."
I've discovered these awesome middle eastern yogurts at one of the Mediterranean groceries in town. There's Labna which is a really thick yogurt and Yiaorti Sakoulas which is a Greek yogurt. They are so different from the Oikos / Dannon crap as to not even be the same food. I use them instead of mayo or other fatty sauces and they're awesome.
They still have a fair amount of fat in them, about 50% calories from fat, but compare it to Mayo - 100 calories per tbsp, 100% of which are from fat. Labna is 40 calories per tbsp, 22 from fat. Yiaorti Sakoulas is 25 calories per tbsp, 13 from fat. I figure if you replace the highest fat foods in your diet with something like this you're doing pretty good. And it's all natural stuff, not some synthetic fat or something. And I promise you it is delicious. I made a knockoff of Raising Cane's sauce with Yiaorti and it was amazing. The other day I was out and used mayo on a sandwich and actually thought it was disgusting.
z31maniac wrote: What is "a lot more"? Because the vast majority of stuff I read has said it has to be INTENSE exercise that burns any calories after the fact. http://blogs.menshealth.com/health-headlines/burn-a-pound-of-fat-a-week-without-really-trying/2011/03/10 "“Walking is great for many other reasons, but when it comes to increasing your metabolism afterward it just doesn’t happen,” says Nieman. In fact, a similar study conducted in a chamber with walking showed no metabolism increase at all."
Right. A walk, especially a slow one, will do little to nothing for metabolism. That's because for most people, a slow walk (or even a moderate one) won't raise your heart rate enough and get your body ramped up enough to make a difference in calorie burn. It doesn't have to be extremely intense, but you need to get your heart rate up and break a sweat. Just good ol' fashion hard work. There's no way to know exactly how many extra calories will burn, as that's purely dependent on a lot of factors.
David,
Wow, you're a world culture guy, huh? Or is it just that the Mediterranean grocery store owner has his hot 19 year old daughter working there? 
Don't knock us simpletons, Oikos plain greek yogurt is actually very good stuff...nutritionally speaking...ain't the best tasting as is. We go through 3-4 containers of it per week. I add chocolate protein power, 1 tablespoon of natural peanut butter and a teaspoon of Splenda. Makes it taste like a creamy peanut butter cup.
I eat a TON of Oikos, fat free variety.
I wouldn't say i eat clean, but i tend to cook fresh more and more lately.
Klayfish wrote: We go through 3-4 containers of it per week. I add chocolate protein power, 1 tablespoon of natural peanut butter and a teaspoon of Splenda. Makes it taste like a creamy peanut butter cup.
SOunds like a great snack! We use Greek Yogurt instead of sour cream for taco salads, baked potatoes, etc.
Never thought of doing that with it! Thanks for the idea.
Yeah, that's why when I walk I try to avg at least 4mph, I've cut back on the jogging until I can get some more weight off and tune my stride a bit better.
So lately I've been walking 3 miles, then come home and do 25-30 minutes of power yoga.
Now we just have to quit off setting being good during the week, with being bad on the weekends.
Meatless Mondays, or at least three non-breakfast meals a week with no meat in them. And I'm swimming again. LDL & total numbers were too high, doc was talking about getting on a statin, I told him no.
Klayfish wrote: David, Wow, you're a world culture guy, huh? Or is it just that the Mediterranean grocery store owner has his hot 19 year old daughter working there?
Heh, haven't seen a daughter there yet but I'll keep my eyes open. ;-)
Oikos actually isn't bad, like you said it's okay as a base for things. But I love the flavor of the fattier stuff. I get frustrated because the grocery store only carries the really low fat stuff and it has so much less flavor. If they had both I would be in heaven.
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