College money. Holy carp.

DirtyBird222 said:

mazdeuce - Seth said:

It's been about 20 years since I finished college. It seemed expensive then. I knew it was even more expensive now, but it wasn't until I got the itemized bill for Deucekid#1's first semester that I realized just how insane it was. A good state school, not one of the big 2 in Texas, but one of the next level, for four years, without books, will be over $100k. Based on what we have saved since the kid was born, we would have needed to double the $2k a year we've saved. Had be ween able to estimate things properly we would have needed to put away $4k a year over the last 16 years. $333 a month. And we've been on the good end of growth of money over the last 16 years which makes it a lot cheaper than doing the reverse and paying off loans in the other direction. 

I'm just blown away. 

 

Dude tell me about it. I'm at TAMU Law for my Masters and JD right now and paying out of pocket. The Master's program alone is going to cost me $35k for classes, books, and their ridiculous fees for paying cash vs. paying with a loan. I may just stop at the masters graduation because I do need to amp up my savings for my kids college funds. 

Each one of my kids gets two "free" years from my GI Bill that I passed onto them. The problem is how do I pay for the other four years? When I got divorced the judge awarded my ex-wife the $30k savings account (10 years of diligently putting away $3k a year gone in a flash) I had for the kids education fund and she blew that on a new car. She also has no plan to save for them or replenish that so I'm left on my own to sort out my kids future. 

I did some of my own forecasting taking what it costs me in my last year of my undergrad in 2009 compared to what it costs now, applied those same levels of inflation to when my kids will be in college, and assuming they'll go to a state university in Florida and figured I'll need at a minimum $40k for each kid to finish out their last two years, so $80k total. I'm assuming it'll be closer to $100k+ in reality. 

I get such a kick out of people who plan their lives.  Forgetting to include all the unexpected. In your case the divorce. 
 In mine ,  the recession of 2008 and just as that started to recover my late wife developed terminal cancer.  
         A old friend suddenly turned into an alcoholic. Then there are accidents and companies going bankrupt.  
     In my whole life I've only been to one retirement party.  One! Since 1974. No I barely knew him.  Oh, and my late wife who filed for her retirement and passed away 3 weeks later. 
   Not whining at all. Life happens. All the planning and sacrifice won't prevent events from happening.  
  Yes I know you can't be the grasshopper.  But life as the ant isn't so great either.  
    
     

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

Just as an aside, the inflationary forces IRT higher education is insane. I went to UCLA in the early 1980s. Tuition was about $1,300/yr for in-state. Now? It's nuts. I paid my way through working as a chauffeur. It was hard. No money for play. I got used to hunger pangs. But I've never taken a penny of debt or grants. 

Paying your own way as you go by working full time just isnt possible anymore unless you have the luck to have a fairly high income job from the word go.  I mean 15 years ago I have friends who, despite scholorships etc, graduated with about $85k in loans over 6 years (bachelors + masters) while working as they went. The working as they went barely covered living expenses where they were going to school and believe me when I say they lived minimally (no car, etc). 

It hasnt gotten better in 15 years, thats for sure. 

I really hope the trajectory changes before my kids go off to college in 14-16 years. 

In reply to Apexcarver :

With you 100 percent. It was easier getting into college then as well. (4.0s were pretty rare and higher averages extremely so). Didn't know how good I had it! My son is going to a good junior college for the first two years, which I'm thankful for. It'd be just like the little bastard to get accepted into some fancy-pants liberal college after that. Me: "We'll pay half if you take a useful major".   My wife: "We'll cover 100 percent of your major in basket weaving with a minor in trans-Siberian dance. We weren't really planning on retiring until our 80s anyway"

Apexcarver said:

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

Just as an aside, the inflationary forces IRT higher education is insane. I went to UCLA in the early 1980s. Tuition was about $1,300/yr for in-state. Now? It's nuts. I paid my way through working as a chauffeur. It was hard. No money for play. I got used to hunger pangs. But I've never taken a penny of debt or grants. 

Paying your own way as you go by working full time just isnt possible anymore unless you have the luck to have a fairly high income job from the word go.  I mean 15 years ago I have friends who, despite scholorships etc, graduated with about $85k in loans over 6 years (bachelors + masters) while working as they went. The working as they went barely covered living expenses where they were going to school and believe me when I say they lived minimally (no car, etc). 

It hasnt gotten better in 15 years, thats for sure. 

I really hope the trajectory changes before my kids go off to college in 14-16 years. 

My brothers and I both paid our own way. We did have academic scholarships for part of it though.

I had a bad summer and had to take out a loan for part of a single semester. My brother got through with no loans.

We just had our first a couple of weeks ago, he is getting a real estate fund not a college fund. He can pay for his own college or get a scholarship if he chooses to go. He will not receive the standard advice of  "you have to go to college."

frenchyd said:

     In my whole life I've only been to one retirement party.  One! Since 1974. No I barely knew him.  
    
     

People have parties when they retire...?

Yeh, somebody buys a cake or bunch of cupcakes.  If you're lucky the boss might even spring for a few bottles of pop. 
   In my fathers era if you made it to retirement after 40 years with the company you might get a watch.  

Apexcarver said:

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

Just as an aside, the inflationary forces IRT higher education is insane. I went to UCLA in the early 1980s. Tuition was about $1,300/yr for in-state. Now? It's nuts. I paid my way through working as a chauffeur. It was hard. No money for play. I got used to hunger pangs. But I've never taken a penny of debt or grants. 

Paying your own way as you go by working full time just isnt possible anymore unless you have the luck to have a fairly high income job from the word go.  I mean 15 years ago I have friends who, despite scholorships etc, graduated with about $85k in loans over 6 years (bachelors + masters) while working as they went. The working as they went barely covered living expenses where they were going to school and believe me when I say they lived minimally (no car, etc). 

It hasnt gotten better in 15 years, thats for sure. 

I really hope the trajectory changes before my kids go off to college in 14-16 years. 

Uncle Sam paid for my college.  But while attending,  I met a few who knew their diploma wasn't worth anything.  I was one of them.  Just part of the hurdle you have to get over to be hired for any job with a future.  
   I admired those who got actual career needed training and information.

      Maybe that's why my 16 year old granddaughters achievement means so much.  She working as an intern when not attending class at the U of M. 
 She is well on her way to a medical career. Something she has wanted since a young girl.   She  just knew she wanted to be a Doctor. 

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

My daughter applied to Brown this past year.  Didn't get in, but their tuition was no more than any of the other Ivy's or private schools, so $80-85k a year.  Still a TON of money, but nowhere near the $110k your friend said.  A 50% scholarship should've had them paying $40-42k/year....

Frenchy, I'm a planner.  Works out well for me, maybe not for everyone but if you don't try to plan, well, then you don't even give yourself a chance to end up where you want to be.  I started 529's for my kids the second they were born.  I also have accounts going for them for significant life events, so weddings, etc.  I'd rather die of a thousand little cuts a month. 

My daughter is in good shape because of it and my son will be too.  Thankfully she's gotten merit scholarships from almost all the schools she's gotten into.  So that helps a lot.  I've given all 4 years of my GI Bill to my daughter because I'll be retired from the Air Force before my son gets to college and I'd rather still be in while it's being used in case there's an issue.

Anything my daughter doesn't use 529 wise will roll down to my son, so nothing will get wasted.

stroker said:

frenchyd said:

     In my whole life I've only been to one retirement party.  One! Since 1974. No I barely knew him.  
    
     

People have parties when they retire...?

Well, I feel a bit relieved that the place I work has had a good number of people retire per year as long as I've been here. 5 that were in my direct work unit over the last 7 years.

In reply to frenchyd :

     In my whole life I've only been to one retirement party.  One! Since 1974. No I barely knew him.  
    
     

You've said this many times.  I can't figure out what your point is.  Are you saying people don't retire?  People can't retire?  More people should retire?  We should throw more parties?  Companies owe people retirement parties?

Are you just upset that nobody invites you to their retirement party?  Do you want more cupcakes?

And what do retirement parties have to do with paying for college?     

docwyte said:

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

My daughter applied to Brown this past year.  Didn't get in, but their tuition was no more than any of the other Ivy's or private schools, so $80-85k a year.  Still a TON of money, but nowhere near the $110k your friend said.  A 50% scholarship should've had them paying $40-42k/year....

Correct, none of the ivies are over $100k in 2022, and were cheaper in the past

I have my second of three on his way to uni in September. He chose the same school his brother did, which is 5000 miles from home. So I get to add a total of 8 round trip tickets per year to their expenses. And our university savings account has lost over $30,000 in the last year. I guess I  will not be retiring just yet. On the plus side they both have swim scolarships which helps, and swimming gets them summer coaching jobs which pay them around 15,000 each for two months part time work so that investment in swim club is sort of paying off.

OHSCrifle said on 8/7/18:

I’m one year away from that first bill and I’m scared. Despite many years of aggressive saving, it’ll still take from now until the day they graduate to put enough away for an in-state undergraduate degree. 

If you take nothing else from this post - start saving early.

I suggested to my wife that our boys consider joining IBEW, start working right away in an industry that has dwindling numbers.. reach journeyman status in a few years and have the opportunity to work for themselves or for the man. As a physical therapist, she sees the wear and tear and thinks it’s a bad idea. 

I’m not convinced yet. 

My experience, updated.

Paying for everything with no assist at state schools in GA will cost around $25k per year. I never imagined we would ever live in GA but here we are.

Based on that target we budgeted,  and will continue to save - every month up until the start of 4th year of university -  toward "covering" the cost of a four year degree from a state school for each kid. 

If we had started saving at birth it would have required about $400/month per kid FOR A STATE SCHOOL, excluding 529 account investment gains.

Starting later makes the hit a lot heavier!

Gains on the 529 investments account can help a lot... losses not so much. It feels good when you see the account grow and you know it's covered ahead of schedule. Or you can simply throttle back the savings. Feels really good.

Dual enrollment, community college, scholarships all help for the better. If our 529 plans have money left over it could be used toward an advanced degree. We're not there yet - time will tell.

The KEY (aside from the obvious hurdle of having the income to support it) is being disciplined and having a plan - not being surprised that your kid is about to graduate from HS. Or that you have 8 kids and E36 M3's expensive  

You've got to see that coming.

Some might say I'm a sucker and that may be accurate. But it's what we decided to do. Kids earning scholarships is a nice and welcome reward. 
 

Lastly... bear in mind... The best laid plan is only a plan - you never know what will really happen. My older kid got sick and knocked seriously off track (things like one year leaseS that we paid when he wasn't even enrolled anymore) and it's been expensive but he now lives at home and that will save a lot. So the plan changes and you do the best you can.

In reply to OHSCrifle :

If they can keep their grades up, the cost of a degree from a state school in GA may be very close to $0 (because of the Hope scholarship)

Yes, an education from a state university in GA can be FREE (with the Hope scholarship)

My understanding is that nine states have similar merit scholarships. CA, FL, LA, GA, KY, MI, MO, NM, and SC. 

Side note on 529 plans...

A 529 must have a single named student beneficiary. Pay attention to the details. When your student turns 18, they are an adult, and they become the OWNERS of the account, not the beneficiaries. You won't be able to roll the excess value in the 529 to another student or beneficiary unless THEY do it.  It becomes their money automatically, not yours to reassign to another student. 
 

IIRC, the designation can only be changed once per year. 
 

I made that mistake. (Twice)

SV reX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

     In my whole life I've only been to one retirement party.  One! Since 1974. No I barely knew him.  
    
     

You've said this many times.  I can't figure out what your point is.  Are you saying people don't retire?  People can't retire?  More people should retire?  We should throw more parties?  Companies owe people retirement parties?

Are you just upset that nobody invites you to their retirement party?  Do you want more cupcakes?

 

And what do retirement parties have to do with paying for college?     

I can tell you what planning gives you- I retired at 55.  Actually, a few months before turning 55.  And we have enough saved up to not do a darned thing.

There are other things that don't make sense about his post- why would it matter if your friend turned into an addict?  Unless you legally take control of their life, it should not have a massive financial impact on you.  He's also mentioned the crash before, too- as one of the misguided people who ended up realizing their losses instead of just taking out what was needed to live on.

College is expensive for many reasons- but I will still suggest that the largest driver is that states have reduced how much money they will give schools over the last 40 years so that the state aided schools can compete in cost for private schools.  The result of that cut is very political, so I'll stay away from that.  But hopefully, people can earn enough in their lives to still be able to retire after 30 years of work if they want to.

SV reX said:

In reply to OHSCrifle :

If they can keep their grades up, the cost of a degree from a state school in GA may be very close to $0 (because of the Hope scholarship)

Yes, an education from a state university in GA can be FREE (with the Hope scholarship)

 

My understanding is that nine states have similar merit scholarships. CA, FL, LA, GA, KY, MI, MO, NM, and SC. 

That is probably similar to what we have as "Bright Futures" here in Florida. 

I know many people that have gotten 100% covered tuition, including my brother. 

 

Also, the CC path is a great one, IMHO.  Check with the target schools to make sure the credits carry over, but it's a great way to get the basics as well as know you can tolerate going to college on a more reasonable budget.

Our local CC is running ads of a women that is an aero engineer working for a rocket builder in Florida who went to CC and then our local high end school.  Brilliant.

SV reX said:

In reply to OHSCrifle :

If they can keep their grades up, the cost of a degree from a state school in GA may be very close to $0 (because of the Hope scholarship)

Yes, an education from a state university in GA can be FREE (with the Hope scholarship)

 

My understanding is that nine states have similar merit scholarships. CA, FL, LA, GA, KY, MI, MO, NM, and SC. 

"Free" is relative. 

Hope scholarship covers most of undergraduate tuition. It's great and has saved us a ton for kid1 and he is still eligible to continue getting it.

If I had managed to earn this scholarship I would have lost it in the first year due to an affinity for beer. Luckily my first kid didn't lose it.

The Hope scholarship does not cover books, food, fees, housing. 

Kid2 has earned the higher scholarship from the state, the Zell Miller. That one is for "higher" achieved HS GPA and it covers more for in-state school - but far from "everything". 
 

https://www.gafutures.org/hope-state-aid-programs/hope-zell-miller-scholarships/

In reply to OHSCrifle :

That depends on when you apply for it. The rules and guidelines change. 
 

I have no reason to know the details right now, but several of my kids did receive both the Hope and the Zell MILLER scholarships, and Hope definitely did pay for books and fees. 
 

Right now, apparently they don't.  But like I said, the rules and guidelines change. 
 

Im pretty sure most people can figure out how to pay for books. (Especially students who know how to sell them back at the end of the semester). That shouldn't stop anyone from getting a degree. 

In reply to frenchyd :

My wife just retired at the end of 2022, not quite aged 60.

You may find it hard to believe, but your personal situation is not everybody's personal situation.

In reply to SV reX :

Totally agree that it is constantly changing. Try finding a straight answer even from the link I sent.
It's like a maze. By design. 

In reply to SV reX :

You sure about that?  Because rules recently changed that any unused 529 funds could be rolled into roth ira's, that are owned by the starters of the 529's.  In other words, any 529 funds that my kids don't use, I get to turn into a Roth IRA for *myself*.

In reply to docwyte :

I'm absolutely 1000% sure that it happened to me. Twice. 
 

Can't answer about details of current legal requirements.