College money. Holy carp.

In reply to Toyman01 :

If the 4th is looking at the Naval Academy, start making nice with your local Congressional offices.  I've often read getting into those schools requires a bit of political schmoozing. Yes, it sucks, but trying to avoid that game is essentially adding a handicap to the process.

I often wonder what my life would have been like had I stayed in school for mechanical engineering...  I ended up in the engineering field anyway, despite going to school for journalism and I've done reasonably OK.  But I do wonder sometimes...

Fortunately, what little school debt I had was paid off decades ago.  If I had kids now at 48, I don't know what I'd do... 

Could also look at high schools with JROTC programs.  Back in the day (grad 1984), my JROTC program received "Honors Unit with Distinction" at our annual Federal Inspection, and our Senior Military Instructor could make two appointments, rather than just recommendations, to each of the Military academies.

I don't understand why the co-op system hasn't caught on more.  Its so vastly superior to internships for both parties involved.

ProDarwin said:

I don't understand why the co-op system hasn't caught on more.  Its so vastly superior to internships for both parties involved.

What is a co-op system?

In reply to D2W :

Different schools do it different ways, but basically a student does co-op session at an employer for a few months similar to an internship.  Then they go back to school for a few months, then they go back, to the same employer.  And it repeats.

The way my school (Kettering) did it, the co-op 'semesters' were quarters.  When I wasn't at my co-op with my employer (spring & fall), a different student was there.  My employer always had co-op(s) available to assist, year round.

My current employer does internships.  We get a flood of them in summer, have to find desks for them, train them, etc.  After 6 weeks they are finally up to speed with *some* of our work. 2-4 weeks after that they are gone and we never see them again.  Seems like a huge waste to me on the employer's part and the students get some value, but not nearly as much as co-op students do.

By the time I graduated I had a couple years experience under my belt in engineering.  My first co-op semester I put labels on boxes and filtered some excel spreadsheets and whatnot.  Basic boring intern stuff.  By my final semester I was working on a thesis project and living in company housing in Mexico while solving production issues in their plant down there.  It was very valuable to me and to the company.

In reply to ProDarwin :

word.   the two most important things i look for on resumes are (1) Formula SAE and (2) Kettering.

I just holding out hope that Danas parents stay alive until little tyke is old enough. IF she decides to go to college, she has her choice of 2, the ones Dana s parents work at where tuition is covered for family. One religious based liberal arts school, and CMU. I've been trying to push the child towards STEM fields since she was 6 months old with toys. Preschool starts next month, depending on how that progresses I might be looking for a child programming robot toy come Xmas just to push her further.

My college experience was bullE36 M3, and part of why I've just sat back and read in this thread. I graduated high school a year early, and my parents decided I should start at community college then transfer. We were paying cash for my education. I went for 5 semesters, telling them from day one that I want to transfer to a specific 4 year school to get a degree in computer programming. Every semester the guidance/transfers people changed my major because "this will transfer better". At the end of 5 semesters, I had more than enough credits for a 2 year degree, but couldn't graduate or transfer without redoing half of it because of the way the school administrators changed everything up. So I never went back. Not to be outdone, I've heard of the same thing happening at the local four year schools as well, people who didn't get loans got their majors dicked around to add at least another year before being able to graduate, while students with loans, the same major, and worse grades were passed right through.

I think the entire education system in this country needs rebuilt from the ground up, but that's a whole other topic. 

In reply to RevRico :

My college experience has been similarly frustrating. Still taking classes as time and money allow, but three semesters now have been lost or wasted because of sudden changes in enrollment rules or lost paperwork or new administrative policies. Every time I walk on campus costs me another $50 in some fee or other. Still going, still planning to finish. The school even just implemented the bachelors degree I've been interested in, but with another kid on the way and no financial help I'm looking at at least another 4 years to finish. 

Meanwhile, my college graduate step father is a self employed plumber and does quite well, enjoys his job for the most part and is always willing to give me work on the side when I'm trying to raise a little extra money. (we get along now, quite well, but when I was 20 and decided I wanted to go back to school I was unable to apply for financial aid without paperwork and info from my parents who refused to help because "I went to college and it was a waste of time and money")<end rant>

Had I been smart when I was 18, I'd have gotten a job as an apprentice at a machine shop and gone to any vocational school to help further that along, instead of getting a job as a detailer just to be close to cars, and end up falling into the parts industry for the next ten years. Making things is what I'm interested in, and engines of all shapes and sizes. Just can't afford to start over again at $12/hr for the next few years with a family to support. Especially with housing costs being so stupid right now.

RevRico said:

I just holding out hope that Danas parents stay alive until little tyke is old enough. IF she decides to go to college, she has her choice of 2, the ones Dana s parents work at where tuition is covered for family. One religious based liberal arts school, and CMU. I've been trying to push the child towards STEM fields since she was 6 months old with toys. Preschool starts next month, depending on how that progresses I might be looking for a child programming robot toy come Xmas just to push her further.

My college experience was bullE36 M3, and part of why I've just sat back and read in this thread. I graduated high school a year early, and my parents decided I should start at community college then transfer. We were paying cash for my education. I went for 5 semesters, telling them from day one that I want to transfer to a specific 4 year school to get a degree in computer programming. Every semester the guidance/transfers people changed my major because "this will transfer better". At the end of 5 semesters, I had more than enough credits for a 2 year degree, but couldn't graduate or transfer without redoing half of it because of the way the school administrators changed everything up. So I never went back. Not to be outdone, I've heard of the same thing happening at the local four year schools as well, people who didn't get loans got their majors dicked around to add at least another year before being able to graduate, while students with loans, the same major, and worse grades were passed right through.

I think the entire education system in this country needs rebuilt from the ground up, but that's a whole other topic. 

I think every student should read the requirements to graduate with a degree in just about every major. Seriously, that means reading the entire course catalog 3 times over. The amount of students who dind't know what it took to graduate with majors/minors in each major/minor was astounding. Because I read the catalog, I was able to graduate with 2 different minors (that aren't worth anything) by adding 3 courses over 4 years. Had I read it before I ever signed up for classes my freshman year, instead of halfway through my sophomore year, I would have had a double if not triple major in 4.5 years.

You know the funny thing about college and spending is it's a vicious circle in some ways in the corporate world. My company gives me $7500 a year for school if I want to use it. But to get my job I need to already have the degree that they are offering to pay for. So instead of offering to pay off student loan debt with that, you grow your debt load to get that job. Damned if you do....Damned if you don't. The other bad thing is if you try to go to school part time or at night, only the private schools offer classes like that so it's harder and much more expensive to get those classes. 

The advice I gave to my nieces and nephews that are just starting school now is take the filler classes on the cheap. History, English, those type classes are great summer CC classes or CLEP test out of them. I got 1 year of credit from CLEP/AP and a semester from JuCo/CC Classes.  That kept my debt low. There are also some great schools out there but shoot even the state schools are $10K a year. Iowa State where I took most of my classes for undergrad is 4X the cost of what it was in 2000 when I left. Salaries haven't gone up that much for sure. 

In reply to ProDarwin :

My company has an association with Drexel University in Philly (where I spent a few semesters as well) and get co-ops from them. Having them for 6 months does help.  We have a couple of them in my dept (electrical engineering) that seem to work out really well. One we have working part time while she finishes her last year and will likely get a job offer.  The other is much younger and still has a lot to learn (and has made some mistakes), but if we get her back again, she has potential to be quite helpful.  They like working for us because unlike some co-op jobs, we actually put them to work, rather than some jobs where they often get little meaningful work to do.

mtn said:

RevRico said:

I just holding out hope that Danas parents stay alive until little tyke is old enough. IF she decides to go to college, she has her choice of 2, the ones Dana s parents work at where tuition is covered for family. One religious based liberal arts school, and CMU. I've been trying to push the child towards STEM fields since she was 6 months old with toys. Preschool starts next month, depending on how that progresses I might be looking for a child programming robot toy come Xmas just to push her further.

My college experience was bullE36 M3, and part of why I've just sat back and read in this thread. I graduated high school a year early, and my parents decided I should start at community college then transfer. We were paying cash for my education. I went for 5 semesters, telling them from day one that I want to transfer to a specific 4 year school to get a degree in computer programming. Every semester the guidance/transfers people changed my major because "this will transfer better". At the end of 5 semesters, I had more than enough credits for a 2 year degree, but couldn't graduate or transfer without redoing half of it because of the way the school administrators changed everything up. So I never went back. Not to be outdone, I've heard of the same thing happening at the local four year schools as well, people who didn't get loans got their majors dicked around to add at least another year before being able to graduate, while students with loans, the same major, and worse grades were passed right through.

I think the entire education system in this country needs rebuilt from the ground up, but that's a whole other topic. 

I think every student should read the requirements to graduate with a degree in just about every major. Seriously, that means reading the entire course catalog 3 times over. The amount of students who dind't know what it took to graduate with majors/minors in each major/minor was astounding. Because I read the catalog, I was able to graduate with 2 different minors (that aren't worth anything) by adding 3 courses over 4 years. Had I read it before I ever signed up for classes my freshman year, instead of halfway through my sophomore year, I would have had a double if not triple major in 4.5 years.

I was going to make a similar comment.  It is critical that students read the course requirements when they start their course of study and track their own progress toward meeting the requirements of any degrees they intend to acquire.  If you don't want to pay for extra semesters, it is very important to be looking at prerequisites and paying attention to when classes are offered so you can take the right classes at the right time.  Changing majors will virtually always be a major setback.  It's also worth noting the the advice given by "councilors" or whatever they call them at a given school is not always good, or even correct.  Read, understand and document the course requirements yourself.  That means acquire and retain the official course catalog from the time you begin your studies. 

Also, if yo intend to transfer from one school to another, it is critical to get the credit transfer guidlines from the school you are transfering to, not the one you are tranfering from.  The school you are currently at can potentially tell you very wrong information about what will or will not transfer.  When transfering credits, if things do not automaticaly transfer as you would hope/expect, do look into the apeals process.  You often aren't stuck with the initial determination if something didn't transfer.

It can all be a lot of work and very frustrating.  

Never trust advisors.

OSU, don't worry about that admission requirement of a foreign language, it doesn't apply to your major. Nope, do a language in a few semesters or you are out.

Had a few other clashes. Biggest one a few semesters away from graduating, registrars office wouldn't meet with me until I was a semester out. Told them to call campus police because I wasn't leaving till they went over my transcript with me. Turns out my advisor had me in the wrong year course catalog for my gen eds (misunderstanding of how to deal with transfer student). If I hadn't forced the issue  to meet with them to figure it out it would have delayed my graduation by a year and a half.

Since this is at the top again and we just wrote the checks for the second semester I suppose this is a good time for an update. 

My niece is doing well. She was accepted to and completed an entry level EMT program while getting good grades and is now part of her local emergency response community. I think it's on a volunteer basis right now but since she's planning on a future in medicine of some sort it can only be good. She's also put in an application to be considered for an RA position next year which will give her free dorm living and preserve her college fund for future schooling. 

My kid is doing equally well. Probably got the first B of her life. She's gone through about 6 different career decisions this semester as she's exposed to new ideas and new struggles. Normal college stuff. I admit to being less supportive than I should be as she swaps from "I'm going to be a doctor!" to "I'm going to be an elementary school teacher!" I'm still very much in the $/paycheck mentality as far as schooling and I need to remember that this is her life and she needs to end up some place she's happy. 

If I had children and wanted them to go to a good college and still have money left over to retire on, I would look into immigrating to another country in the developed world. university education is much more affordable in many countries.  For the parents on the board, if you are a college degreed professional under 40,  I have heard there are a number of countries in the world that will be interested in having you move in.  I believe Australia is one. 

Depending on your ancestry, some countries are open to giving you dual citizenship if you have ancestor born there. I know someone whose family background is Polish. He is going the process of getting citizenship for his family so they have a rights to live and go to school in the EU.

Its something to think about.  

My brother made this deal with his girls. 

"Go to college on loans / part-time & summer work.  When you finish and have a degree in hand, I'll make the loan payments.  If you don't finish, the payments are on you."

He is now on the hook for daughter #1, who just finished her mechanical engineering degree and will be starting her first job in January.

I got my degree thanks to the VA. the only good thing to come out of my father being medically discharged from the Navy.

I remember reading years ago that the only reason College is so expensive is precisely because anybody can get a loan to cover it. My own college (now a university) went from $75 a credit hour when I started back in 89 to over $400 a credit hour. I had thought to take a few classes and backed away when I saw that

Picture and everything eh?  That’s a lot of work for a canoe.

(already reported by two others)

Regarding the issue:  I see the real solution as online college.  For many college classes, there is no reason to spend huge money to go to a giant campus.

Easy financing has made houses stupid expensive, now college.  What next?

Education

Medical

Insurance/Financial/Real estate

Government/Law Enforcement

All of the above seem to have entered into a spiral where they have  transitioned from being socially symbiotic institutions to  a parasitic business model. That never ends well since most parasites usually end up dining on a dying or dead meal with no awareness that they killed it.

Pete

She even replied to me. Brooke is kind of cute, maybe I should ask her to go for a paddle:}

In reply to D2W :

Donald?..is that You?

Apparently, in this great white north socialist paradise, you don't have to pay tuition after age 65. 

I think I might retire someday and get a history degree.

Edit:  Go watch John Mulaneys most recent special on Netflix- Kid Gorgeous.  I can't find a clip of it on Youtube, but he does about ten minutes on his alumni association asking for money, and his past tuition.  Super funny, and pertinent to this thread.

ProDarwin said:

I don't understand why the co-op system hasn't caught on more.  Its so vastly superior to internships for both parties involved.

Back in the dark ages, Clemson only had co-ops for engineering students that I am aware of.   Good friend of mine did it that way and has spent his entire career at Michelin.    

aircooled said:

Regarding the issue:  I see the real solution as online college.  For many college classes, there is no reason to spend huge money to go to a giant campus.

Easy financing has made houses stupid expensive, now college.  What next?

The on-line schools are hardly cheap.