Consumer Reports car buying issue

I've never read this thing, but my neighbor gave me his copy since I "like cars". I read it today and am baffled.

Here's why: they give all of these suggestions on good new cars to buy, but then in the finding for older cars it is almost all Toyota/Lexus. So if they say an older Toyota/Lexus is a safe buy for an older car, wouldn't it be obvious that the best new cars are Toyota/Lexus?

Almost end of rant...

In their Ultra-Luxury category, the Tesla Model S is top dog with a tied overall score to the Lexus LS460L, presumably because it scored a perfect 100 in their road test even though it did worse in ride quality and comfort. This makes no sense to me.

/rant

I can't believe people take this magazine so seriously!

That's a magazine for appliance purchasers.

It's not for us. First, I don't by new cars. Second, newer cars are reliable enough that I buy what I want, not what's most "reliable."

We are car guys, after all, and reliability is way down the priority list after things like HP, weight, suspension type, track ability, max tire width, etc.

On a positive note, they did like the miata!

If you listen to their podcasts, the guys evaluating the cars for CR are enthusiasts and are pretty even-handed in their car evaluations. They realize that their audience, however, is looking to Consumer Reports to recommend the safest and most reliable daily transportation so their official ratings reflect that focus.

iadr wrote: I work currently for Mazda. They have some small but ongoing quality issues in Mexico where most but not all 3's are made- wheel bearings, heater controls, highly premature brake wear.

What do you think is the reason for those issues?

Consumer Reports is bullE36 M3. Drank the Toyota cool-Aid too long.

They reviewed the Pontiac Vibe. The engine was harsh, and buzzy. The Toyota Matrix was smooth and responsive.

Same car, same engine. Not biased at all, huh?

Whether or not you agree or disagree with their assessments, Consumer Reports is the closest thing we have to an unbiased evaluation of virtually every car for sale in the US. Their reliability data is based on owner feedback. What other publication offers this information?

Those who point to an imagined "Pro-Toyota bias" should check this years Brand rankings. I believe that Audi is at or near the top, as is Porsche.

I won't hold up CR as the most wonderful car-buying guidance in the world, but it is certainly a source of information that I want to peruse before I commit my money in the marketplace.

smokindav wrote: We are car guys, after all, and reliability is way down the priority list after things like HP, weight, suspension type, track ability, max tire width, etc.

Maybe for you, not for me. Reliability is very high on the priority list. As much as I love cars, don't have time to deal with a needy diva.

I don't subscribe to CR, as I don't have time to read it, but their reliability ratings I think are pretty spot on. Their subjective opinions...well, remember their audience.

If you're going to buy a new car that sells in high enough numbers for Consumer Reports' subscriber's data to be statistically meaningful, then yes, that data is useful. Unfortunately, historically most of the cars that I find "interesting" haven't been sufficiently well-represented in their customer base to have statistically significant numbers of responders.

Their written reviews & opinions generally reflect a goal of minimizing TCO and transportation-as-appliance, rather than driver involvement.

iadr wrote:

red_stapler wrote:

iadr wrote: I work currently for Mazda. They have some small but ongoing quality issues in Mexico where most but not all 3's are made- wheel bearings, heater controls, highly premature brake wear.

What do you think is the reason for those issues?

Well for one (since I can't look inside a wheel bearing), the brake rotors are pitted and full of inclusions- and they rust, starting from those inclusions, while sitting on the showroom floor, whereas the Japanese built stuff the rotors look good- smooth clear metal, flash zinc plated over all, which remains on the non wearing surfaces (the Mex are not plated). I would *think* that this alone could explain the premature pad wear, but pad material could also be an issue. The pads do not interchange between the Mex and Japanese cars, though the calipers supposedly are both Tokico designs. Pads for the Mex cars are Mitsubishi interchangeble, where the Japanese builts are - (I think?, we aren't changing them often enough yet!) still Ford Focus/Volvo C30 alikes as they have been since 2004. Actually that might be worded wrong- I believe it is correct to say Mazda did the vast majority of design on those platforms. The heater controls are simply that the injection moulded plastic clamps for the cables, and levers the cables act on, are crap fitment/quality. We get a bag of little white plastic bits, and rip the dashboard apart, put them in under warranty- there is a long standing TSB. Presumably that means they corrected the issue. Back to wheel bearings, the Japanese use a press in bearing, where the bearing alone is replaced (at a lot of work, typically around 65-85K miles in harsh Canadian weather). The Mex built ones use a unitized hub& bearing assembly. Their lifespan is less consistent, but we've seen too many fail before 50K miles. Those thumbnail estimates are miles converted from Km, btw.

That all sounds like issues within the supply chain and not the people assembling the car.

Appleseed wrote: Consumer Reports is bullE36 M3. Drank the Toyota cool-Aid too long. They reviewed the Pontiac Vibe. The engine was harsh, and buzzy. The Toyota Matrix was smooth and responsive. Same car, same engine. Not biased at all, huh?

I hear this a lot, and today thought "what the hell, let's see if it's true" and bought a month of CR online. Guess what? Neither the "1st Gen" Matrix platforms were road-tested. The 2nd gens were, but... here's the deal:

CR On the Vibe said: The Vibe, a twin of the Toyota Matrix, uses a 1.8-liter four-cylinder that drones loudly and performs modestly. GT models use a stronger version of this engine and come only with a six-speed manual. Handling is fairly nimble, and the ride is compliant if a little jittery. Access is very easy, and the rear seat is quite roomy. The driving position is only so-so. The optional AWD system works well but hurts acceleration and fuel economy. Folding the rear seats creates a large, flat load floor. Overall, this is a sensible alternative to a small SUV. Stability control became available in 2005, but may be difficult to find. The Vibe was redesigned for 2009 but dropped after 2010 with the rest of Pontiac.

Ok, there's your engine comments. Let's see the Matrix overview:

CR On the Matrix said: This Corolla-based small wagon is available with either front- or all-wheel drive. The 1.8-liter four-cylinder drones loudly and performs modestly. XRS models use a more powerful engine and come only with a six-speed manual and FWD. Handling is fairly nimble, and the ride is compliant if a little jittery. Access is very easy, and the rear seat is quite roomy. The optional AWD system works well but hurts acceleration and fuel economy. Folding the rear seats creates a large, flat load floor. The Matrix was redesigned for 2009 with more powerful engines and readily available ESC. The ride isn't harsh, but it doesn't feel steady, even on the highway. Hard plastics make the interior feel cheap. Some edges aren't well finished, and the headliner looks like cardboard. 2013 was the last year for the Matrix. Related models: Pontiac Vibe.

Both vehicles are recommended by CR. The 2.4L Matrix earned a 72, the 1.8L Vibe a 69. Identical predicted reliability.

I'm going to call this myth: Busted.

Great info. I'm not a CR subscriber, or put much stock into their opinion of performance cars. However, I also think they get a ton of undue hate just for the sake of hate.

Klayfish wrote: Great info. I'm not a CR subscriber, or put much stock into their opinion of performance cars. However, I also think they get a ton of undue hate just for the sake of hate.

Mostly, CR gets hated on by the people who love the cars they (generally correctly) identify as rolling E36 M3boxes.

In reply to Osterkraut:

Try the Isuzu Rodeo / Honda Passport.

Let us also not forget that this is the online version, and unless they are page-by-page PDFs of the magazine issues, revisionism is not out of the question.

Duke wrote: Let us also not forget that this is the online version, and unless they are page-by-page PDFs of the magazine issues, revisionism is not out of the question.

They are knowledgable, certainly enough to know that a Vibe is a Matrix and so on. As others have said, they just have different priorities than a lot of enthusiasts do. Sample size is an issue, to be sure.

At the end of the day, CR's auto data is just another data point along with JD Power, Truecar, model-specific forums, etc. It's not the gospel, but it's not worthless, either.

But when I need a new stove, I go straight to CR.

Somewhere around 1980, I read a CR review of the BMW E21 and they totally lost me when they concluded with “it’s a lot of money for such a small car”.

I thought “oh man, you guys so don’t get it” and I haven’t paid much attention to them since.

Duke wrote: In reply to Osterkraut: Try the Isuzu Rodeo / Honda Passport. Let us also not forget that this is the online version, and unless they are page-by-page PDFs of the magazine issues, revisionism is not out of the question.

I wondered if I should worry about someone saying they retconned their report...

As for the Passport, all I could find was a crash test video. Which was of the Rodeo, and they mentioned they were identical.

As a do some Googlin', I find lots of folks claiming miss matches like that, but zero actual evidence of it. In fact, I've found a lot of people able to counter-cite most of the claims.

Here's a short little article with some insight: Link.

I'm officially raising the bullE36 M3 flag on these claims.