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Mike
Mike GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/10/16 11:33 a.m.

I've been thinking about what would be involved to take a vehicle from not being an RV to being an RV.

I'm not really locked in to a specific layout, but for the sake of conversation, I'm presently thinking about vehicles either with a box on the back, or with the ability to accommodate a box on the back. This seems to allow for a large number of potential chassis choices. Overall vehicle length goal would be somewhere around 20' so it is easy to park at home, and isn't too unwieldy on the road.

General goals are:

  • Composting toilet
  • Enough tank and power to support a couple days boondocking
  • Standard shore power/water/sewer connections
  • Range, microwave/convection combo, fridge
  • Separate shower (a "wet bath" is a total non-starter)
  • Sleeps two in something approaching a queen bed
  • Work/dining chair and table space
  • Hookups for our electronics in a number of places (phones, tablet and laptop all charge on USB fortunately)

Has anyone here done something like this?

Any pointers to good resources would be appreciated. I think planning it out in depth sounds like a fun project. Any suggestions of good books on RV electrical system design, plumbing design (propane and water) and mechanical engineering/CAD (I have a Mac) would be helpful.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/10/16 11:42 a.m.

you mean like some of the expedition campers?

Mike
Mike GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/10/16 11:50 a.m.
mad_machine wrote: you mean like some of the expedition campers?

Well, a surplus S&S M1078 LMTV was what I had in my brain right now, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
7/10/16 12:02 p.m.

Conversion vans (and even conversion suburbans) make a good start. The reason being lots of the smaller ancillary stuff has probably been upgraded already. Ie alternator, battery, heavier cooling and suspenion even. Of course each conversion company is different....

Mike
Mike GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/10/16 1:26 p.m.

In reply to RossD:

That's a thought, but that forces me to fit everything inside of a van, building a sort of class B. I'm hoping for more of a class C RV when I'm done.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn UltimaDork
7/10/16 1:33 p.m.

Unless you need the offroad capability, I'd think an Isuzu box truck or similar would be easier to find, easier to maintain and less expensive. There has to be tons of them on the used market.

The Canadian
The Canadian Reader
7/10/16 1:45 p.m.

26Ft uhaul with a door to connect the cab to the box. like this:Homemade RV Converted from Moving Truck

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/10/16 1:51 p.m.
stuart in mn wrote: Unless you need the offroad capability, I'd think an Isuzu box truck or similar would be easier to find, easier to maintain and less expensive. There has to be tons of them on the used market.

Isuzus are good trucks. Of all the trucks I have driven over the years, the ones that gave the best mileage and least amount of problems were the Isuzus

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/10/16 2:14 p.m.

Check with your state, but there can be a fair amount of expense and paperwork to re-title a commercial vehicle or bus, as an RV. Off the top of my head, SC requires an inspection to prove that toilets, stoves, beds etc., have been added, as well as a fair amount of paperwork and $$$. One of the appeals to SanFord, was all of the paperwork had been done and it came with a RV title.

Other than that, it's just mechanicals. You might check with Skoolie.net. They have a section on bus conversions that goes into detail on adding facilities, and converting a box truck wouldn't be much different.

One other thing you may run into, a lot of campgrounds don't like "different" vehicles or vehicles past a certain age. Not a problem in state and federal campgrounds, but can be a issue if you want to hang out with the cool/rich kids, at the private campgrounds.

dankspeed
dankspeed HalfDork
7/10/16 3:18 p.m.

Not sure if you're aware of expedition portal but it's a great site and has a few forums dedicated to the exact thing you're wanting to do.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
7/10/16 3:26 p.m.

FWIW, there is nothing in this thread so far that is only 20' long.

The cheap way to do it would be a surplus truck combined with a trashed RV (roof damage, wrecked, etc). I've got one in my yard I'm saving for a project like this.

The individual RV components (like a composting toilet, ship-to-shore connections, and a 3 way fridge) are pretty expensive individually. By the time you add storage tanks, gas pipe, appliances, hardware, fittings, etc. it can add up. A beat up camper can be found with all the needed parts intact for next to nothing.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/10/16 3:58 p.m.

FYI, based on my experience - I'd go all electric instead of a 3-way fridge. At least in the Westfalia size, the 3-way was more of a cooler than a fridge. Add solar and the fridge will run forever.

This would be a fun project to do in a big box instead of working around the constraints of a van.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
7/10/16 4:19 p.m.

Buy lmtv. Fit custom flat bed designed to hold a pickup bed popup camper or anothe camper. Here's a mitsu Fuso fg for example.

Done.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/10/16 5:13 p.m.

That reminds me, this is what Zach Bowman of The Drive is using for his year of perambulations. 2003 Dodge 2500 with the bed removed and a camper designed for a flatbed dropped on top. Seemed pretty cool to me when I saw it and should be right at 20', but you do have to deal with things like a toilet in the kitchen. The price you pay for having a crew cab, I guess.

Pics can be found in this particular update, and in his other missives from the road.

http://www.thedrive.com/travel/2237/breaking-down-on-the-loneliest-road-in-america

Mike
Mike GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/10/16 5:17 p.m.
SVreX wrote: FWIW, there is nothing in this thread so far that is only 20' long. The cheap way to do it would be a surplus truck combined with a trashed RV (roof damage, wrecked, etc). I've got one in my yard I'm saving for a project like this. The individual RV components (like a composting toilet, ship-to-shore connections, and a 3 way fridge) are pretty expensive individually. By the time you add storage tanks, gas pipe, appliances, hardware, fittings, etc. it can add up. A beat up camper can be found with all the needed parts intact for next to nothing.

The LMTV specs say it's 21'1" long. I was talking "around" 20' and considered it close enough.

That's a brilliant idea, using a damaged RV as a donor. I am almost certainly going to try that.

Mike
Mike GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/10/16 5:22 p.m.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Buy lmtv. Fit custom flat bed designed to hold a pickup bed popup camper or anothe camper. Here's a mitsu Fuso fg for example. Done.

It certainly is the easy button. The only problem I see is the tanks will be higher than they otherwise could have been. No reason I couldn't do something about that if I decided I cared. In fact, from the looks of things, that might have been done in the one you shared. It looks like there are at least two tanks hanging off the near side of the chassis.

lrrs
lrrs Reader
7/10/16 5:56 p.m.

At the end of the season, low milage leaky class c's are pretry abundant and dirt cheap.

Strip out what you want to reuse, trash the leaky class c box, and build a new box, reinstall plumbing, fridge, heater....

Last fall I looked a a leaky ford 2000 class c with a 460 and only 27k miles, for 2k. I wishould I took my advice above.
Steve

EvanR
EvanR SuperDork
7/10/16 11:08 p.m.

When I built my tiny camper, I joined the Teardrops and Tiny Travel Trailers forum at tnttt.com

I realize that you're looking at something larger in scope, but folks there know a lot about DIY RV's and campers of all sizes.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Dork
7/11/16 7:07 a.m.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Buy lmtv. Fit custom flat bed designed to hold a pickup bed popup camper or anothe camper. Here's a mitsu Fuso fg for example. Done.

I've looked into the "convert box truck/ambulance/van" thing and Mr. Caffeine's suggestion seems to be the way to go- new RV stuff is expensive, and old RVs are cheap, especially if they need work.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
7/11/16 8:49 a.m.

I've looked into it since the only RV's that are configured how I want (toy-hauler style RV) are deep into 6-figures.

There are a ton of videos on YouTube about home-built RV's. The Sportsmobile site has a neat "DIY design" kit you can download.

I agree to some extent about buying a used RV as a parts donor. The composting toilet will still need to be sourced separately as pretty much all RV's use a black water tank.

Toyman's comment about checking your state registration requirements bears repeating. Go there before doing anything else. It's definitely worth doing if you can. In PA, the annual registration costs for an RV (a "house car") are substantially less than other vehicles of similar weight.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/11/16 8:59 a.m.

composting toilets are not hard to find.

airhead

Nature's Head

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
7/11/16 9:04 a.m.

In reply to mad_machine:

Nobody said they are hard to find, just not standard RV equipment.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/11/16 9:34 a.m.

they have a certain "ick" factor to a lot of people.. not that driving around with a few dozen gallons of E36 M3 and corruption under the bed is any better.

I did once see an RV with the cap off of the black water tank. The inner valve must have been open too.. as he went around the corner, more than a few "solids" cam flying out to roll across the road

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/11/16 9:46 p.m.
Mike wrote: * Composting toilet

To each their own. I have never experienced and "odor-free" toilet being anything of the sort.

* Enough tank and power to support a couple days boondocking

Not difficult, just tends to be a bit expensive if you are trying to buy an RV tank. Any suitable water tank will do. Find one that fits. Depending on the vehicle, consider mounting it up high with a fill port down low. That way it not only avoide consuming floor space, you won't need a pump unless you plan on showering.

Power is conundrum. Solar won't do much good for two reasons: 1) its quite possible that many of your camping spots will be very shaded, and 2) limited real estate for adequate wattage even in bright sun. I would suggest a bank of 4 deep cycle batteries and a small quiet generator, like one of the super-quiet Honda 1000w units. The engine should also have a good adequate alternator on an isolated solenoid. I rigged one up with a three way switch that allowed the coach and van batteries to be always isolated, always connected, or connected when there is oil pressure + switch on. That way you can run the coach dead and still start the engine, and also if the engine battery is dead you can flip a switch and get a jump start from the coach.

For an alternator, find a good (big) alternator that has plenty of amperage (100 or more). Don't use a typical GM 10 or 12si alternator that has been modified for more amperage. Those are designed for thumping stereos and intermittent draw. If you try to put 100 amps through it to charge 4 dead batteries, it will last about 20 minutes.

LED lights will also be your friend. If you want to watch a movie, do it on something like a laptop or iPod. LED TVs still draw pretty hefty amperage with their backlighting.

* Standard shore power/water/sewer connections

Pretty easy plumbing waste pipes. Most of it is typical PVC or ABS pipe with final fittings that are RV-specific. I suggest using Schedule 40 instead of the thin-wall drain pipe. Vibes and twists can split thin wall. Same goes for shore water. I would use an RV fresh water flange, then just plumb it from there. RV Industry standard is PEX and sharkbite fittings. Dead nuts reliable, easy repairs, can take tons of vibes and abuse.

Another not-too expensive addition would be an RV water heater. For boondocking, that means needing propane, but they make them gas/electric so when you do plug in it operates without gas.

For electrical, use stranded wire, not NM-B. Vibes and twists are handled better by the stranded. There are several options you can use as far as 12v/120v, but for your purpose I might suggest primarily 12v. Many LED lights are 12v anyway, and any RV appliances will have 12v capability. My trailer fridge works on 12v, 120v or gas.

RVs like park models and mobile homes are almost entirely 120v because they are nearly always plugged in. Small RVs like pickup campers and pop-ups tend to lean more toward 12v. If you do most things as 120v, you'll need a monster (wasteful) inverter. Conversely, if you built a park model with mostly 12v you'll need a monster (wasteful) converter to take 120v down to DC. So I would suggest an RV fridge (very efficient) that can run on 12v or propane, possibly a propane stove, 12v LED lighting, propane/120v water heater, then the only things you'd need to invert for are things like a microwave. Then you could run the engine to recharge or keep a small generator to recharge.

In short, wire for both; have a breaker box for 120v wired to a 30A cord, and also have a fuse panel for 12v run to all the appliances. From there its up to you on how to supply 12v: You can just have a regulated supply that charges the batteries when you have shore power, and/or just use the engine's alternator or the generator.

Technically, you legally have to have either a physical limit switch when using a generator, or a way to prevent the generator from running when plugged in.

* Range, microwave/convection combo, fridge

Most RV fridges are pretty reliable. I would consider this a must. Inverting 12v to run a 120v fridge will run a battery dead in hours. I wouldn't hesitate using one from a junkyard. There were a few years of Dometic that sucked (circuit boards liked to fry), but most are serviceable and reliable. The microwave will be your big current draw. I would not invert juice for that either. Shore power or generator only.

* Separate shower (a "wet bath" is a total non-starter)

are you planning cold weather? An external shower is super easy to plumb. Put a thing on the outside that lets you hang a shower curtain and shower outside. Some small campers make a bathroom where the whole floor is a shower pan. The whole bathroom is the shower stall. Also made bathroom cleaning really nice. Hose the whole thing down.

* Sleeps two in something approaching a queen bed

I suggest a queen size mattress, then

* Work/dining chair and table space

Unless you're offroading, any table and chairs will do. Many RVs use a table and chairs that aren't anchored to the floor and they stay in place just fine. I would hit up IKEA and find a table that mounts to the wall and hinges down for more space. Folding chairs also make more space.

I was going to make a secretary for my RV: A book case with a fold-down desk, but the desk part could fold out in two pieces. Fold down one section for a desk, fold out two leaves and its a dining counter. Vertical storage space and a folding dining area.

* Hookups for our electronics in a number of places (phones, tablet and laptop all charge on USB fortunately)

Like I mentioned above, use stranded 14 ga wire and have fun. When I say stranded, I mean the spools of single-conductor THHN. Not single strand NM-B (romex) and not SOOW (extension cord type), but the rigid stranded THHN for all the 120v. 12v can be typical fine-stranded 12v wire.

Has anyone here done something like this?

I have been planning it for years. I want to turn a tractor trailer into an RV

Any pointers to good resources would be appreciated. I think planning it out in depth sounds like a fun project. Any suggestions of good books on RV electrical system design, plumbing design (propane and water) and mechanical engineering/CAD (I have a Mac) would be helpful.

Most of the plumbing and electrical I've already kinda hit in a very remedial way. There isn't too much different from household wiring and plumbing except some materials differences.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/11/16 11:15 p.m.

I disagree about solar being not much good. We've got a single 100W panel on the roof of our Westy, and it'll top up the batteries in no time. There's room for 4x as much power on the roof of the sort of thing we're talking about here - heck, I've got enough room to mount at least 300W if necessary. Now, we run all LED lights, cook with gas and don't have a TV or laptop. The only major draw is the 12v fridge, at about 1 Ah for a typical setting. We're usually fully charged by mid-morning.

An ammonia (3-way) fridge is an absolute power hog when you run it on 12v. I actually burned out a couple of golf cart solenoids before I discovered this. They're very efficient on propane. So I'd consider them two-way - propane or 120v, with 12v only for short-term emergencies.

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