Copyright question

I have a question about copyrights.

I am doing precision industrial laser engraving and cutting, and am interested in developing relationships with artists to engrave their artwork on various materials.

I am trying to promote new relationships, but a lot of artists can't really envision their work done this way, so I have to show them samples/ examples.

Obviously, I can't steal someone's artwork to sell.

Can I use images to promote my work without selling the product? In other words, can I transfer an image to laser engraving in order to display my work with no intent of selling the image? Keep in mind the product (service) I am selling is the manufacturing capability, not the art.

I'm looking for an entry level starting position with artists in a particular genre which will go well with my work, but they are gonna need to see the work before they are ready to commit their art to it. Kind of a catch 22.

How about photographic images taken by others of equipment that is similar to ours?

How about photographic images we have taken of other people's equipment?

I am trying to take intellectual property rights very seriously, but there are some pretty high hurdles at the beginning.

Thanks!

I think you're going to find its safest to use images or logos that have no copyright. What kind of image are you wanting to engrave. There are quote a few good artists and photographs in here that are probably willing to help you out.

I don't know exactly how the law works, but aren't certain things (images, etc) considered "public domain" after X years? If so, you could use an image of something that has reached that benchmark.

You can use your own photos all day long.

the answer is hotlink

Can you describe what sort of artwork?

For a copyright lawsuit to go against you the copyright holder would have to be able to prove that your actions caused them to lose money, and they have to have a solid dollar amount.

If you're not selling the art, there can be no losses for the copyright holder.

how about offering to do an artist's work for free or commission?

Put Mickey Mouse on it. Disney is really mellow about copyright.

Anything on Wikipedia should be public domain. If you're not going to sell it, you should be fine.

Grab an image of something from the public domain. Do the Mona Lisa or Water Lilies or whatever suits your technology best. There is plenty of art that public.

Keith wrote: Put Mickey Mouse on it. Disney is really mellow about copyright.

You are a bad person.

Copyright law gets pretty complicated because the law has changed several time through the years, so different standards apply depending on when the artwork was completed, whether or not it was formally registered, whether or not the registration was renewed, etc. For sure artwork and photos done before 1923 are public domain (at least according to one source I consulted), after that it gets more difficult -the usual response you get is "it depends". In general, for anything post-1923, either get a signed permission granting you the right to use the piece for demonstration purposes, not for sale, or use your own work/photos. For what you describe, I wouldn't think this would be difficult. Getting permission in writing protects everyone. It's really easy for copyrighted material to "get loose" on the internet, and then the artist has to get all huffy and protect his/her rights to keep it from becoming public domain through nonprotection of those rights - sort of like protecting trademarks. I've had to do this with a couple of my photographs that someone purchased as a greeting card, then scanned and posted on the net without permission. I had to contact them and get them to add the (c) notice and "used by permission, not for reproduction" notice or remove from the net - which is almost impossible to do, once the horse has left the barn.

I'd have to follow suit in saying use artwork that's public domain. Depending on the capabilities of your engraving equipment, you might want to use something like Leonardo da Vinci's sketchwork if it cannot deposit color somehow. Then you'd use something that would show up well, but is not anything resembling a line drawing. You might want to use something like the Conversion of St. Paul by Caravaggio. I would think a chiaroscuro type painting would have good contrast for use in laser etching.

It probably would be more worth your while to use recognizable artwork in the first place, that way the artist can compare it to an image he's probably seen many times anyway.

DaveEstey wrote: If you're not selling the art, there can be no losses for the copyright holder.

Tell that to the MPAA/RIAA.

+1 on finding public domain art. Quick google search should net you more than you could ever use.

DaveEstey wrote: For a copyright lawsuit to go against you the copyright holder would have to be able to prove that your actions caused them to lose money, and they have to have a solid dollar amount. If you're not selling the art, there can be no losses for the copyright holder.

I'm pretty sure Dave is right. If not legally, at least practically. I'd say worst case is you'd get a cease and desist order.

mad_machine wrote: how about offering to do an artist's work for free or commission?

That is the intent, the approach, and the business model. Should be pretty lucrative for them, too.

Just find it to be a funny relationship getting started. They are a pretty suspicious bunch.

While I like the idea of using public domain work, it's kind of hard to find high resolution digital versions of pre-1923 work.

Anyone know some good sources?

SVreX wrote: While I like the idea of using public domain work, it's kind of hard to find high resolution digital versions of pre-1923 work. Anyone know some good sources?

...as was mentioned earlier:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

They have lots of good stuff. For instance, this is free to use: 1971 elfin 600 ff and 1970 lotus 61 ff

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lotus_racing_cars

Most of the images there are pretty low resolution.

I should clarify...

Photographs work, but I'm not really looking for them. Maybe some Ansel Adams stuff, or other detailed black and white...

I'm looking for high contrast detailed artwork.. Think lithographs, some modern art, metal graphics, anime, fantasy art, maybe some of the great pop artists like Warhol...

DaveEstey wrote: For a copyright lawsuit to go against you the copyright holder would have to be able to prove that your actions caused them to lose money, and they have to have a solid dollar amount. If you're not selling the art, there can be no losses for the copyright holder.

This is the answer (according to my live-in attorney), though if you need more assurance, a call/visit to an intellectual property lawyer would be in order.

Actually, my in-house counsel has offered to put in a call to her IP attorney colleague if that would be helpful to you. PM me if you'd like to take it off the boards for more direct communication.

how about if i take a high res digital picture of the Dali above my fireplace - how does that work?

it's my picture but his work. and if you think it might work i can take one, it's badass.

In reply to alex:

Thank you. PM sent.

In reply to patgizz:

I's love to play with a Dali image, even if I don't know the correct legal answer...

...yet!

I'll try to get one without the glare of the glass...