Cracked: The Occupy Wallstreet Generation

I really hate entitlement thinking.

SVreX wrote: I really hate entitlement thinking.

Same here. I worked my ass off. I have never asked for a handout. I have worked for everything I have IN SPITE of people trying to take it away from me. Those that think they "deserve" something when they have never worked a day in their life, that really pisses me off.

If you want it, youw will work for it. If you don't, then continue to sit there and make excuses about how you aren't getting everyting your heart desires because of evil "rich people".

In reply to ransom:

The daughter and I sat down when she was a freshman in HS and I explained to her the financial situation. Dad isn't going to be able to put you through college and borrowing $50K to go is STUPID and isn't going to happen. You will have to have scholarships if you want to be anything other than a wage slave the rest of your live. She busted her butt for 4 years. Scholarships and grants cover 80% of her education expenses. A rich aunt seeing that she was honestly busting her butt to make it happen helps with some of the rest and the daughter works to fill in the gaps. My total out of pocket is minimal. If she hadn't busted her butt to make it happen she would honestly be at the local technical school getting a degree in something else. She knew it as truth, because dad is mean.

Her older brother didn't bust his butt. He got no assistance, he didn't go to college, he got married and has three kids. He's just like me. He's living with his decisions just like I did. He works hard, and is moving up in the world. Guess what, he's happy even though he didn't go to college. Happiness is a decision you make. It doesn't magically happen.

Unfortunately, sometimes life isn't fair. A lot of kids these days are sold a bill of goods. Be it that they have to go to college, or they have to buy the latest crap to be accepted by their friends or they have to make a lot of money to be happy. The gullible and vane fall for it. My kids have grown up with a certain amount of pessimism. They don't expect anything from life that they haven't had to work or fight for. Probably because I haven't ever given them anything they didn't earn. There have been many times they thought their dad was a royal shiny happy person. I am not and never have tried to be their friend. I am their parent. They are going into the real world expecting nothing and with their eyes wide open.

It all ties back in to the trophies for everyone. Only the tough survive, and we as a society no longer teach that. It is therefore the parents job to do so. I teach my kids to be tough and to work for what they get, and they do.

Guess who I learned my parenting skills from...My father, the sometimes shiny happy person who let me learn from my bad decisions and taught me about happiness. I thank the Good Lord for him every day.

In reply to Bobzilla:

Well, I hope you're right about the warnings working. At least somebody finally addressed how to end this issue, regardless of who's to blame.

There is no "issue". Its a group of whiny, self-entitled, self centered "me-firsts" who want to blame someone for their mistakes. That's not an issue. That's a personal problem. One which I have already dealt with, and learned how to get through without someone holding my damn hand.

Toyman01's kids cloned my kids!

Bobzilla wrote: So.... who here purchases a car without knowing how they are going to, or even IF they are going to pay for it? Go to the grocery store, put $500 of food on the cnveyor belt and not know if or when you can pay it off? How about your electric bill? Do you run every light on in the house, set the thermostat at 90 and then not know how you're going to pay your bill next month?

That wasn't my point. Tuition rose a bit above 20% in the 4 years I was at college. That isn't exactly something that you can plan for. It isn't like inflation. The state government can change its mind on how it wants to fund the schools or the school can randomly change what it requires in terms of cost.

I went to a cheaper college. Currently the in-state tuition for 15 hours is $4050. When I started it was around $3200 for 15. Then you add on to that they started requiring all freshmen and sophomore who don't live with their parents within a 5 mile radius to live on campus (only exceptions are if you are married or over 25) which cost at least $5260 a semester. Plus they recently started requiring all students (no matter what) to have an overpriced meal plan (starting at $200 but that hardly gets any meals) but if you live on campus as a freshmen or sophomore you have to $1230 meal plan. This is a college which is considered a deal in the south east.

I agree there are a lot of people act entitled but the cost of education has gotten way out of hand.

Toyman01 wrote: It all ties back in to the trophies for everyone.

Whatever else we agree or disagree on, we agree on this a lot. Or at the very least that it's an awful practice and a terrible disservice to the kids it's inflicted on.

Wait.... $8k a year is "out of control"? We have a lot different idea about what that means.

OK, I've actually have two points of view here. First, college has always been expensive. I graduated in '86 and it was expensive then, but I do agree it is almost out of hand now. My sister is a dean at a university, so I also have a bit of insight there too.

First though, I have to agree it is up to the student and parent to flush out the degree in which they are going to be paying for. This isn't that hard people. There are plenty of resources available to help you out. If you want to major in women's studies and can't find a job paying $100k it is your own damn fault. I don't want to pay for your total inability to form a coherent thought.

I also got a degree in broadcasting/commercial art, and you know what, after 3 or so years without landing one in my field, I started my own company with only $1,000 in the bank. Yes it was hard, but I eventually landed a good job with large company. I stayed there 15 years until 2008 when the bottom fell out and we lost about 20 contracts in one month (mostly govt. contractors with canceled funding). Now I am doing something totally different, but a few things I learned in college still pan out. Mainly it is the ability to learn. College should teach you how to learn more than anything else. It's a point most people miss, because really, what you learn in school from a techincal point of view will be old technology in short order.

For costs, I have a huge, huge problem with college costs. I do believe there is a corelation to the ability for students to get loans and the costs charged by universities. I also know what the average pay scale is for tenured professors at least in Alabama, Arkansas and Kansas. If you are a tenured professor, you are paid pretty well (6 figures in many cases), if you are a dean, you are six figures plus. And granted you have some steep operational costs, but I also know of many schools looking for ways to spend money so they can up their budgets for the following year. Many times "preferred" state schools will bleed money away from the smaller schools by simply wasting the money to get more the next year. Like any government operation, the amount of waste is staggering.

I also have several friend's without degrees, and they all now have good paying jobs, although at one point, they were all self employed, or are still. You don't need a college degree to succeed, but you have to work hard either way. One other point on degrees, I do believe it will get you an interview quicker. If you are looking at resumes, you are far more likely to look at the guy with a degree, as fair or not as that is. So no matter what your degree, it does help somewhat.

But I have no sympathies at all for these whinning occupy guys and girls. If they want to protest something, how about their own stupidity. As someone said, what do you expect from people that got trophies for losing?

SVreX wrote: I really hate entitlement thinking.

I really hate judgmental attitudes. I also hate it when people don't know the difference between expectations and entitlement.

But the argument is moot, as you would judge without knowing someone. You don't know how many scholarships I received, how hard I worked in school, or what I've done. For every one of your daughter, there are 10 more who did the same thing and didn't get anywhere with it.

But, I should stop now. This is just me being self centered, whiny, and entitled. Considering I paid for my own schooling, I have no idea what I'm talking about. It's not like there is things like competitions for scholarships, and sometimes you simply don't get selected. That never happens. Your daughter beat XXX amount of candidates for those awards. She strove to be the best, and was. Not everyone gets to be the best, and as such, yes, your idea of someone getting a first rate education is elitist. Simply working hard and playing your cards right is NOT enough to get $100k in scholarships, and then without that money, you are limited in where you go. It's pretty straightforward.

So I'll stop now.

Oh, you're right. Life ain't fair. Never was. Never will be. Want to talk about not getting picked? I worked for 2 tyears for Air Force ROTC. I had the school decided, major, was going through their selection committee. I made it until May 1st, 27 days before I graduated to find out tha tI did not get selected, and therefor had no scholarship, no paid tuition, no guaranteed job.

Did I give up? Did I go sit in a cesspool and bitch? Nope. I busted but, got 2 smaller music scholarships, a student loan (without deferred payment) and worked my ass off to do what I needed.

If that is "judging" someone, than so be it. If you would rather sit and whine about what you're not getting for nothing rather than getting off of your pampered ass and doing it, then you deserve to be passed over, judged and called a lazy bastard. Harsh? Yep. It's life. Get over it because frankly, I am sick of paying for them.

racerdave600 wrote: For costs, I have a huge, huge problem with college costs. I do believe there is a corelation to the ability for students to get loans and the costs charged by universities. I also know what the average pay scale is for tenured professors at least in Alabama, Arkansas and Kansas. If you are a tenured professor, you are paid pretty well (6 figures in many cases), if you are a dean, you are six figures plus. And granted you have some steep operational costs, but I also know of many schools looking for ways to spend money so they can up their budgets for the following year. Many times "preferred" state schools will bleed money away from the smaller schools by simply wasting the money to get more the next year. Like any government operation, the amount of waste is staggering.

At UAH we have professor (who barely teaches any classes and isn't tenured) that gets paid something like $180k a year. The president at UAH got paid $400k a year. When you have that kind of cost of coarse the cost is going to get expensive.

Yep, shame on them for working to become a professor at a university. They shouldn't be paid that much. They should be working for minimum wage.

I'm sorry.... all this "waa waa waa! Look at what he makes its not fair" crap is just pathetic.

Bobzilla wrote: If that is "judging" someone, than so be it. If you would rather sit and whine about what you're not getting for nothing rather than getting off of your pampered ass and doing it, then you deserve to be passed over, judged and called a lazy bastard. Harsh? Yep. It's life. Get over it because frankly, I am sick of paying for them.

So you are saying you don't want to pay at all for higher education. I am talking about state schools. How are we as a nation supposed to compete on a international level if we don't have a competitive education system? I am not saying everyone should go to university but we still need people to go.

Bobzilla wrote: Yep, shame on them for working to become a professor at a university. They shouldn't be paid that much. They should be working for minimum wage. I'm sorry.... all this "waa waa waa! Look at what he makes its not fair" crap is just pathetic.

Why the hell do you want education to cost so damn much? I don't understand this seems just as stupid as the occupy wall street people who want a college degree in a useless field and expect a high paying job. I never said I expected them to get paid minimum wage but a lot of people go on about how much the president of the US gets and etc. This is a government paided position getting paided $400k a year. It isn't a private corporation which frankly I don't care how much they get paided. But this is money coming out of taxpayers pockets and rather then being used to help fund education it is getting paid to a president who frankly is useless.

Was English on your list of course studies in College?

OK, how much does a High School Super get paid? Locally, they make $100-250k. A year. Now, you expect someone who is in charge of a college, overseeing how many professors, thousands of students, etc to get paid less than a high school super? How does that make sense? How much would that college pres get paid in the corporate world running a business? Less than $400k? What about his years of education, his experience,his wisdom? are those meaningless to you?

Think about it. It's not the number you are pissed about. It's the fact that it's not what YOU are making. That is what has you pissed off.

I've never said I wanted college to be expensive. I am being realistic. If you want something from higher education, you have to expect to pay for it. If you can'r, there are lots of other options. That is what they DON'T want us saying.

Bobzilla wrote: OK, how much does a High School Super get paid? Locally, they make $100-250k. A year. Now, you expect someone who is in charge of a college, overseeing how many professors, thousands of students, etc to get paid less than a high school super? How does that make sense? How much would that college pres get paid in the corporate world running a business? Less than $400k? What about his years of education, his experience,his wisdom? are those meaningless to you?

Ok how about this how much does a college football coach get paid? There is so much waste in college education system you wouldn't believe it. Why is the cost of education system increasing at so much higher a rate then inflation? That was my original post and I got side tracked.

why? Supply/demand. People will stop going when the price is too high. People are still going in droves.... so the pricewill remain high. Simple economics.

As for the college football coach, a good one will have a successful football program. Brings in good money from the alumni, brings fans to the stadiums and students in the dorms. They make professional football players that earn MILLIONS. Bad example.

I'm not saying there isn't waste. There's waste in everything. No system is perfect.

Except I am talking about state colleges, they aren't trying to make a profit. Both the states I have experience in have cut funding for higher education recently. Doesn't like make sense that these also increase the cost of education?

Article. http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/statebriefs.ssf?/base/news/1210148313144511.xml&coll=2

they still are ran more like a business than a gov't program. Coaches still bring in students, which brings in revenue.

93EXCivic wrote: I don't think a lot of people realize how expensive education has gotten even at a public university.

probably true...this shocked me
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/10/15/occupy-wall-street-why-baby-boomers-don-t-understand-the-protests.html

Over the past year I was lucky enough to be jolted out of my own smugness and complacency by a series of painful encounters with recent law-school graduates. I began to investigate the question of how many law graduates were getting jobs as lawyers, and discovered that a shocking percentage—more than half—were not. Since I went to law school in the 1980s, the cost of legal education has quadrupled in real terms, thereby ensuring most current law students will graduate with six figures of debt from law school alone. Meanwhile legal employers are downsizing and outsourcing, to the point where the ratio between new lawyers and new jobs for lawyers is approximately two to one. And most of the new jobs don’t pay enough to allow even those who are lucky enough to get them to pay their educational debts.

So what I am reading is we should feel sorry because people did not research their intended career path to realize that it is oversaturated? Hmm.... nope. Sympathy, not feeling any.

Looks like back in the day, I picked a good time to drop out of jr high.

HiTempguy wrote:

SVreX wrote: I really hate entitlement thinking.

I really hate judgmental attitudes. I also hate it when people don't know the difference between expectations and entitlement. But the argument is moot, as you would judge without knowing someone. You don't know how many scholarships I received, how hard I worked in school, or what I've done. For every one of your daughter, there are 10 more who did the same thing and didn't get anywhere with it. But, I should stop now. This is just me being self centered, whiny, and entitled. Considering I paid for my own schooling, I have no idea what I'm talking about. It's not like there is things like competitions for scholarships, and sometimes you simply don't get selected. That never happens. Your daughter beat XXX amount of candidates for those awards. She strove to be the best, and was. Not everyone gets to be the best, and as such, yes, your idea of someone getting a first rate education is elitist. Simply working hard and playing your cards right is NOT enough to get $100k in scholarships, and then without that money, you are limited in where you go. It's pretty straightforward. So I'll stop now.

I didn't judge you. You are judging yourself.

I know nothing about you, other than what you are presenting here, and it frankly isn't very impressive. Of course I don't know how many scholarships you received. That's why I ASKED. (Although you didn't tell me). Would you care to answer, or complain?

You seem to have missed the part where I said my son had no scholarships.

You also seem to have conveniently missed the part where I said there are huge amounts of scholarship money that nobody tries to get. The fact is, my daughter DID NOT beat out a bunch of people for scholarships. She was the only one who applied in many instances.

I got a first rate education, though you would probably be unimpressed with the school I went to. So, who's the elistist?

Here's the simple formula. I am not limited in my ability to succeed, because I do not measure my possibilities by where I went to school, or what other people think of me, and I do not wait for, nor expect, ANYONE to take care of me. I do not need scholarships, or handouts, or anything else. I will not use any such lame excuses. Neither will my children.

You are self-limited by your false assumptions about higher education.