Custom shower in a kit

I'm going to be remodeling the only bathroom in the house starting in a little over a week.

Electrical and plumbing are covered, so no major concerns there.

Ignoring the logistics issues of remodeling (removing everything down to the framing) the only bathroom in the house, there is one are that is going to be a challenge.

The plan is to remove the tub and replace it with a custom walk in shower. I've done ceramic tile before, but never a full shower install.

Have any of you used the Kerdi membrane or shower kit from schluter? Shower kit

I'm looking for anyone's experience with this or similar products, and also any tips or trick you may have learned.

Thanks, Joe

Yes. Schluter products are top notch. Follow directions to a T and you can do a good job. Don't skip steps. I'm sitting in a shower right now waiting for my help to finish cutting more tiles for me .

Thanks for the feedback, that is what I was hoping to hear.

I have another question: I have seen lots of info online where people are applying the membrane and tile over drywall for the shower walls.

My gut reaction is that I don't feel comfortable using drywall and was going to use hardi-backer or similar on the walls and cement board on the floor in the rest of the bathroom.

The thought is if any water gets behind the membrane (I have a 13 and 8 year old boys so I expect water everywhere) the tile backer will hold up better than drywall.

Any drawback to that approach, or other suggestions?

Anyone who leaves drywall as a backer substrate for anything in a shower stall should not be trusted AT ALL. Regardless of what you read on the internet.

The Hardi tile backer (or similar cementuous product) is correct.

I just want to say, the title caught me off guard. I read that as "Customer showers in a kit" meaning a customer was taking a shower somewhere they shouldn't. As for the actual topic... I'm just here for the suggestions. We've been talking about taking out our tub in the master for a large walk in shower for years.

If it was my only bathroom, I'd be considering a high quality acrylic shower stall.

Looks great, easy to clean, never leak, and could cut several days off the construction process. Plumber could install it the same day he does the rough-in.

I am a pro. It would take me 3 days to build a shower surround (1 to build the base and backer, 1 to lay tile, and 1 to grout). An amateur could easily make a week out of it. If you are doing it on the weekends only, it could take a month.

That's a long time to go unwashed!

Kerdi products are awesome. I have installed a bunch of the stuff over the course of many years.. NEVER had a problem... and think it is WELL worth the money.

The only thing you have to be aware of when installing it is due to multiple layers of things in the corners you can build out the corners and edges quickly so you don't have an exactly flat surface anymore. Just be aware of it thinking about how the tile is going the lay and you will have no problems..

The instructions are good.. Just follow them and you will be just fine.

If you have never tiled a shower before you need to do the floor first.. Then if you can or have the time I like to even grout the floor before going up.. Either way let it set and cover it well with cardboard. drips of mortar when you return to grout are a PIA... Now keep in mind your floor isn't going to be a perfectly straight line along the bottom. in the Kerdi kits if you cut the floor pan at all there is some slope.. (you can trim or even add to those foam floor pans to suit your needs) So what I like to do is find the lowest point the floor meets the wall, and from there strike a level line around the shower. Then I attach some "shelves" usually scrap lumber to the wall at that point and tile up from there. When you return to do the bottom course you then can scribe and cut each tile to match whatever slope there might be in the floor.

Oh.. and when in a shower I almost always install tile with fast setting thinset. I use small batches and it lets me do a typical shower in a day as by the time you are up the wall the bottom or the floor is firmly set and you don't have to worry about tiles sagging. I am usually cutting tiles for the next round while a helper is cleaning things up and mixing another batch.

In reply to SVreX:

I agree that drywall has no business in a shower or bath enclosure.

In previous projects I have always used a cementuous tile backer for any ceramic installation, and the plan is to continue that way.

I just wanted to be sure there wasn't something special about the Schluter system that was going to be adversely affected by cementous backers.

Ive done several kit-to-tile conversions in bathrooms. Definitely use some kind of concrete based backer. Ive used Hardi products, and theyve worked very well. Ive also used Schluter (I like their floor base), and it is indeed great stuff.

The important part to remember is that a few extra minutes (or hours) to do it the right way is not only a great tip to have a bathroom look great. That the extra time is insurance for keeping the water where it belongs, and mold from being where it doesnt. DO NOT SKIP STEPS OR CUT CORNERS.

Take your time, be prepared for some long days, but its definitely possible with a few weekends. We turned a bathroom from a crappy 80s job, to studs, to a finished shower (using a fiberglass pan and tiled, concrete-board walls) in about 4 working days, plus another day for grout. Im an analyst in the grocery industry BTW, so im far from a pro.

I just did a tile tub/shower surround for the first time. If you use the proper membranes, drywall as a substrate isn't an issue; the Kerdi system lets you use drywall as a substrate and they will warranty it. It took me about 6 weekends doing small stuff every time. Ended up with a section of new subfloor, new tub/shower and new tile floors. Looks great and I know it was done right.

In reply to MINIzguy:

I really don't care about the warranty.

I've spent years doing mold remediation. Mold loves drywall. The slightest amount of moisture, and you've got a biological wonderland.

It doesn't even need a leak. The humidity alone is sufficient.

No drywall in a shower. No way.

In reply to MINIzguy:

BTW, I've done several hundred shower stalls. Many, many of them were to replace showers done by first timers who were absolutely confident they could do it over drywall.

After spending an extra couple thousand dollars to do it again, every single one of those owners would disagree with you.

SVreX wrote: In reply to MINIzguy: BTW, I've done several hundred shower stalls. Many, many of them were to replace showers done by first timers who were absolutely confident they could do it over drywall. After spending an extra couple thousand dollars to do it again, every single one of those owners would disagree with you.

My experience is right along these lines. I like redgard too but prefer kerdi or other membranes.

As the plumber that has to rough in and then go back and do the finish on many homeowner tile jobs, I have some advise. First, make sure the drain is supported by the floor. Nothing worse than stepping on the newly tiled shower stall drain and have in move downward cracking all the grout around it. Second, pay close attention to the valve and its trim kit. Test fit the trim to make sure the valve is set inside the wall the correct depth. Check it again after the board goes up. Keep in mind where your tile seams are going to fall in relation to the face plate. Make sure the tile seams are nice and flat where the face plate covers them. Lastly, make the hole in the board and tile absolutely as small as possible. You need to be able to get at the valve body to rebuild it but you don't need a giant hole barely covered by the trim plate. Trim plates have been getting smaller and smaller lately, especially Kohler trim. Just changed out a valve and the new valve trim wouldn't cover the old hole in the fiberglass. Had to install a big ole nasty looking goof plate behind it. I think Kohler is up to no good. There standard T&S valve body has something like 10 trim options. Most are under $100 and they are just barely larger than the mud guard on the rough in. They sell one kit thats larger if the tile guy does a bad job. Its $275. I'm convinced they did this on purpose. Supply house only carries an handful of trim kits, but they have a shelf full of the big expensive ones. Remove the mud guard and tile up as close as possible.

In reply to tr8todd:

Any recommendations for shower valves or shower heads?

Looking to do a "rain" type head and a handheld one with height adjustable wall bracket.

I like Moen, but I also remember seeing my uncles use symmons temptrol valve a lot on job sites.

I'm thinking single valve with a diverter to switch between the heads.

Moen moen moen. I refuse to buy any shower valve that isn't a moen. I get angry when customers buy non moen valves for me to install. there are other fine brands but literally the moen posi temp cartridge is the same for the last 30+ years and isn't changing anytime soon and they're simple to service in the unlikely event that it needs it. I can buy a new moen kit when there is already one there and just pop out the cartridge and do the trim and be good as new.

I have a rain head, 4 wall jets, and an adjustable head in my shower and I absolutely hate the diverter valve. Heads and jets can be replaced afterwards, but put good money into a quality diverter valve.

I've installed a Schluter Kerdi shower kit myself and also talked a pro remodeler into learning and install the same system for a new shower in my current basement. That was the 2nd Kerdi kit installation that I got to see up close and personal.

That contractor liked it and has used it two more times since doing mine. He is pricing another one for me right now - I think I will use the linear drain this time.

(I buy, live in, remodel and sell houses like it's my job. We're on house #9 in 20 years of marriage)

My opinion: the Schluter kit and instructions are terrific. It's like hanging wallpaper. Very straightforward.

Kerdi is a waterproofing membrane, so what's behind it only needs to be strong, because it won't be getting wet. I would recommend using concrete backer board anyway, and running the Kerdi all the way to the ceiling so water can't get behind it.

You can also buy Kerdi wall board pre-laminated with the membrane. Then you just hang the board and lap the seams and floor.

The foam curbs are great.

The best part is placing the Kerdi membrane over the sloped floor, so the only thing below the floor tile is thinset mortar.. very little room for mold to fester.

Contrast that with a traditional PVC pan and mud bed method, which eventually becomes saturated with water .. a never ending black mold factory between/below the shower floor tiles - especially around the drain.

If you have well water you don't want a Moen or any other type of valve with a cartridge. Personally I hate Moens. The only place I will even consider using them is in back to back installs in nursing homes or other places where there are 50 of them and the maintenance guy can have the tool and a box of cartridges. If you want a valve, a separate diverter valve, and then 2 separate points of distribution, then the cheapest best solution ids to order a Symmons on line. Grohe makes something similar but at 3 times the cost. You can piece together a Kohler valve body, trim kit, 2-3 way diverter body, trim kit, but you would have to hit a supply house with an idea of what you want. I end up taking out many of the rain heads I install infer the customers ask for them. Standing under them is like standing under a watering can. No pressure, just water falling on you. Pretty annoying when you are trying to rinse the soap off. Massachusetts recently added to the code that if you do 4 or more shower heads/body jets, you need a 3" drain. Problem is, nobody makes a 3" shower drain, so you end up running two 2" shower drains. Just did that at my sisters house. She has a 12 man hot tub and a private swimming pond. Built a shower room where you come into the house. 3 Kohler shower valves with diverters. Each valve gets a regular shower head and a hand held making 6 points of delivery.

I have done two myself, one tile walls over a tub and the other a full walk-in shower from a bare floor. I did not use the kit, choosing a DIY membrane instead. The one tip that I can give you is to use QUALITY mortar for the wall tiles. I started with whatever they had on the shelf at Lowes and it was crap. No amount of adjusting the mix would allow it to adhere a 12" square tile to the wall Everything just kept sliding down.

My wife works for Ardex and scolded me for not using their product and brought me home a bag of their stuff and the difference was night and day. It mixed so much better, instantly held the tiles in place, even to the ceiling, and has held up beautifully. I am associated, but can honestly say that it is the best.

I used drywall rated for wet installations and upgraded all lumber to pressure-treated. I can access the back of my walk-in shower through an unfinished closet and after three years there is no water penetration at all. Just follow the instructions and be patient. FWIW, my wife also scolded me for not using the Schluter products. All of her pro installers swear by it.

jstand wrote: only bathroom in the house remove the tub and replace it with a custom walk in shower

So I guess you're never selling the house?

SVreX wrote: In reply to MINIzguy: I really don't care about the warranty. I've spent years doing mold remediation. Mold loves drywall. The slightest amount of moisture, and you've got a biological wonderland. It doesn't even need a leak. The humidity alone is sufficient. No drywall in a shower. No way.

This. x1000.

If you ever want to question this, come take a look at my bathroom. Unless you have a mold allergy. In which case my house would probably kill you.

8 years ago I installed a $500 Lowes plastic corner shower unit in our master bath. The floor started cracking about 2 years in, and I fought it for a while before finally ripping it out last winter. I went down to the studs, put up concrete backer board, a Swanstone premade base in a bed of mortar, then I did subway tiles for the walls. We got a custom glass shower door to match, and it's done. I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out as I'm a rank amateur.

Here's an in-progress pic of the base and tile in place, before grout:

z31maniac wrote:

jstand wrote: only bathroom in the house remove the tub and replace it with a custom walk in shower

So I guess you're never selling the house?

Why do you say that?

People with kids want tubs, so deleting the only tub turns off a big portion of buyers. I have tub because kids.