He's one of "them." I say we string him up.
He's one of "them." I say we string him up.
lnlogauge said:In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :
Every single tech blog is covering this up? Good God man. That's a hell of a cover up/conspiracy just because you don't like the answer.
No, not a cover up, they just don't bite the hand that feeds them. It's like all the car mags saying domestics were good cars in the malaise era because that's who bought all the ads. That's not a conspiracy, that's capitalism.
Taken from the FB terms of service (bolded mine, colored text from FB):
"Device Information
As described below, we collect information from and about the computers, phones, connected TVs and other web-connected devices you use that integrate with our Products, and we combine this information across different devices you use. For example, we use information collected about your use of our Products on your phone to better personalize the content (including ads) or features you see when you use our Products on another device, such as your laptop or tablet, or to measure whether you took an action in response to an ad we showed you on your phone on a different device.
Information we obtain from these devices includes:
Device attributes: information such as the operating system, hardware and software versions, battery level, signal strength, available storage space, browser type, app and file names and types, and plugins.
Device operations: information about operations and behaviors performed on the device, such as whether a window is foregrounded or backgrounded, or mouse movements (which can help distinguish humans from bots).
Identifiers: unique identifiers, device IDs, and other identifiers, such as from games, apps or accounts you use, and Family Device IDs (or other identifiers unique to Facebook Company Products associated with the same device or account).
Device signals: Bluetooth signals, and information about nearby Wi-Fi access points, beacons, and cell towers.
Data from device settings: information you allow us to receive through device settings you turn on, such as access to your GPS location, camera or photos.
Network and connections: information such as the name of your mobile operator or ISP, language, time zone, mobile phone number, IP address, connection speed and, in some cases, information about other devices that are nearby or on your network, so we can do things like help you stream a video from your phone to your TV.
Cookie data: data from cookies stored on your device, including cookie IDs and settings. Learn more about how we use cookies in the Facebook Cookies Policy and Instagram Cookies Policy."
They take information from about "accounts you use". Accounts? That means, what, anything they want? Yes. Yes it does.
Funny, the above information had more text in it on December 26th. There's missing verbiage about collecting your contacts and SMS log history. That is gone now, but I haven't seen an updated TOU policy......
What about that camera:
"Things you and others do and provide.
Data with special protections: You can choose to provide information in your Facebook profile fields or Life Events about your religious views, political views, who you are "interested in," or your health. This and other information (such as racial or ethnic origin, philosophical beliefs or trade union membership) could be subject to special protections under the laws of your country."
Location information:
"Location-related information: We use location-related information-such as your current location, where you live, the places you like to go, and the businesses and people you're near-to provide, personalize and improve our Products, including ads, for you and others. Location-related information can be based on things like precise device location (if you've allowed us to collect it), IP addresses, and information from your and others' use of Facebook Products (such as check-ins or events you attend)."
Maybe the above is the reason why 48 states, and the fed government have filed lawsuits against Zuck? Nah, coincidence.
The above excerpts were taken from the FB TOU, I couldn't fine an IG TOU.
A funny, yet scary run down can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhSX7IzHkrE&t=536s
Straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.facebook.com/about/privacy/update
As described below, we collect information from and about the computers, phones, connected TVs and other web-connected devices you use that integrate with our Products, and we combine this information across different devices you use.
Data from device settings: information you allow us to receive through device settings you turn on, such as access to your GPS location, camera or photos.
So if you have given facebook permission to use your microphone (which is included in the camera), they have permission to use it, even if you aren't on it.
It can also include what you see through features we provide, such as our camera, so we can do things like suggest masks and filters that you might like, or give you tips on using camera format.
Is not the same as having full, uncontrolled access to the camera as you said. Every single thing you bolded is neither concerning or shocking.
In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :
Go break the internet. You figured out the secret.
Nothing to do with listening, nothing to do with ads. I asked for sources and neither or you can provide that other than your personal opinions. I'm done.
In reply to lnlogauge :
I don't know why you're so hard up trying to defend this practice. Of course no one gives a berkeley that the government does the same Damn thing because they aren't pushing ads at people, so I can almost understand it, but still. There is nothing defensible about any social media or the access they seem to want.
What I really don't understand is the companies that force employees to use social media to interact with each other.
In reply to lnlogauge :
" Our camera"
I'll counter with the fact that it also DOESN'T say that they wont. If they can, they will.
They do. Too many "coincidences".
"Our camera".
mtn (Forum Supporter) said:Yup. Any time I need to use messenger, I'll reinstall it, send/receive the messages, then delete it.
If I could get my extended family to use an email chain, I'd delete it all together.
If they only communicate via FB messenger, they aren't worth communicating with.
The only valid use of that program is for selling stuff because Craigslist is now dead.
Wow I seem to have opened up a hornets nest.
I started this one as FB really pissed me off here with this particular ad that I have no doubt was based on listening to a work conversation on a work computer. Also with the previous incident I mentioned that caused personal embarrassment about sending out the contact. I know every effing company uses, sells and manipulates your info, it's just FB seems particularly egregious in the what's and hows. Apple freaked me out the other day by suddenly giving me a scarily perfect memoji when I've never tried to set one up or wanted one. It obviously used my camera and pics to come up with one.
There are other things that are less upsetting, just a little creepy. Ever watching a movie on the TV, then you want to look up the Wiki on the movie for an actor/actress/date etc.? YOu can't get past the second letter in google without it offering the exact movie you are watching. I always assumed that was partly down to Netflix and Chrome both being on my phone, but it's not. Chrome is definitely listening all the time. I got a new phone the other week after I left my old one of the roof of the car and lost it at 85mph. First night home, I hadn't even downloaded the Netflix app so there is no connection between Netflix and the phone. We were watching Netflix on the TV and that exact thing happened. I started to type in the name of the movie and bang, second letter and it offers up the exact move as auto fill. It had to be listening to via the mic on my phone to know that.
ProDarwin said:If they only communicate via FB messenger, they aren't worth communicating with.
Sorry, my 80 year old mother in England is most certainly worth communicating with. She's freekingly intelligent and literate, was using computers in the 60's with punch cards working wing shape and aerofoil sections for Concord before I was conceived. But with no land line FB Messenger is the way we communicate. Sure, I could try and force her onto another app, but that's tough when it's the way she communicates with the rest of her friends and extended family.
Serious question I've been curious about for some time.
Would a mini faraday cage be able to block info from being sent or received? I'm not an electronics guy so I really don't know. I know they block some electro magnetic stuff but not sure exactly.
I know some folks use a belt-mounted case/carrier for their phone rather than just stuffing it into a pocket. if the case was a small faraday cage would that work? I realize that as soon as the phone was taken out and used it would be able to send and receive everything but some privacy from tracking info and networks you're near might be beneficial.
Wether listening physically via a microphone or listening via observing actions, searches, shared networks, location data and any other meta data available to them, we are being listened to.
I looked into this a few weeks ago because of a "coincidental ad" I came across. The answers I got back were much along the lines of what inlogauge was saying, in that the collated data and algorithms are getting so well fine tuned that it feels like our conversations are being tapped'
While I don't completely believe that we aren't being listened to, it would be pretty hard to hide a global eavesdropping operation without someone somewhere speaking out. That said, even if they aren't listening now, I will pretty much guarantee that they will be in the future. Privacy will only be further erroded, it's not just magically going to go back to the old days and our personal data is only going to become an increasingly more valuable commodity unfortunately.
I don't like it, I don't agree with it, but the options are to become a recluse luddite or try and find a way to work with it while controlling what I can.
In reply to barefootskater (Shaun) :
I believe so, to a degree. There was a case over here in australia a little while ago of a guy using a foil chip packet as a faraday's cage to ditch work so he could play golf.
Here is an article about it.
Edit: on a similar yet kind of unrelated note, my current wallet is rfid shielded. Basically every credit card here is rfid enabled, so it helps minimize the chances of being skimmed if I'm in a crowded place. Yes rfid skimming still somewhat rare, but it's a crime on the rise and it didn't cost me anything more to help protect myself from the potential of it happening.
Generally, I believe that it really is coincidence. I also believe that everyone has that "way too much coincidence" story. In total, I think that if you give them the access then they will take every byte that they can get from it to sell on for the glory of the almighty dollar. So yes, if apps on your phone have mic access then the safe assumption is that they are listening and looking for ad opportunities.
2 jobs ago I was working a manufacturing job and phones had to stay in the break room. I read a lot and was not quite getting by at the time and was reading with Kindle Unlimited. I read sci-fi and fantasy stuff, of the grade that is available for cheap/free. My coworkers were generally mid-30s to 40s with teen and pre-teen children. With all of this in mind I will pose but one question: Why did I, a single man with no children, start getting inundated with recommendations for books on raising difficult children? Maybe it was location based, my coworkers were looking up books and I got lumped in by proximity. Even if it's just that 'benign' that's still really close to listening in and makes me pretty itchy. Especially when you take into account just how naked we (on the whole) feel without our phones. Our phones are not our friends, they allow us to sell access to ourselves in order to scroll FB and play Candy Crush. We are the commodity.
When possible use a browser rather than an app. When I use FB, I use a particular browser that I only use for FB. Look at app permissions and trust that when they ask for camera, address book, location, etc... they will use/sell that data in ways that you have not imagined. Log Out. Clear Cookies. Close background apps. Nothing to hide? You are still being influenced, manipulated, and sold.
My wife believes all this and I don't until one day I randomly told her I need to buy a Rolex watch. Bam - ads on FB that freaked me out.
There's enough common anecdotes that it does add up. Happens in our house too. I threw away our gifted Alexa.
In reply to Crxpilot :
Yup, too many common anecdotes. If they can do something that gives them a product they got for free that they can sell, why wouldn't they?
Vajingo said:The way it ACTUALLY works is your phone listens to you and the network the phone is on then gets the data sent to everyone on that network. My wife and I have tested.
hell, one time I was playing Cliffs of Dover by Eric Johnson (call me a rock god?) Playing it on my guitar. No radio. Keep in mind, no tablature open. I then went to my computer to use it and, lo and behold, there, on google chrome, was an ad FOR LEARNING HOW TO PLAY CLIFFS OF DOVER!
I took it as a compliment, since the only device listening in my music room was my phone. That means my phone knew what song I was playing, and that means I was playing it accurately.
Or it was saying that you needed to be taught how to play it better!
Don't worry, once we all have the tracking vaccine, they won't need your phone data anymore.
lnlogauge said:If someone ever proved that facebook/google/amazon was listening to target adds, it would be a big deal. They haven't. I can't explain how that happened to you or anyone else Ive had this argument with, other than coincidence that you caught because of your suspicions. Its not hard to tell when a device is sending data back home. They aren't listening. Same with all of the smart home devices too. They listen for one word to wake up and start recording. thats it.
Oh man, thanks for the laughs from your posts in this thread.
Y'all are paranoid for a bunch of pretty smart people.
Here's the basics of how it advertising IDs work.
There's literally terraflops of computing power determining what ads to show you at any given moment. You just notice the ones that seem spot on at weird times.
Put a Pi-Hole on your home network. Run Firefox with uBlock Origin and content containers on your phone and computer. White GRM's static ads move on.
If you want to spend the time to thumb your nose at the soulless algorithms all seeing eye of Sauron, Adnauseam can help obscure your advertising fingerprint.
In reply to The0retical (Forum Supporter) :
It's not paranoia, it's Occum's Razor. What is the simplest explanation for big tech being able to target ads that are only spoken of? Terraflops of computing power triangulating the signals of every device around us sending tons of data over wifi connections and being analyzed by some AI or just the microphone is on? They all say that they use the camera and any other enabled setting such as GPS so it's not like it's some huge conspiracy, it's just another part of the phone. The only reason they stay quiet about is old-school wire-tapping laws, but it's not like it's a cover up.
In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :
So you think that plowing through the data generated by monitoring every electronic device in a household via audio or video, accounting for background noise, user, children and false positives then presenting the correct device with a relevant ad within seconds is easier than fingerprinting a couple of electronic devices then following them around the internet, with code embedded in share buttons willingly placed by operators of nearly every web site in existence, and guessing?
Let's revisit Occums Razor there because I literally described what big data analytics are used for do in the latter half.
All the algorithm needs to do is guess which ad to show based on collected data points. The ones that appear to be immediately relevant are just several of hundreds shown to you a day. They just catch your attention because of the timing coincidence. AKA they're "immediately relevant" which every advertiser wants.
Try running an AdWords campaign sometime. You can get pretty granular but you'll see it's really just designed to suck every dollar out of your budget that it can.
Facebook used to make it possible to target pretty close to specific users but that's been tweaked to work close to the same way as AdWords after they caught a wrist slap for their role in aiding housing discrimination.
If you want to try something to prove this, use a tool like track.this to open 100 different websites and screw with your advertiserID (which you can make generic via your Apple, Facebook and Google settings FYI.) The advertising algorithm will wig out based on the new data points. It will eventually go back to normal as your finger print is associated with more normal data, but it screws things up for a bit.
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